WildCard Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 No, that one season is not exclusive of a tanking rebuild. I never claimed it to be. You're putting words in my mouth. However, the last 5 seasons in totality..... that's not typical of a rebuild of any kind. Quite frankly, we've out Edmontoned Edmonton. We're in uncharted territory for how to screw up a franchise. At least when Old man Wirtz did it, it was because he was giving OSP lessons on how to bleed a pig. But why were we on the trajectory of a normal rebuild, we made a big leap from one season to the next, supposedly turned the corner, but then fell down so hard these last two seasons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) But why were we on the trajectory of a normal rebuild, we made a big leap from one season to the next, supposedly turned the corner, but then fell down so hard these last two seasons? I'm not convinced we were on any normal trajectory. It never felt like we were turning a corner to me. Complaints of players not playing to the game plan were frequent then too. Don’t forget that there were 2-3 teams angling for Matthews that season. Any finish above 29 was smoke and mirrors that year. Edited April 10, 2018 by We've Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) I'm not convinced we were on any normal trajectory. It never felt like we were turning a corner to me. Complaints of players not playing to the game plan were frequent then too. Don’t forget that there were 2-3 teams angling for Matthews that season. Any finish above 29 was smoke and mirrors that year. I think those complaints started happening around December of that season, not before it "Our mindset is playoffs," says a healthy Tyler Ennis, back with the team after recovering from multiple concussions last season. Head coach Dan Bylsma was quoted in the offseason saying the Sabres' new goal would be 95 points, fourteen more than they earned this past year. "Things have changed," says Josh Gorges. "You look at the quality of guys we've brought in, they really help in areas of need." The Sabres traded for defenseman Dmitriy Kulikov and signed free-agent forward Kyle Okposo during the offseason. For Okposo, it's a chance to take another young team deep into the postseason. "There is a light at the end of the tunnel," he said. "I think we can get there faster than I did with the Islanders." http://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/sabres-report-to-training-camp-with-one-expectation-playoffs/1042966498 The Matthews year was actually one of the better ones as far as basis level competition goes. Bottom 3 teams since 2014-2015 2017 Buffalo: 62 Ottawa: 67 Arizona: 70 2016 Colorado: 48 Vancouver: 69 Arizona: 70 2015 Toronto: 69 Edmonton: 70 Vancouver: 75 Edited April 10, 2018 by Jokertecken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 I'm not convinced we were on any normal trajectory. It never felt like we were turning a corner to me. Complaints of players not playing to the game plan were frequent then too. Don’t forget that there were 2-3 teams angling for Matthews that season. Any finish above 29 was smoke and mirrors that year. I struggle to see where this comes from. In 15-16, only 1 team finished below 70 points, and they hit 69. There were 6 teams in the 70s. Just as many teams below 80 as the year before. This year there were 9 teams below 80 and 2 below 70. That team finished 22nd in the NHL, and it wasn't because of some mystical rush to the bottom of the standings. They were what their record said - an 81 point team. Which games that season were the gimme games against teams salivating about Matthews? The 4-1 late March defeat at the hands of the tanking Leafs? Where's the evidence that the standings were worse than usual at the bottom? That seems completely made up to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Right. 2-3 teams angling for Auston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) Right. 2-3 teams angling for Auston. But these last two seasons the lowest 3 teams had worse point totals. So I don't see why teams tanking for Matthews matters I'll also never understand how it's alright that the Leafs did it, but it was a mistake for us. Edited April 10, 2018 by Jokertecken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) Right. 2-3 teams angling for Auston. So because the bottom 2-3 teams were better than almost any other year you could pick out, the Sabres finishing anywhere above 2nd last was smoke and mirrors? The Canucks literally made two deadline ACQUISITIONS that season, along with trading a disappointing center at the time for Brandon Sutter, who they signed to a five year contract as part of a core that had valuable experience in a good locker room. And the Oilers were most certainly not trying to get Matthews the season after adding McDavid. The Oilers added Zack Kassian and Patrick Maroon at that deadline, as well as trading a 1st and a 2nd before the season for Griffin Reinhart. They were trying (and failing miserably) to win that season Edited April 10, 2018 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 (edited) Apparently they all checked out right around Christmas