LGR4GM Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) It is summer and it is boring... http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/star-power-in-the-nhl-which-teams-have-it-and-how-much-does-it-take-to-win-the-cup The Hockey News came up with a list of star power and ranked by tiers. Buffalo ranks 23rd overall with only 2 tier 2 guys and 2 tier 5 guys. I would guess that Jack and Ryan O'Reilly are the 2 tier 2 guys. I would guess Okposo and Kane Reinhart are the Tier 5 guys. Here are the tiers. Tier 1 – Think year-end award candidates.98.5% - 100.0% Tier 2 – Think elite players, among the best at their position.96.5% - 98.5% Tier 3 – Think all-star calibre talent, among the best in the conference.94.0% - 96.5% Tier 4 – Think great players who complement players in the above tiers.91.0% - 94.0% Tier 5 – Think very good players who are borderline stars in the right environment.87.5% - 91.0% Actually the other tier 5 guy is Reinhart not Evander Kane... so that is interesting. Edited July 17, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Close, but Kane is not on the list. The other 3 are correct. Number 3 is very interesting, can anyone guess who it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 oh I could delete my edit and see if people guess it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 oh I could delete my edit and see if people guess it... Why bother? These guys are a bunch of clowns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 I don't think Pasternak is better than Eichel and Malkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 I don't think Pasternak is better than Eichel and MalkinRight!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 This list is questionable. Boston well ahead of Edmonton? Don't think so. Jets 2nd overall? If that were the case, they wouldn't be terrible every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 This list is questionable. Boston well ahead of Edmonton? Don't think so. Jets 2nd overall? If that were the case, they wouldn't be terrible every year.Well to be fair they're listing star players and acknowledge those players need depth to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Well to be fair they're listing star players and acknowledge those players need depth to succeed. And Wheeler and Pastrnak are in a tier above Malkin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 And Wheeler and Pastrnak are in a tier above Malkin. Malkin is underappreciated in the NHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Malkin is underappreciated in the NHL Because he plays with Crosby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted July 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) Because he plays with Crosby. Sam Reinhart will be fine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sorry, I think I blacked out briefly. Yes Malkin is overshadowed by Crosby and he is a very a good player in his own right. Edited July 17, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeEich Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 And Wheeler and Pastrnak are in a tier above Malkin. Jets aren't far off of being a contender man. If they had a goalie they'd be consistently in the playoffs. Above average defense, steadily improving offense. Got alot of really good young guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 I have no problem with someone saying the Sabres are bottom third in "star power." Jets aren't far off of being a contender man. If they had a goalie they'd be consistently in the playoffs. Above average defense, steadily improving offense. Got alot of really good young guys. They most definitely have a goalie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 If I were on the outside I would rate the Sabres pretty low, too. Until they've shown they can win consistently, they will be considered a hot mess. Edmonton was kind of like that; we knew they were getting better but until last season they were not taken seriously. Buffalo's in that same purgatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) I'ma be honest, any list that puts Bergeron, Marchand, and Pastrnack in "Tier 1" and Nicklas Backstrom, Ryan Getzlaf, and Leon Draisaitl in "Tier 3" doesn't really convince me of its legitimacy. Then to group players using arbitrarily placed dotted lines and then count the (small) numbers of players in each group for each team isn't a good statistical analysis. Then try wedge that weak-ass correlation into causation and say wishywashy ###### like "What’s missing from most of those teams at the bottom are Tier 1 players. It’s hard to get far without one ...But having one MVP-calibre player isn’t enough. ...They’re an important piece, but they’re not the only piece and that’s why this kind of analysis is important. It shows how crucial it is to build a core of great players..." He even contradicts himself: "The bottom line is that this league runs on star power...But ... Star power is the start of a good team, and it’s what makes a great team, but they need support around them to become a championship team." So you need great players. But you also need lots of good players. But how those are defined is aribtrary (and highly debatable). Edited July 17, 2017 by IKnowPhysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted July 17, 2017 Report Share Posted July 17, 2017 Jets aren't far off of being a contender man. If they had a goalie they'd be consistently in the playoffs. Above average defense, steadily improving offense. Got alot of really good young guys. Building from the wing out won't work for them. Their centre depth is nothingness after Scheifele, pros and prospects included. Byfuglien will be falling off a cliff by the time their young players are ready for a run. And, all of that really has nothing to do with Wheeler being ranked ahead of Malkin. Malkin is an all-time player. He's better than Blake Wheeler by a GOOD margin. I'ma be honest, any list that puts Bergeron, Marchand, and Pastrnack in "Tier 1" and Nicklas Backstrom, Ryan Getzlaf, and Leon Draisaitl in "Tier 3" doesn't really convince me of its legitimacy. Then to group players using arbitrarily placed dotted lines and then count the (small) numbers of players in each group for each team isn't a good statistical