Derek Grant Signs with Sabres

[LGR4GM]

It really doesn't matter much given that it's a depth/AHL signing, but Murray sure does love dealing with Ottawa and ex-Ottawa players a lot.  "He likes his own guys way too much" was a common complaint with Regier, but operating that way is way more common than we think.  It's amazing to see how these guys develop their own little network that they wind up dealing with constantly.  It probably sheds a lot of light onto the annual question from each fanbase of why we couldn't make that same trade since our trade chips were better.

And this is why we need you back.

 

I agree. Murray's reliance on guys he knows from his Ottawa days is raising an eyebrow or 2 for me. I want him to rely on his scouts as well. There is more talent than just what Ottawa has. 

[Huckleberry]

My question is Derek Grant really suited for 4th line duty. He seems like an offensive guy. Which is fine but if he poops on himself in the D zone, I don't think he really fits.

 

 

More to my point:

 

Eichel, O'Reilly, Reinhart all fit top 2 center material

 

Larsson, Girgensons fit bottom six center criteria

 

So where does that leave Grant, Cal O'Reilly, or whoever

 

I don't see Girgensons as a center on this team any more, but that is just me I guess.

[shrader]

And this is why we need you back.

 

I agree. Murray's reliance on guys he knows from his Ottawa days is raising an eyebrow or 2 for me. I want him to rely on his scouts as well. There is more talent than just what Ottawa has. 

 

Honestly, most don't matter much at all since they are fringe guys.  There's only one in a key role.  He just happens to be filling the most important spot on the entire roster.

[inkman]

I don't see Girgensons as a center on this team any more, but that is just me I guess.

It's not just you but DD seems hell bent on keeping him there.

[LGR4GM]

This is what my model comes up with for 2015. It's really made for valuing 17 year olds, but I think it does an OK job comparing AHL players to NHL players. Granted, previously to being sent to the AHL last season, Grant scored in the 400's and 500's, so his partial season last year may be an outlier, but last season, Grant was really good.

 

I don't have all the Sabres, since I never went back as far as Giota or Moulson.

 

How to read this. Ryan O'Reilly was 2nd best forward in his draft class, with a 2704 raw score.

 

2 RYAN O'REILLY NHL 2704

  KYLE OKPOSO NHL 2101

3 DEREK GRANT AHL 1755

2 JACK EICHEL NHL 1440

6 SAM REINHART NHL 1227

16 EVANDER KANE NHL 1086

13 TYLER ENNIS NHL 1071

33 HUDSON FASCHING NCAA 770

38 VICTOR OLOFSSON SHL 710

40 GUSTAV POSSLER SHL 692

37 MARCUS FOLIGNO NHL 687

45 JUSTIN BAILEY AHL 645

10 ALEXANDER NYLANDER OHL 611

33 GIORGIO ESTEPHAN WHL 579

44 ZEMGUS GIRGENSONS NHL 568

58 SEAN MALONE NCAA 528

67 JOHAN LARSSON NHL 489

61 ERIC CORNEL OHL 453

65 NICHOLAS BAPTISTE AHL 450

32 RASMUS ASPLUND SHL 387

73 CONNOR HURLEY NCAA 375

111 VACLAV KARABACEK QMJHL 226

114 CHRISTOPHER BROWN NCAA 201

So this is valuing them last years production from the different leagues?

[LTS]

And this is why we need you back.

 

I agree. Murray's reliance on guys he knows from his Ottawa days is raising an eyebrow or 2 for me. I want him to rely on his scouts as well. There is more talent than just what Ottawa has. 

 

Murray is highly regarded a guy who can spot talent.  Stands to reason that he drafted quite a few "under the radar" people in Ottawa.  Going out and getting them when the organization they were in can't keep them isn't necessarily a mistake.  The premise that the Sabres scouting staff isn't on board is a bit far fetched.  Perhaps they were all in agreement on grabbing him for the age/role/salary/skill fit they needed.

 

At the level Grant is playing do you think there is a huge difference between him and 35 others guys around the league?  I don't think there is and as such I think I would trend towards the player I know over someone I don't.

[LGR4GM]

Murray is highly regarded a guy who can spot talent.  Stands to reason that he drafted quite a few "under the radar" people in Ottawa.  Going out and getting them when the organization they were in can't keep them isn't necessarily a mistake.  The premise that the Sabres scouting staff isn't on board is a bit far fetched.  Perhaps they were all in agreement on grabbing him for the age/role/salary/skill fit they needed.

 

At the level Grant is playing do you think there is a huge difference between him and 35 others guys around the league?  I don't think there is and as such I think I would trend towards the player I know over someone I don't.

I agree. Just hope Murray isn't falling in love with players he once knew. 

[TrueBlueGED]

I agree. Just hope Murray isn't falling in love with players he once knew.

Me too. I also remember him saying after the trade how much he liked Kane and Bogosian in juniors. Something to keep an eye on.

[rakish]

So this is valuing them last years production from the different leagues?

 

yes, the valuation tends to be too high for someone who no longer belongs in that league, so, for instance Pulkinen had an extremely high AHL number his last year there. He also may be broken, like TJ Brennen who has great AHL numbers, this was the question that I asked in June

 

Posted 13 June 2016 - 09:22 AM

Anybody have an opinion on Derek Grant?  I'm guessing he can't skate fast enough

Edited by rakish, 13 June 2016 - 09:23 AM.

 

So I don't expect Grant to score like Eichel will, but he did have a really good year in the AHL last year

[LGR4GM]

Me too. I also remember him saying after the trade how much he liked Kane and Bogosian in juniors. Something to keep an eye on.

