Are the Buffalo Bills the Dumbest Franchise in Sports?

[DaveSnuggerud]

This seems like a bad question, considering this is a discussion forum about the Buffalo Sabres.  The Bills currently look like geniuses compared with how far the hockey team has fallen.  I like Allen.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

We keep supporting them, irregardless.... So does that make us all dumb

 

That word isn't a word.  Where is Inky?

[Thorny]

They cited that it snowed when they visited him, in addition to their points about wind and rainy games. 

Southern California kids Brady and Rodgers seem to be doing fine in their respective weather cities, because they're good at qb. 

Also, Allen is from California too. 

 

But anyway, this is just another example in the long line of the old school check list, size, arm strength, grit, roll-out abilities, ability to execute the plays we give him to be able to succeed, mentality clashing with a more modern emphasis on pocket awareness, progressions, and creativity when your structure breaks down and impossible-to-plan-for things happen. Ideally, your QB has all of these traits. But one group will consistently draft Russell, Allen, Leaf, Boller, Losman (and fail) and also draft Favre, McNabb, Flacco, and guys like that. The other group will take Manning over Leaf, and prefer Matt Ryan to Brett Favre, and fail on guys whose names we usually forget because they don't generate a lot of mainstream media fanfare. 

 

It's obvious which way I lean, but like all things, how staunchly the two sides represent themselves and see the other doesn't necessarily reflect accuracy of success rate. Like it or not, we're tied into Allen, and it isn't the most absurd selection on the face of the planet. We all knew it was a legitimate possibility. We just need to see how it all plays out, and hope like hell they get it worked out. 

 

I've got almost all of my frustration out now. Even as the old-school mentality goes, Allen is hard to like, because of how well correlated his bad tape is to his bad numbers. But he's that classic old school guy, and could be teachable. You settle his feet down, you see his accuracy improve, and those isolated moments of raw talent become more frequent and are less-often punctuated with baffling throws and decisions. But you have committed to a massive project and need to be all in on him for the time being, and it is going to take a lot of work. 

And of course, we'll all be here watching whenever it starts, as I'm not sure he's NFL ready in September.

Gross, Favre doesn’t deserve to be saddled and grouped together with names like that.

[Randall Flagg]

Gross, Favre doesn’t deserve to be saddled and grouped together with names like that.

He's definitely the peak example of old-school thinking being right over modern takes. That's what I meant that to be, two different "lists" of the types of failures and successes each group would have, and he's obviously a success.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

No.

 

Like dysentery, this too shall pass.

[Thorny]

He's definitely the peak example of old-school thinking being right over modern takes. That's what I meant that to be, two different "lists" of the types of failures and successes each group would have, and he's obviously a success.

I know, just bugging you. Favre is my favourite NFL player and I get a twitch when I see his name followed by the likes of Flacco. Or even worse, “equal number of championships-winning” Trent Dilfer.

 

3 consecutive MVPs, baby! At a time when QBs were still expected to be able to take a hit or two.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

I know, just bugging you. Favre is my favourite NFL player and I get a twitch when I see his name followed by the likes of Flacco. Or even worse, “equal numbers of championships-winning” Trent Dilfer.

 

3 consecutive MVPs, baby! At a time when QBs were still expected to be able to take a hit or two.

Brett's the kind of guy that gives me hope for Allen. 

 

The reservation I have is that I guarantee his college tape looked better with respect to the things I've already listed thirty times than Allen's does. The reaction here was so strong because Allen's tape on those things was often-times jaw-droppingly bad relative to what you expect from good college QBs with NFL potential, even if you can still build a nice highlight package for him. And then when you look to stats to help find reassurance, you only get confirmation of what you saw on tape. I'm willing to bet that this wasn't the case for Favre.

[Thorny]

Brett's the kind of guy that gives me hope for Allen.

The reservation I have is that I guarantee his college tape looked better with respect to the things I've already listed thirty times than Allen's does. The reaction here was so strong because Allen's tape on those things was often-times jaw-droppingly bad relative to what you expect from good college QBs with NFL potential, even if you can still build a nice highlight package for him. And then when you look to stats to help find reassurance, you only get confirmation of what you saw on tape. I'm willing to bet that this wasn't the case for Favre.

The thing about Favre is he was actually accurate as hell. He just made plenty of bad decisions.

