GDT: Dallas Stars @ Buffalo Sabres, 1/20/2018, 1pm ET, MSG

[Jsixspd]

I haven't watched the Sabres in a long time - but I decided to give it a try today.  Turned it off after 4 minutes of game time.  

The Sabres looked horribly uncoordinated and inept in the 4 minutes of ice time I did watch -  poor passing, turnovers, and of course sloppy goal tending by Lehner that gave up the first of his 4 in 30 minutes.  

So now, 3 weeks thru January, the Sabres have earned only 2 of 16 points.   That is horrendous.  

Bylsma was a mistake -  but the Sabres have definitely gone waaaayyyy  downhill under the helm of Housley.  At this rate they'd be mathematically eliminated by late February/early March.  

[PASabreFan]

Sad to say Id rather have Rolston then Phil.

 

Im dying to be dead wrong about Housley but I don't see it from him at all.

I just googled Ron to see what's he doing, and Ron Rolston Gardening Gloves was the second search result. (He's an assistant on the U.S. Olympic team.)

 

I'm sorry, but there isn't some permanent force of nature that has transcended a complete roster and management turnover. The team is just bad. It was poorly constructed for today's NHL, the mix of players is not appropriately complementary, and we drafted poorly for a decade.

My first instinct was to agree with you that the funk of the tank should be long gone. But I keep coming back to the first thought any player would have when getting traded to Buffalo or considering a FA offer: stink, stank, stunk. You're a Seinfeld fan. Usually the O goes with the B, but not this time. This franchise has BBO.

 

winning breeds winning. the sabres used to have a winning franchise until Pegula showed up.

You might get some flack on this, but in reality the Golisano years look like salad days compared to the Pegula Error. The Sabres won the division in 2010 and most of us bitched about it!

 

dale McCourt

I seem to recall Ric Seiling spending an inordinate amount of time writhing on the ice.

 

I don’t have the answer. I think it’s a complex mix of too many passengers and poor leadership and the talent issue intertwines with each. To be more specific as it applies to the team at this very moment:

 

1) Our ownership historically has coddled the players and helped create an environment where losing is tolerated.

2) Our GM is playing a long game in his plan to fix the mistakes of the previous regime.

3) Our coach is focused on a positive reinforcement development plan aimed at the small handful of players that will be here in a few years; too many of the rest don’t expect to be back and have no incentive to buy in.

4) Our coach (and, I believe, our GM) prefers a style of play not well-suited to the talent at hand.

5) Our veteran leadership Okposo, Pominville, Gorges haven’t been good enough for their example to resonate in the room.

6) The young veterans that should be our leaders - Kane, O’Reilly, Lehner, Bogosian - are ill-suited to that role.

7) Our best young talents -Reinhart, Risto and Eichel - have yet to show the maturity to seize leadership, although we are seeing signs from Eichel. On the ice, Jack has been very good, Risto OK and Reinhart bad.

8) Our second wave of young players - the guys you hope show Improvement like Beaulieu, Antipin, McCabe, Girgensons, Larsson, Rodrigues - have been completely unproductive, and in most cases not NHL calibre. Mostly talent, partly environment.

9) Our third wave of youngsters -Ullmark, Guhle, Smith, Nylander, Baptiste, Bailey, Fasching - has been deliberately shielded from the NHL mess by our GM in a bid to eliminate the environment concern

10) The group our GM brought in to shield them - Pouliot, Wilson, Nolan, Josefson, Falk, Johnson,Tennyson, Scandella - has largely been bad as well. With the exception of Scandella, they are journeymen fringe players just happy to be collecting NHL paycheques. All teams have them we have too many of them.

11) Our goalie has been mostly good, sometimes bad, but never good enough to win; he also does not seem to have the mental makeup that inspires confidence in the team in front of him.

 

In short, our depth of talent is bad, our top talent is not good enough to overcome that and it is all playing in an environment where losing has long been expected.

