sweetlou Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 I have never been impressed with Sam's game. Does not have great speed. Is only ok defensively. Has scored half his goals on the PP. I think Sam would return more than E Kane because of people seeing potential and he is still on ECL and wouldn't cost as much. I think Chicago would be interested in getting him and move him to center P Kane or stay at RW with Toews. I just don't know what we could get from Chicago. They may be shopping VanRiemsdyk since they won't be able to protect him. Maybe Larsson and Reinhart and Chicago's 2nd to Chicago for VanRiemsyk, Krueger, and Hartman. I 'm guessing on the value of each of these players, not sure if it is not enough or more than enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 So a player that is not good enough for Buffalo would be of interest to one of the premier franchises in the NHL? Good thinkin' Lincoln. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 It's OK Sam, I still love you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 I'm going to assume "talented" is one of JBot's qualifiers. So, yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) I think Sam will be fine. I wouldn't trade him to Chicago. I'd trade him to Anaheim for Fowler or to Carolina for Hanifin and a pick but that's about it. Edited June 7, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Reinhart doesn't 'look' like the most dominant player out there, he isn't that big, not the best skater...but he does produce pretty well for a top 5 pick. He has 40 goals in his first 2 years in the NHL. That is very close to, or better production than these other recent top 5 forward picks in their first 2 years: Evander Kane (33) Nathan McKinnon (38) Jonathan Drouin (29 total goals in 164 NHL games over 4 years..but he LOOKS good doing it) Aleksander Barkov (24) Alex Galchenyuk (42 in his first 3 seasons, one being a short season) Ryan Nugent Hopkins (47 in his first 3 seasons, one being a short season) Jonathan Huberdeau (only scored exactly 20 goals once in his career, averages about 15 per year) Sure, there are also players who did better (McDavid, Seguin) and also some I wouldn't take at all (Yakupov), but Reinhart I think is doing what you would expect him to do, maybe even slightly better. His biggest problem might be he just doesn't look 'dominant' in the way he produces. Edited June 7, 2017 by mjd1001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 I'm really hoping that JB takes a good look (like through November) at what he really has currently & doesn't make any major moves (unless some no-brainer comes up & bites him in the bippy) prior to having a good handle on what these guys can do being led by someone that ISN'T a Goober. With a real coach this current lineup SHOULD be good enough to make the playoffs. Get the full picture & figure out how to have them better than that in the near future. Throwing away Reinhart for a 3/4 D would be poor asset management IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 I'm really hoping that JB takes a good look (like through November) at what he really has currently & doesn't make any major moves (unless some no-brainer comes up & bites him in the bippy) prior to having a good handle on what these guys can do being led by someone that ISN'T a Goober. With a real coach this current lineup SHOULD be good enough to make the playoffs. Get the full picture & figure out how to have them better than that in the near future. Throwing away Reinhart for a 3/4 D would be poor asset management IMHO. Any other off-season and I would agree with you. But I think this expansion draft has turned everything upside down. I think there are d available this month that normally wouldn't be available. Only reason is teams are afraid of losing via expansion draft. Not because of salary, not because of talent. They're afraid they will be lost for nothing. JBot has some huge decisions to make here. Getting good young defesemen is nearly impossible. This offseason I think teams have a real chance at acquiring one if they are willing to give up a good forward asset AND have the room to protect them in the draft. Buffalo checks both boxes. Saying this, I hope they keep Reinhart unless a top pairing guy is coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Any other off-season and I would agree with you. But I think this expansion draft has turned everything upside down. I think there are d available this month that normally wouldn't be available. Only reason is teams are afraid of losing via expansion draft. Not because of salary, not because of talent. They're afraid they will be lost for nothing. JBot has some huge decisions to make here. Getting good young defesemen is nearly impossible. This offseason I think teams have a real chance at acquiring one if they are willing to give up a good forward asset AND have the room to protect them in the draft. Buffalo checks both boxes. Saying this, I hope they keep Reinhart unless a top pairing guy is coming back.Here's my issue, getting Reinhart level players happens basically only in round 1. Getting good top 4 guys round 1 