http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/23092756/ryan-oreilly-says-buffalo-sabres-adopted-mindset-being-ok-losing Anyone who thinks we can rebound from a slow start next year is insane. For a normal team sure, but we need to come out hot and get some confidence, or we're ######...again The article and quote isn’t saying the team necessarily checked out at that time, it’s saying that they knew they were “out of it” standings wise re: making the playoffs, by Christmas. Now that might mean the same thing, but it could just mean they acknowledged the reality of the situation. That is to say, I didn’t see all the guys stop trying at that point. Reinhart started his turnaround at the outdoor game I think, for one. Eichel got hurt shortly after unfortunately. Edited April 10, 2018 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 The problem with Risto remains the same problem that DD had with Risto. To much ice time. With literally no one else to eat up minutes, DD and Wowie have had no choice but to over play the kid. Jbot made a miracle and got Scandella. Now he needs to someone find at least one more top 4 D. Not sure how, but he needs to find at least one. We have to get his minutes down to 23-24 a night. Not 28-30 minutes. He wears down and makes mistakes. While I don't think Risto is a No.1 D, I think he is an excellent PP QB, is physical, skates well for a bigger guy and overall is a upper end top 4 D. He's not Hedman, but how many guys are? With Risto and Scandella we are 1/2 of the way to a really solid top 4. Our bottom pairing is also shaping up with Nelson, Guhle and McCabe all part of that mix. Maybe Guhle continues his development and becomes a top 4 guy, but that is asking a lot for next season. If this team is really going to take a step forward, Jbot's top task to improve the D. I actually believe if we just stick to our internal guys, our offense will improve next season, but everything in Wowie's system keys off mobile talented D. Fix the D and we help fix both the offense and lower the amount of rubber thrown at our goalies. Spot on. Imagine getting Dahlin. Would be a get out of jail free card for Botterill. Still would need on more top 4 guy, but, damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 I'm sorry, but ROR has not won at the pro level. What did he do when Murray gave him the huge overpriced contract? Got drunk and crashed his car into a Tim Horton's. What a leader! No, he can go along with his losing lost my love of hockey attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 So because the bottom 2-3 teams were better than almost any other year you could pick out, the Sabres finishing anywhere above 2nd last was smoke and mirrors? The Canucks literally made two deadline ACQUISITIONS that season, along with trading a disappointing center at the time for Brandon Sutter, who they signed to a five year contract as part of a core that had valuable experience in a good locker room. And the Oilers were most certainly not trying to get Matthews the season after adding McDavid. The Oilers added Zack Kassian and Patrick Maroon at that deadline, as well as trading a 1st and a 2nd before the season for Griffin Reinhart. They were trying (and failing miserably) to win that season I was thinking Columbus for the other team vying for Matthews. And it wasn't as much Buffalo losing to tanking teams that padded wins. ti was more teams that just weren't very good that year so Buffalo didn't look as bad comparatively as the other 4 seasons in that stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 @aalexnil Johan Larsson says he is tired of the situation in Buffalo. #Sabres https://t.co/pTGxBSqaqJ https://twitter.com/aalexnil/status/983666922188427267?s=19 "Tedious season. Again. Third season in a row like this." On contract: "We have to se now what they say after the season. I'm tired of the sitatution as it is right now". #Sabres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Columbus? I don't recall that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Coaching needs to change. Players don't lose passion just because. Psshhhh. It was Bylsma. It’s Housley. (Hint: It’s not the coach.) Risto seems to be an obvious target from all that I've heard. Yep. Fwiw, Hamilton posited as much yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Psshhhh. It was Bylsma. It’s Housley. (Hint: It’s not the coach.) Yep. Fwiw, Hamilton posited as much yesterday. I think Risto is just kinda...dumb. He's good at eating minutes. But I don't think there's much else going on there. He certainly isn't developing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 I think Risto is just kinda...dumb. He's good at eating minutes. But I don't think there's much else going on there. He certainly isn't developing. Whoever told him skating with a mouthful of peanut butter was a good idea needs to go. This has Costanza written all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 @aalexnil Johan Larsson says he is tired of the situation in Buffalo. #Sabres https://t.co/pTGxBSqaqJ https://twitter.com/aalexnil/status/983666922188427267?s=19 "Tedious season. Again. Third season in a row like this." On contract: "We have to se now what they say after