 

Most posters are responding to seven years of ineptitude. Botterill has had seven months to fix it.

He has a lot to fix and I think it will done incrementally.

 

He’s already decided to move on from Kane and most of us suspect Lehner. oReilly and Bogosian are open questions.

He’s figuring out which young pieces are worth developing around Jack and Risto and the older guys are just filling holes.

 

We will see 10 different players in next years starting lineup, and, unlike this year’s a number will actually be faces Botterill hopes will be here for more than cup of coffee.

 

Unlike the rest of us, JBot hasn’t been suffering for years.

Like it or not, this year is about evaluation for him. His team will start taking shape next year.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...

Edited January 20, 2018 by PASabreFan

[Randall Flagg]

How are we on pace for more points and wins this year, when we don't have more of those than at this point in that season?

Because that team finished with 54 and we're on something like a 57-58 point pace. Things aren't adding up right now just because there are 36 games left when who knows what will happen, both in general and with respect to the path that that season took. 

I just googled Ron to see what's he doing, and Ron Rolston Gardening Gloves was the second search result. (He's an assistant on the U.S. Olympic team.)

 

My first instinct was to agree with you that the funk of the tank should be long gone. But I keep coming back to the first thought any player would have when getting traded to Buffalo or considering a FA offer: stink, stank, stunk. You're a Seinfeld fan. Usually the O goes with the B, but not this time. This franchise has BBO.

 

You might get some flack on this, but in reality the Golisano years look like salad days compared to the Pegula Error. The Sabres won the division in 2010 and most of us bitched about it!

 

I seem to recall Ric Seiling spending an inordinate amount of time writhing on the ice.

 

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...

We had the 4th best winning percentage of all 30 NHL franchises when the Pegulas bought the team. We've dropped to 8th and will soon be 9th. 

 

Keep in mind that the sample size is ~80 games times almost 50 years. The fact that we've dropped so far in just 6 years is astounding statistically. 

 

Edit: this should be 7th, and soon 8th. Not fair to count Vegas in that analysis. 

 

Edit again: Points percentage, can't find raw win percentage and don't feel like calculating it. It's sunny out. I need to do what I said I was going to do. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Randall Flagg

[eman]

I haven't watched the Sabres in a long time - but I decided to give it a try today.  Turned it off after 4 minutes of game time.  

 

The Sabres looked horribly uncoordinated and inept in the 4 minutes of ice time I did watch -  poor passing, turnovers, and of course sloppy goal tending by Lehner that gave up the first of his 4 in 30 minutes.  

 

So now, 3 weeks thru January, the Sabres have earned only 2 of 16 points.   That is horrendous.  

 

Bylsma was a mistake -  but the Sabres have definitely gone waaaayyyy  downhill under the helm of Housley.  At this rate they'd be mathematically eliminated by late February/early March.  

 

Totally in agreement with your thoughts. I believe Phil is a horrible mistake now. I had high hopes for him but not anymore. I do believe regardless of the impending player turnover, we will not see a Sabres club finish over 0.500 to finish a season under Housley's guidance. Feel free to disagree with my thoughts but it is a strong feeling I have that Phil just isn't ready to be a head coach yet. 

[Tondas]

I think Phil is a good example of the Peter Principle.  Being a good assistant was his ceiling.  A head coach he is not.

[bob_sauve28]

This is, IMO, the worst Sabres team. Ever.  There is talent but nothing meshes.  Undisciplined play.  No team cohesiveness. No focus of purpose.  Sloppy passing.  Mental errors.  The list goes on.  Galling is that an expansion team will make the play offs this season.  The tank results are not looking good.  Another tank to make up for it?

 

I'd fire Housley. Coaches need to get fired at times like this

[eman]

If I were running the Sabres, Housley would be unemployed by the end of the weekend.

 

I know the team has limitations but the regression is stunningly bad.