 

He also had a great mind for the game. But he played the game for fun, which is very rare.

 

He’ll always be the Gunslinger.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

For what it's worth, Beane said that "Terry and Kim were very involved in the whole process."

I want to know who, exactly, is going to be coaching Allen into a functional player? Who on the Bills staff is going to be doing this?

Sean McDermott

Our QB coach whose name I don't know, but who was a WR coach for 20 years, I've read.

Brian Daboll, a guy whose time as an NFL coordinator was terrible, but who was supposedly sought after by Bellichick too. (I"ll never learn how to spell his name right)
AJ McCarron and Nathan Peterman as "vet leaders"

I'm not telling you how to feel about that, but that's what it is at this point.

-------------------------------------

 

I honestly hope that it was Pegula. Because Beane spent more time talking about Buffalo winters and big hands than actual QB traits that lead to success. If our freaking general manager comes to a conclusion based on bad weather we sometimes get, but usually games here are 65 and sunny, after all this time, then we have problems. However, those do seem like uneducated talking points that are perfectly in line with Terry's demeanor and rational that he could build behind wanting a particular quarterback.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[Wyldnwoody44]

Clearly he was talking about the home playoff games we are going to have, those winter condition are where Josh is really gonna shine......

[JujuFish]

I'm just as upset as the next guy about the Allen pick, but do we really need to make a thread like this about it?

 

Or is this going to be the negativity thread so we can keep it out of the main Bills thread?  That might not be a bad idea.

[BagBoy]

That word isn't a word.  Where is Inky?

 

Very true.  It's being used as an adverb in Woody's post, so it should be irregardlessly!

[Brawndo]

Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills

 

Zay Jones and Kelvin Benjamin at wide receiver. Charles Clay at tight end. An offensive line of Dion Dawkins (promising), Vlad Ducasse, Ryan Groy/Russell Bodine, John Miller and Jordan Mills. Woof. And then the team traded away the first pick in the third round to move up for Tremaine Edmunds. Edmunds is a good linebacker, but using two picks that don’t help your offense to draft a linebacker is a little tough considering the Bills situation.

 

Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll is supposedly running an Erhardt-Perkins system that typically asks a quarterback to win with mental processing, decision-making and ball placement from the pocket. None of those things are Allen’s strengths, at all. Daboll will likely dumb things down some, but what I expect from the system isn’t a great fit for Allen.

 

Allen also needs massive development and time to sit and learn in the NFL. But A.J. McCarron and Nate Peterman are the only other quarterbacks on the Bills roster, and they aren’t exactly experienced veterans at the position. It’s arguably the worst situation in the NFL for Allen, and the Bills traded up to acquire him with Josh Rosen on the board. Franchise-altering mistake in my opinion. We’ll see if I’m right.

 

From Jon Leyard NDT Scouting

[Jsixspd]

Wonder if Brandon, while sitting at the drafting table,  was whispering "draft a QB regardless" - because it would sell tickets this fall?    Brandon -  "Don't worry - if it doesn't pan out, we'll come up with another schtick to lure people into the stadium by fall of 2019"

Seems like a very poor decision given the lack of any veteran QB in the lineup from which this kid could learn, if he does have potential. 

From what we've seen of Peterman, he's atrocious.  McCarrion is more of an unknown quantity - but his stats don't suggest he's the next Tom Brady either. 

And having the kid out there starting in one or more of the first few games..... which sadly is a possibility - remember EJ Manuel?  ..... would be more evidence of the Brandon-Effect - short term ticket sales pop with no long term strategy for building a championship franchise.  

Allen could be yet another epic 1st round draft disaster for the Bills like Manuel or Maybin, especially if he isn't developed properly.  Maybe Terry Pegula will have another apology statement ready to share with fans in spring 2019?    

[Eleven]

Wonder if Brandon, while sitting at the drafting table,  was whispering "draft a QB regardless" - because it would sell tickets this fall?    Brandon -  "Don't worry - if it doesn't pan out, we'll come up with another schtick to lure people into the stadium by fall of 2019"

 

Seems like a very poor decision given the lack of any veteran QB in the lineup from which this kid could learn, if he does have potential. 

 

From what we've seen of Peterman, he's atrocious.  McCarrion is more of an unknown quantity - but his stats don't suggest he's the next Tom Brady either. 