the season. I'm tired of the sitatution as it is right now". #Sabres At some point we have to consider that these guys aren’t just sad sacks and that this organization has managed to cook up something extremely toxic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Why ? IMO, I think knocking the crap out of them in camp sends a message that we're gonna work hard all year. And I don't think the season could've been any worse. There are plenty of guys that bust their arse in the offseason and come to camp ready to work. They get paid for the whole season, not just games. Why? Because that's not how it works these days. There's no other way to explain it. The season very well could have been worse. If they continued their pattern of winning and play that they showed in October - November the season would have been that much worse. A lot of players can bust their ass all day long but that won't make them good hockey players. Things were pretty lax in the 70s, if the 60s were anything to go by: http://dennis-kane.com/an-inside-look-at-a-1960s-leafs-training-camp-invitation/ Fair enough, but the concept is that you could go Iron Mike on players at one point and it doesn't work like that today. Apparently they all checked out right around Christmas http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/23092756/ryan-oreilly-says-buffalo-sabres-adopted-mindset-being-ok-losing Anyone who thinks we can rebound from a slow start next year is insane. For a normal team sure, but we need to come out hot and get some confidence, or we're ######...again Funny, they actually started playing better and winning more then. So, for all the checking out they did it's amazing what happened. Season Opener to 12/25/17 - 9-20-0-7 record, 30th in the league to Arizona. Dead last in GF 3rd worst in GA (trailing Arizona and Islanders) 12/25/17 - end of season 16-25-0-5, 29th best record in the league (Rangers and Canadiens were worse) 25th in GF 5th worst in GA Interestingly enough, the Coyotes went from worst in GA to 6th best in the same span) They might have checked out, but they started winning more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 Whoever told him skating with a mouthful of peanut butter was a good idea needs to go. This has Costanza written all over it. Jerry: What's with all the peanut butter George? George: I'm increasing my lung capacity, Jerry! I told Susanne [a party clown] I could blow up a hundred balloons in 10 minutes and now she wants me to help her at a kids party! Jerry: A kids party! George, you don't know anything about kids! later... Elaine: What happened to Susanne, George? George: Oh, that's over. Jerry: What? Why? George: I sneezed peanut butter all over a kid... Elaine: Ohhh... George: ...he was allergic. His face puffed right up! Jerry: Like a balloon? George: LIKE A BALLOON! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 At some point we have to consider that these guys aren’t just sad sacks and that this organization has managed to cook up something extremely toxic. I'm pretty sure this has been obvious for over a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 I think Risto is just kinda...dumb. He's good at eating minutes. But I don't think there's much else going on there. He certainly isn't developing. Yep. As a box of rocks. Thing is: Ray Borque was reputedly one of the dumbest mofos you've ever met. He seemed to do okay with the hockey. OTOH, you can be a dummy, but have a high hockey IQ. Risto really seems to lack the latter. Our d-corps is in absolute shambles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 I'm pretty sure this has been obvious for over a year Yup. And it still doesn’t change the fact that most of these guys “speaking up” are some of the biggest contributors to the terrible on ice product. Larsson, Johnson...these guys are looking to save face, and players of their ability being regular rostered players illuminates the issue itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 I think Risto is just kinda...dumb. He's good at eating minutes. But I don't think there's much else going on there. He certainly isn't developing. Well I'm sure he's no rocket scientist, but he's no Moose Dupont either, and Moose won 2 cups :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Jerry: What's with all the peanut butter George? George: I'm increasing my lung capacity, Jerry! I told Susanne [a party clown] I could blow up a hundred balloons in 10 minutes and now she wants me to help her at a kids party! Jerry: A kids party! George, you don't know anything about kids! later... Elaine: What happened to Susanne, George? George: Oh, that's over. Jerry: What? Why? George: I sneezed peanut butter all over a kid... Elaine: Ohhh... George: ...he was allergic. His face puffed right up! Jerry: Like a balloon? George: LIKE A BALLOON! Better. Risto has a really nice shoehorn though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacque Richard Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Well I'm sure he's no rocket scientist, but he's no Moose Dupont either, and Moose won 2 cups :)lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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