 

When you miss Bylsma that means its a done deal.

 

Fire Phil and let the rebuild be done right.

 

 

I second that emotion! We are wasting valuable time with Phil at the helm. I too, am not willing to see what he can do with a different lineup. My patience with Phil left a long time ago. I believe this club will go an entire decade without making the playoffs and that is shameful and yes, the fan base deserves a hell of a lot better. Bylsma does look like "Coach of the Year" material compared to Philly.

[Tondas]

Maybe fire Housley at the end of this disaster season and promote Chris Taylor and about 5 Amerks.  He seems to have a winning touch.

[miles]

Maybe fire Housley at the end of this disaster season and promote Chris Taylor and about 5 Amerks.  He seems to have a winning touch.

 

this honestly doesnt sound too bad to me

[LGR4GM]

I couldn't find an overreaction gif appropriate for the Fire Phil Fan Club.

[darksabre]

I couldn't find an overreaction gif appropriate for the Fire Phil Fan Club.

Right?

[eman]

I couldn't find an overreaction gif appropriate for the Fire Phil Fan Club.

 

10 years out of the playoffs, especially if they keep Phil as head coach, count it!

[LGR4GM]

10 years out of the playoffs, especially if they keep Phil as head coach, count it!

Instead of "count it" you should have said "believe me folks" because just like when it gets said elsewhere, I immediately don't believe you.

[dudacek]

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln...

It doesn’t have to be as bad as it seems.

 

The removal of Kane and Lehner creates a leadership void in the room that Jack, allied with Housley steps into.

The team rallies around the likeable Ullmark in a way they didn’t or couldn’t for Lehner. Okposo is a leader on and off the ice.

The mercenaries and some of those tired of losing move on.

The room issues clear up.

 

Better kids and mercenaries - with higher expectations - graduate from Rochester, or are acquired in trade or by free agency.

The depth issues clear up.

 

I wish it was that simple, but it happens every year and our cupboard isn’t bare.

We’re a long way from contending, but becoming competitive isn’t that hard.

With some luck, it can happen as soon as next year.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Mick O’Manly

[darksabre]

It doesn’t have to be as bad as it seems.

 

The removal of Kane and Lehner creates a leadership void in the room that Jack, allied with Housley steps into.

The team rallies around the likeable Ullmark in a way they didn’t or couldn’t for Lehner. Okposo is a leader on and off the ice.

The mercenaries and some of those tired of losing move on.

The room issues clear up.

 

Better kids and mercenaries - with higher expectations - graduate from Rochester, or are acquired in trade or by free agency.

The depth issues clear up.

 

We’re a long way from contending, but becoming competitive isn’t that hard.

With some luck, it can happen as soon as next year.

Good post.

[bunomatic]

Missed this one. Score ?

[eman]

Instead of "count it" you should have said "believe me folks" because just like when it gets said elsewhere, I immediately don't believe you.

 

You won't have to. Just watch Sportschannel or open your local sports page or nhl.com. The story will unfold there. I' m not sure what others see in Housley at this point  Again, feel free to call me out when Philly turns this mess around. Can he do it before the 10 year playoff drought happens? I' m betting he doesn't and that he won't be around a whole lot longer then maybe next season.

[Sabre1974]

Good post.

agree

[bunomatic]

Missed this one. Score ?

Nevermind. Found it myself. Glad I missed that shitshow.

[eman]

Good post.

 

While I admire your optimism, how long have we heard this song before? If this happens, if that happens, if we get this guy, if we get rid of that guy. You know Pegula, just show me. This organization has worn me out. We are getting perilously close to a decade of no playoffs. that is an embarrassment any way you want to slice it. You do realize how badly the Buffalo Bills are maligned for going 17 years? They are a laughing stock up until this past season, and to be honest, it was not that great of a season and serious help was required just to make it in this year.

