WildCard Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Throughout the tank years, there was one shining beacon on the ice we could watch: Zemgus Grigensons. On the back of Latvia and breakout seasons, Zemgus went to the ASG. He was on pace for a 20 goal season with insane moves against Detroit and breakaway hands that shouted Grigorenko, not Girgensons. He was physical, a leader, and everything we could have hoped for. And now? He's lost in the offensive zone, he has stone hands. No more pp time for him, little pk time, and a shutdown role that he continually struggles with. What are we to do with Zemgus Grigensons, what are our expectations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 Throughout the tank years, there was one shining beacon on the ice we could watch: Zemgus Grigensons. On the back of Latvia and breakout seasons, Zemgus went to the ASG. He was on pace for a 20 goal season with insane moves against Detroit and breakaway hands that shouted Grigorenko, not Girgensons. He was physical, a leader, and everything we could have hoped for. And now? He's lost in the offensive zone, he has stone hands. No more pp time for him, little pk time, and a shutdown role that he continually struggles with. What are we to do with Zemgus Grigensons, what are our expectations? Growing pains. He'll be fine. There's so many guys struggling to score on this team... Girgensons, Larsson, Foligno, Moulson, etc... I can understand some of the younger players maybe don't feel the pressure they felt in years past now that guys like O'Reilly and Eichel and Kane are on the team. It's almost as if they think it's no longer their job to score goals... the pressure is off. Eventually they'll realize they all need to play desperate hockey night and night out to be successful in this league. Guys like Moulson and Gionta should know that by now... Gionta, he's just old and slowing down... Moulson has no excuse however. Back to Zemgus... you don't give up on him. He'll get it eventually and he's still only 22, he'll work through it, don't move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I don't think it's growing pains though. I'm not sure he's comfortable in the role he's in, but I don't think he's actually good enough to warrant the role he used to have. He's thinking more and doing less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I don't think it's growing pains though. I'm not sure he's comfortable in the role he's in, but I don't think he's actually good enough to warrant the role he used to have. He's thinking more and doing less He was a top 2 center the last couple of years, he got top minutes, etc... that means more opportunities. He's not getting nearly as much ice time or looks on the PP as he had in years past. I'm not worried because he wasn't projected as a top 2 center... he was projected as a 3rd line C who can put up 15-20 goals/yr. He still has that potential IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 6, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 He was a top 2 center the last couple of years, he got top minutes, etc... that means more opportunities. He's not getting nearly as much ice time or looks on the PP as he had in years past. I'm not worried because he wasn't projected as a top 2 center... he was projected as a 3rd line C who can put up 15-20 goals/yr. He still has that potential IMO. I understand the production will drop given the fewer opportunities, but he's completely failing to cash any opportunities himself, or creating an against team's lesser defense pairings. That's a problem to me The Sabres have a massive, massive issue with secondary scoring, and Zemgus is the prime contributor to that IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I understand the production will drop given the fewer opportunities, but he's completely failing to cash any opportunities himself, or creating an against team's lesser defense pairings. That's a problem to me The Sabres have a massive, massive issue with secondary scoring, and Zemgus is the prime contributor to that IMO He's been looking good on Eichel's wing so far (minus last night). He played with Ennis and (non-corpse) Moulson last year and did a good job there. I think he's a great compliment to skill players and isn't great at creating his own offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I harken back to the very early season when he and Dan had a long chat on the ice after a practice (or during, or before). Something was up right out of the hopper between these two, or least between Zemgus and what he was being asked to do. Not a happy camper, I am guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I understand the production will drop given the fewer opportunities, but he's completely failing to cash any opportunities himself, or creating an against team's lesser defense pairings. That's a problem to me The Sabres have a massive, massive issue with secondary scoring, and Zemgus is the prime contributor to that IMO There's still a lot of season left. Bylsma's system is an adjustment... for everybody. He's probably never had this much detailed coaching at any point in his career. I give everybody a pass this season except Moulson, he's been in