and 2. Just because Murray didn't draft any shouldn't mean trading Reinhart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Any other off-season and I would agree with you. But I think this expansion draft has turned everything upside down. I think there are d available this month that normally wouldn't be available. Only reason is teams are afraid of losing via expansion draft. Not because of salary, not because of talent. They're afraid they will be lost for nothing. JBot has some huge decisions to make here. Getting good young defesemen is nearly impossible. This offseason I think teams have a real chance at acquiring one if they are willing to give up a good forward asset AND have the room to protect them in the draft. Buffalo checks both boxes. Saying this, I hope they keep Reinhart unless a top pairing guy is coming back. And that's the rub. Nobody really knows how the Vegas draft will shake out. But I'd not be at all surprised if an Anaheim-type team that's close now & stands to lose a much more valuable asset than a team further away (such as the Sabres - does anybody really care who they lose other than Ullmark, and even he won't be universally be bemoaned if he's gone) ends up making a side deal to give up prospects to Vegas to keep an unprotected player protected. That's the way past expansion drafts worked. Even if the league had a mechanism in place to prevent those deals, they'd be VERY hard to enforce. "We didn't want Vatannen, he's old & injured. Prove we took x ONLY because we also swapped pick y for prospects A&B." Many here are hoping for the easy snag of a top D. I'd like to see that too, but don't have terribly high hopes for it unless the Sabres pay close to normal rate because the Sabres aren't the only team bidding for that/ those assets. And the top price will be better than the 2nd best offer by definition. (Well, duh. Thanks for that nugget Sherlock. :lol:) Is there any reason to believe another team that wants Brodin (just as an example) will make so low an offer that the Sabres can scoop him up for a song? The price will likely be lower than a normal year, but it's doubtful it will truly be a buyer's market. (Again, hoping the Sabres can get the cheap upgrade. Just not expecting it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRobertEichel Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Neither Reinhart nor Kane should be traded unless a definitive top-50 NHL defenseman is part of the return. And this is not very likely, even with the expansion draft complicating things. Just think about what we sacrificed for each of these guys: 1. Reinhart: the entire 2013-14 tank season. 2. Kane: essentially 4 1st round picks, a high 2nd round pick, and Bogosian's awful contract. Both have their flaws, but they are still major talents who have proven that they can produce at the pro level. Moreover, they are both very young and still have plenty of room to grow, especially with better coaching. I'm inclined to keep talent rather than get rid of it. Enough with the stupid trade proposals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Reinhart has room to grow. Kane is the player he will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Reinhart won't be going anywhere. Regardless of his lack of speed (and yes, it does show), if the right players surround him (as a center, not a RW'er) he would undoubtedly be a superstar. His vision on the ice, patience with the puck and overall positioning are a thing of beauty most nights. Our centers aren't the problem. Our wingers are. We need that HUNGRY chemistry for Jack, Sam and Ryan. Baptiste, Bailey, Nylander and Fasching will fill out a couple of those RW slots, and hopefully Okposo fully recovers (I more than suspect he will). Where are the LW'ers going to come from? And address the defense? A daunting task for Boterill indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 MJD Has it correct: Sam's performance outstrips his reputation. He still projects as a core piece and should only be traded for a core piece or projected core piece. The kid needs a publicist. Years three and four are typically the breakout years for young skill forwards. I can't wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) I'm calling 60pts for Reinhart this season Edited June 7, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 I'm calling 60pts for Reinhart this season You can dial the number all you'd like, doesn't mean you'll get an answer. :P This team needs to finish out the core rebuild. With the Expansion Draft, 8th over all and deals that Boterill can swing, we shall see come October where Reinharts numbers end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Neither Reinhart nor Kane should be traded unless a definitive top-50 NHL defenseman is part of the return. And this is not very likely, even with the expansion draft complicating things. Just think about what we sacrificed for each of these guys: 1. Reinhart: the entire 2013-14 tank season. 