 

Even the Toronto Maple Leafs whom I completely loathe with every bone in my body never went a decade with no playoffs I believe. ( and we used to love ripping the Leafs and their fans) There is a whole lot that needs to be done here before this club even sniffs the playoffs and the jury is still out on JBot. I have already found Phil guilty of being a brutal head coach and we can start with his termination. 

[pi2000]

What is Housley doing? He clearly does not know how to get through to these guys. I don't think the players respect him... it's obvious by their play.

[Kruppstahl]

Don't think Housley will be going anywhere this season, nor do I think he's the main reason for this disappointing season.

 

Having said that, he doesn't seem like a great choice and I would imagine he'll be replaced in due course if ever get good again.

 

Watched Anaheim vs. LA Kings last night; incredible game that was genuinely entertaining.  Played with a playoff game level of commitment and energy from both teams.

I haven't seen a Sabres team play like that in at least 5 years.

 

That's not all on Phil Housley!

[darksabre]

While I admire your optimism, how long have we heard this song before? If this happens, if that happens, if we get this guy, if we get rid of that guy. You know Pegula, just show me. This organization has worn me out. We are getting perilously close to a decade of no playoffs. that is an embarrassment any way you want to slice it. You do realize how badly the Buffalo Bills are maligned for going 17 years? They are a laughing stock up until this past season, and to be honest, it was not that great of a season and serious help was required just to make it in this year.

 

Even the Toronto Maple Leafs whom I completely loathe with every bone in my body never went a decade with no playoffs I believe. ( and we used to love ripping the Leafs and their fans) There is a whole lot that needs to be done here before this club even sniffs the playoffs and the jury is still out on JBot. I have already found Phil guilty of being a brutal head coach and we can start with his termination.

The players are this team's biggest problem. There's no coach on this planet who could get these guys going. Not Torts, not Hitch, not Lindy, not Babs. They are just flat out bad.

 

For me to evaluate Phil I would have to know that the roster was square. It's just soooo not.

 

People will point to Bylsma and say he was better, but I don't agree. Coaching to cover up a team that is actually a dumpster fire isn't "better". Phil clearly isn't here to do that, and I'm sure Botts is with him. Let them suck.

 

Botterill has a lot of work to do. He needs to find players who can play the game the right way.

[nucci]

I can agree with this and still hold the opinion of my original post.

Losing creates doubt in self and others. More losing reinforces that.

The Sabres are bad because of lack of talent and they won’t get better until they get more talent.

But just getting more talent won’t make them better.

of course it will

[eman]

Don't think Housley will be going anywhere this season, nor do I think he's the main reason for this disappointing season.

 

Having said that, he doesn't seem like a great choice and I would imagine he'll be replaced in due course if ever get good again.

 

Watched Anaheim vs. LA Kings last night; incredible game that was genuinely entertaining.  Played with a playoff game level of commitment and energy from both teams.

I haven't seen a Sabres team play like that in at least 5 years.

 

That's not all on Phil Housley!

 

Agreed, not all of what woes us is on Phil, but I do believe a great deal of it is and we are giving him a pass because it is his first year. I feel I have seen enough to think next season will not be any different then this one. 

 

The truth of the matter is, that despite the flack we give Robin Lehner ( some of it rightfully deserved) he has actually kept us in many games this season where we could have been blown out Today was not one of those but Lehner has made this club look more competitive then it truly is. Look at Ristolainen's regression under Phil. He looks barely AHL worthy at times this season and I do believe it is on Phil. Our power play now rates near the bottom if not the bottom and it used to be #1 with the same players: That's on Phil.

 

The phoning it in efforts are on Phil as he continues to refuse to sit anybody or demote anybody. Your coach cannot always be your friend. What worries me the most is that under Phil, I hope Jack isn't ruined and especially not Casey if Phil is here when he is. The Risto thing scares the hell out of me. The Anaheim-Kings efforts do have to do with their coaching as well as the level of talent. It does go hand in hand.