analysis. Then try wedge that weak-ass correlation into causation and say wishywashy ###### like "What’s missing from most of those teams at the bottom are Tier 1 players. It’s hard to get far without one ...But having one MVP-calibre player isn’t enough. ...They’re an important piece, but they’re not the only piece and that’s why this kind of analysis is important. It shows how crucial it is to build a core of great players..." He even contradicts himself: "The bottom line is that this league runs on star power...But ... Star power is the start of a good team, and it’s what makes a great team, but they need support around them to become a championship team." So you need great players. But you also need lots of good players. But how those are defined is aribtrary (and highly debatable). Agreed. It's a faulty list. And I'm not even arguing about Buffalo's placement. The author of the article is from Winnipeg. Winnipeg is ranked 2nd overall. The guy says the league is built on "Star Power", and the team with the second most star power missed the playoffs by a good margin? Bogus. Ridiculous bias for a professional article, and a large problem with modern sports journalism. Not an overstatement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRobertEichel Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 The author is from Winnipeg?! LOL that explains everything now. Even so, I appreciate the analytical spirit of the article. This is essentially a top 125 NHL player ranking grouped into 5 meaningful tiers. By the end of next season, I bet an updated list would look more like this for the Sabres: 1. Eichel - tier 1 - moves up one tier (deserves his tier 2 ranking at the moment, but has the talent to move up one) 2. O'Reilly - tier 2 - holds steady (maybe even a little too high, but whatever) 3. Ristolainen - tier 3 - makes a first appearance (should have been on this current list as tier 5...hopefully Housley reduces his minutes a bit to increase performance) 4. Okposo - tier 5 - holds steady (fair assessment) 5. Reinhart - tier 5 - holds steady (has potential to eventually rise a tier or two if he gets moved to center) 6. Kane - tier 5 - makes a first appearance on list (would have already made this list if he had a bit more consistency in his career) Look at that! That gives us 15 stars next year....enough to be a solid Stanley Cup contender, according to this guy's analysis. Also, Mittelstadt and Nylander have the talent to make this list in two or three years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 We should do this ourselves, after the super draft. Or are they essentially the same thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 Same thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 I think we're top 3rd in star potential but we didn't have anyone break 60 points last year haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 The author is from Winnipeg?! LOL that explains everything now. Even so, I appreciate the analytical spirit of the article. This article is to analytics as George Clooney is to Batman. A poorly directed, laughably weak attempt at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 This article is to analytics as George Clooney is to Batman. A poorly directed, laughably weak attempt at best. And don't forget the nipples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 And don't forget the nipples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeEich Posted July 18, 2017 Report Share Posted July 18, 2017 Building from the wing out won't work for them. Their centre depth is nothingness after Scheifele, pros and prospects included. Byfuglien will be falling off a cliff by the time their young players are ready for a run. And, all of that really has nothing to do with Wheeler being ranked ahead of Malkin. Malkin is an all-time player. He's better than Blake Wheeler by a GOOD margin. Agreed. It's a faulty list. And I'm not even arguing about Buffalo's placement. The author of the article is from Winnipeg. Winnipeg is ranked 2nd overall. The guy says the league is built on "Star Power", and the team with the second most star power missed the playoffs by a good margin? Bogus. Ridiculous bias for a professional article, and a large problem with modern sports journalism. Not an overstatement. Malkin is clearly better. I think maybe he's saying wheeler is to right wing as Malkin is to center. But the article is definitely trash. However I could see us finishing in the 23rd range, but I wouldn't come to that conclusion from the article. My reply was geared more towards Winnipeg being headed in the right direction them anything else. Don't let Chevaldayoffs tremendous patience, how conservative he is fool you. They have alot of depth, they could lose buff and be okay. Watch for some of those assets to be flipped for needs (center, goaltending) when the time is right. If the jets had league average goaltending they would have made the playoffs multiple times already. The author is from Winnipeg?! LOL that explains everything now. Even so, I appreciate the analytical spirit of the article. This is essentially a top 125 NHL player ranking grouped into 5 meaningful tiers. By the end of next season, I bet an updated list would look more like this for the Sabres: 1. Eichel - tier 1 - moves up one tier (deserves his tier 2 ranking at the moment, but has the talent to move up one) 2. O'Reilly - tier 2 - holds steady (maybe even a little too high, but whatever) 3. Ristolainen - tier 3 - makes a first appearance (should have been on this current list as tier 5...hopefully Housley reduces his minutes a bit to increase performance) 4. Okposo - tier 5 - holds steady (fair assessment) 5. Reinhart - tier 5 - holds steady (has potential to eventually rise a tier or two if he gets moved to center) 6. Kane - tier 5 - makes a first appearance on list (would have already made this list if he had a bit more consistency in his career) Look at that! That gives us 15 stars next year....enough to be a solid Stanley Cup contender, according to this guy's analysis. Also, Mittelstadt and Nylander have the talent to make this list in two or three years. Uh oh... You know who else is from Winnipeg right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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