2. Kane: essentially 4 1st round picks, a high 2nd round pick, and Bogosian's awful contract. Both have their flaws, but they are still major talents who have proven that they can produce at the pro level. Moreover, they are both very young and still have plenty of room to grow, especially with better coaching. I'm inclined to keep talent rather than get rid of it. Enough with the stupid trade proposals. +1 would read again. Do you have a newsletter? If so, how does one go about subscribing to said newsletter? Is Paypal cool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 You can dial the number all you'd like, doesn't mean you'll get an answer. :P This team needs to finish out the core rebuild. With the Expansion Draft, 8th over all and deals that Boterill can swing, we shall see come October where Reinharts numbers end up. We will see come April where his numbers end up :flirt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Neither Reinhart nor Kane should be traded unless a definitive top-50 NHL defenseman is part of the return. And this is not very likely, even with the expansion draft complicating things. Just think about what we sacrificed for each of these guys: 1. Reinhart: the entire 2013-14 tank season. 2. Kane: essentially 4 1st round picks, a high 2nd round pick, and Bogosian's awful contract. Both have their flaws, but they are still major talents who have proven that they can produce at the pro level. Moreover, they are both very young and still have plenty of room to grow, especially with better coaching. I'm inclined to keep talent rather than get rid of it. Enough with the stupid trade proposals. Ah, but there in lay the Achilles heel. "Both have their flaws" you say. Given the owners emphasis on "character", in conjunction with the subsequent coming contract of 1 Evander Kane (his demands, which whether acknowledged by fans or not are going to hefty), can you honestly attest that re-signing him is a foregone conclusion based merely on his 25 goal per season (averaging) with the Sabers? Do you not believe the new management team competent enough to address both what the owner desires as well as addressing team needs? When you commit with such statements you close doors to other possibilities. We will see come April where his numbers end up :flirt: Perhaps, but the start of the season line up will be a metric with which to gauge the new coach, whomever that may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 The start of the season lineup doesn't gauge the coach but the gm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 The start of the season lineup doesn't gauge the coach but the gm. The GM sets up the chess board, the coach moves the pieces, this is fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) The GM sets up the chess board, the coach moves the pieces, this is fact. Okay and in October the pieces will barely have moved anywhere. I'm not judging a brand new coach off of the start of the season lineup. By the end of January I think we will have a good gauge of the coach. A fact is that a newbie coach shouldn't be judged because of his opening lineup but by his record in April. Edited June 7, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Okay and in October the pieces will barely have moved anywhere. I'm not judging a brand new coach off of the start of the season lineup. By the end of January I think we will have a good gauge of the coach. A fact is that a newbie coach shouldn't be judged because of his opening lineup but by his record in April. No one is judging anything. Merely pointing out that the moves made by the coach will be indicative of how Reinarts (or all players on the roster for that matter) will turn out. And yes, while it is true we don't have a clue as to the adjustments that may be made as injuries occur, the chemistry that may develop, the maturity of the youth that may be gained or the impact of rebounding veterans, one thing is a constant, coaching will be the pivotal factor in much of that, which, in turn, will equate to players stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 I think Reinhart is a keeper. Not sure about a guy like Fasching or Girgensons tho... or Larsson... or Rodrigues.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) No one is judging anything. Merely pointing out that the moves made by the coach will be indicative of how Reinarts (or all players on the roster for that matter) will turn out. And yes, while it is true we don't have a clue as to the adjustments that may be made as injuries occur, the chemistry that may develop, the maturity of the youth that may be gained or the impact of rebounding veterans, one thing is a constant, coaching will be the pivotal factor in much of that, which, in turn, will equate to players stats. What moves made by the coach? Who he thinks should go to Rochester? Also you literally said metric with which to gauge... which is another way of saying judging. Perhaps, but the start of the season line up will be a metric with which to gauge the new coach, whomever that may be. This is what you said and what I responded too. That is absolutely not a metric (preseason lineup changes) to gauge the new coach. Edited June 7, 2017 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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