I liked Mark McNeil in juniors but I don't want to trade for him now. 

yes, the valuation tends to be too high for someone who no longer belongs in that league, so, for instance Pulkinen had an extremely high AHL number his last year there. He also may be broken, like TJ Brennen who has great AHL numbers, this was the question that I asked in June

 

Posted 13 June 2016 - 09:22 AM

Anybody have an opinion on Derek Grant?  I'm guessing he can't skate fast enough

Edited by rakish, 13 June 2016 - 09:23 AM.

 

So I don't expect Grant to score like Eichel will, but he did have a really good year in the AHL last year

I think the skating thing is important. It is easier to put up numbers with sub par skating in any league but the current NHL. Skating has really become on the level of shooting in recent years. 

[That Aud Smell]

Me too. I also remember him saying after the trade how much he liked Kane and Bogosian in juniors. Something to keep an eye on.

 

Yep - plenty of scouting in the rear-view for GM TM.

[LTS]

I agree. Just hope Murray isn't falling in love with players he once knew. 

 

 

Me too. I also remember him saying after the trade how much he liked Kane and Bogosian in juniors. Something to keep an eye on.

 

Even if he does he hasn't shown the propensity to make stupid trades because he loves a player.  Right now the Bogo-Kane trade looks like a total wash on both sides.  

 

Some day i hope we learn just how calculating he is when he makes certain moves that seem odd at the time but might play into something different later on.  What if Matty Mo was signed to gain favor for Okposo later on?  What if the whole Vesey situation was to show for Eichel?  "Hey Jack, we gave him the opportunity but he wanted NY.  We didn't try to hard sell him, but we were willing to go out and give him a lot of time to think us over before he made the NY decision."

 

I'll keep waiting for his head scratching move but at times I wonder if he's like a grandmaster chess player just in the hockey realm... he's a GM after all.

 

Yea.. it's almost fanboi from me... but I'm not coming up with bad moves on his part.

[Drunkard]

Even if he does he hasn't shown the propensity to make stupid trades because he loves a player.  Right now the Bogo-Kane trade looks like a total wash on both sides.  

 

Some day i hope we learn just how calculating he is when he makes certain moves that seem odd at the time but might play into something different later on.  What if Matty Mo was signed to gain favor for Okposo later on?  What if the whole Vesey situation was to show for Eichel?  "Hey Jack, we gave him the opportunity but he wanted NY.  We didn't try to hard sell him, but we were willing to go out and give him a lot of time to think us over before he made the NY decision."

 

I'll keep waiting for his head scratching move but at times I wonder if he's like a grandmaster chess player just in the hockey realm... he's a GM after all.

 

Yea.. it's almost fanboi from me... but I'm not coming up with bad moves on his part.

 

I wouldn't say almost. Murray has a good portion of Sabres fans thinking he walks on water. Do you really think he signed Moulson to a 5 year deal 2 seasons ago because he was somehow hoping Okposo would reach free agency and that would tip the scales in signing him? He gave Moulson that contract because the guy consistently potted 20-30 goals a season and even though he was getting long in the tooth his game has never been predicated on speed so nobody expected his production to fall off a cliff. I don't think he brought Vesey in to placate Eichel either. He wanted Vesey for the same reason all those other GMs wanted him, because he's a good player who is guaranteed to be dirt cheap for at least 2 seasons. We traded for his rights because we have a stockpile of picks and a 3rd rounder isn't a high price to pay when you believe having one of his buddies on your team gives you an inside track. Using Eichel to try to win him over would be an obvious move to try to tip the scales but it wasn't just a dog and pony show to make Eichel like the organization. If it was, I'd want him fired yesterday.

[LTS]

I wouldn't say almost. Murray has a good portion of Sabres fans thinking he walks on water. Do you really think he signed Moulson to a 5 year deal 2 seasons ago because he was somehow hoping Okposo would reach free agency and that would tip the scales in signing him? He gave Moulson that contract because the guy consistently potted 20-30 goals a season and even though he was getting long in the tooth his game has never been predicated on speed so nobody expected his production to fall off a cliff. I don't think he brought Vesey in to placate Eichel either. He wanted Vesey for the same reason all those other GMs wanted him, because he's a good player who is guaranteed to be dirt cheap for at least 2 seasons. We traded for his rights because we have a stockpile of picks and a 3rd rounder isn't a high price to pay when you believe having one of his buddies on your team gives you an inside track. Using Eichel to try to win him over would be an obvious move to try to tip the scales but it wasn't just a dog and pony show to make Eichel like the organization. If it was, I'd want him fired yesterday.

 

Your responses make it sound like there is only 1 reason something happens.  My point is that there isn't.  No, I don't think the Moulson signing is ONLY to bring in Okposo.  However, when considering the need to sign a veteran to the roster for the transition I don't doubt that some of those relationships come into mind for him.

 

I don't think he's bringing in any player that he doesn't have a role for in the organization. I just think that when choosing actions he takes into account more than just having the player.

 

He would like to have Vesey, certainly but he could have waited just like everyone else.  Instead he uses a 3rd round pick that he had plenty of to bring the kid in early. Make a show of it.. he lost on the show but he wins in the "I'm willing to go get the guys that other players like."

 

He probably loves game theory... someone should ask him that.  Perhaps John Nash is one of his idols?

[Doohickie]

Eichel, O'Reilly, Reinhart all fit top 2 center material

 

Larsson, Girgensons fit bottom six center criteria

 

So where does that leave Grant, Cal O'Reilly, or whoever

Injuries.

 

Damn.  I wish I wasn't so prophetic.  On the other hand, it's starting to look like Grant was a good signing, eh?