 

And having the kid out there starting in one or more of the first few games..... which sadly is a possibility - remember EJ Manuel?  ..... would be more evidence of the Brandon-Effect - short term ticket sales pop with no long term strategy for building a championship franchise.  

 

Allen could be yet another epic 1st round draft disaster for the Bills like Manuel or Maybin, especially if he isn't developed properly.  Maybe Terry Pegula will have another apology statement ready to share with fans in spring 2019?    

 

They always were going to "draft a QB regardless."  It's trading up for this particular quarterback that is the reason for criticism.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Eleven

[Jsixspd]

They always were going to "draft a QB regardless."  It's trading up for this particular quarterback that is the reason for criticism.

Yeah, but if the right QB isn't available, it seems like a foolish decision to forge ahead with drafting a QB; that's the path to another EJ Manuel;  the better strategy would be using the draft to beef up other positions, and seek to hire a veteran QB in the interim;  maybe the right one comes available in the 2019 draft?    Yeah, a QB is a burning need for the team, but foolishly selecting another EJ Manuel is pointless.   

 

Pointless, unless building a solid post season team long term is a secondary consideration to selling tickets in Fall 2018.  

 

Kind of like when Rex Ryan was hired as HC.

 

 

[Randall Flagg]

Yeah, but if the right QB isn't available, it seems like a foolish decision to forge ahead with drafting a QB; that's the path to another EJ Manuel;  the better strategy would be using the draft to beef up other positions, and seek to hire a veteran QB in the interim;  maybe the right one comes available in the 2019 draft?    Yeah, a QB is a burning need for the team, but foolishly selecting another EJ Manuel is pointless.   

 

Pointless, unless building a solid post season team long term is a secondary consideration to selling tickets in Fall 2018.  

 

Kind of like when Rex Ryan was hired as HC.

 

 

It's pretty clear to me that Allen was their right QB, they didn't just panic and pick one because they felt like they had to.

[TrueBlueGED]

It's pretty clear to me that Allen was their right QB, they didn't just panic and pick one because they felt like they had to.

 

Yup. For better or worse, Allen was their guy.

[dudacek]

In terms of technically working the draft, Beane did a fine job targeting and acquiring the players he wanted at his two positions of greatest need. It's whether the players are worth the effort he put into acquiring them that is in question.

[TrueBlueGED]

In terms of technically working the draft, Beane did a fine job targeting and acquiring the players he wanted at his two positions of greatest need. It's whether the players are worth the effort he put into acquiring them that is in question.

Of course, the wisdom in "getting your guys" has been shown to be highly suspect when it involves giving up significant draft capital. Specific players aside, this is the second year in a row I haven't cared for Beane using mid-round picks to trade up.

[Flatlander]

If the question was "Does Their Fan Base Think the Buffalo Bills are the Dumbest Franchise in Sports?" the answer would be yes.

 

Because the there are some concerns with Allen and his accuracy that could potentially cause him to fail, the majority of the fan base is absolutely certain he's going to be a bust. While he may end up a wasted pick, it's far from being set in stone. The same with Rosen. He may be great or he may be another Cutler. Who knows?

 

There is this mentality that comes from past failures that whoever is running the team is an idiot.

[JujuFish]

If the question was "Does Their Fan Base Think the Buffalo Bills are the Dumbest Franchise in Sports?" the answer would be yes.

 

Because the there are some concerns with Allen and his accuracy that could potentially cause him to fail, the majority of the fan base is absolutely certain he's going to be a bust. While he may end up a wasted pick, it's far from being set in stone. The same with Rosen. He may be great or he may be another Cutler. Who knows?

 

There is this mentality that comes from past failures that whoever is running the team is an idiot.

 

More like 3 wasted picks and Cordy Glenn.  And concerns aren't just with his accuracy.

[PASabreFan]

Just heard on GR that Rosen was asked what religion he is and he said atheist.

[Eleven]

Just heard on GR that Rosen was asked what religion he is and he said atheist.

 

I don't know why they ask questions like this. It's annoying, to say the very least. Would they have asked this question of a quarterback named "Kelly" instead of "Rosen"?  And would Kelly have answered the same (before his son was ill and he found religion)?  And who cares?

 

And I say this as someone who is faithful.  This is just so stupid.

[SwampD]

Just heard on GR that Rosen was asked what religion he is and he said atheist.

Who asked him and why?