the league long enough he should be producing in any system. He's not getting to the net and he gives up on plays. I don't see Zemgus giving up on plays, he still plays hard as is getting chances.... they'll start going in, hockey is a streaky sport, he could put up 10 goals in one month and be right back on pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 If tampa asked for him in a Drouin trade, would you do it ? I'm close to saying yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) I think I would hang onto the known commodity for the time being. This year I think the key is to institute Bylsmania (or whatever his system is called) and evaluate who fits with the system and who fits with each other. In a year where most of the players on the team are new, I think it's important to stabilize things and see how the team settles in. Next year the goal will hopefully be the playoffs and filling the holes will be a bigger priority. Edited January 7, 2016 by The Big Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 If tampa asked for him in a Drouin trade, would you do it ? I'm close to saying yes. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Last year's "system" played to his strengths and he is struggling to learn a new one. I still think Zemgus has a future as a top six winger or a third-line centre. But NHL expansion team history is littered with leading scorers who never repeated those numbers on a real team. Last year we were essentially an expansion team. Edited January 7, 2016 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I Want Zemgus on this team come playoffs, whichever year that ends up being. I'm fully confident that by then, he'll be the Zemgus we've dreamt of seeing lead this team deep into spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) I envision Zemgus becoming DD's new Staal Edited January 7, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 If tampa asked for him in a Drouin trade, would you do it ? I'm close to saying yes. No, but I would have included Zemgus in a trade for Seth Jones. I am also assuming it would be Zemgus + things and I am already fairly uncomfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I envision Zemgus becoming DD's new Staal I think Bylsma's misguided attempt to do this is the entire reason we have a thread asking what's wrong with Zemgus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I think Bylsma's misguided attempt to do this is the entire reason we have a thread asking what's wrong with Zemgus. Yep. This is not the only player he is misusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musichunch Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 Whenever a promising young player hits a wall with a new coaching staff, you need to take a look at the coaching staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I think Bylsma's misguided attempt to do this is the entire reason we have a thread asking what's wrong with Zemgus.Exactly why we should go and get Jordan Staal, or someone comparable. Zemgus is, as qwk pointed out and you've wanted all season, much more apt at a 2nd line winger for JackWhenever a promising young player hits a wall with a new coaching staff, you need to take a look at the coaching staff.But all of our other promising young players haven't hit walls. I don't count Ennis, and Kane has had injuries and is at least scoring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Exactly why we should go and get Jordan Staal, or someone comparable. Zemgus is, as qwk pointed out and you've wanted all season, much more apt at a 2nd line winger for Jack But all of our other promising young players haven't hit walls. I don't count Ennis, and Kane has had injuries and is at least scoring My issue with Jordan Staal is he comes with Jordan Staal's contract :p Really though I still believe Larsson can give us what Kruger gives Chicago, and I want to give him this year to prove it. I'm also much more inclined to use the remaining trade bullets we have on a puck moving LHD and/or top-6 winger than I am on a #3C. Edited January 7, 2016 by TrueBlueGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) My issue with Jordan Staal is he comes with Jordan Staal's contract :p Really though I still believe Larsson can give us what Kruger gives Chicago, and I want to give him this year to prove it. I'm also much more inclined to use the remaining trade bullets we have on a puck moving LHD and/or top-6 winger than I am on a #3C. I'll give them Larsson and change for Staal and his contract. $6m until 2023 really isn't that bad. Terrible for a 3rd line center maybe, but it gives us Zemgus on the wings and everything else Staal brings Edited January 7, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 I'll give them Larsson and change for Staal and his contract. $6m until 2023 really isn't that bad. Terrible for a 3rd line center maybe, but it gives us Zemgus on the wings and everything else Staal brings RALEIGH, NC – Jim Rutherford, President and General Manager of the National Hockey League’s Carolina Hurricanes, today announced that the team has agreed to terms with center Jordan Staal on a 10-year contract extension. The deal begins with the 2013-14 NHL season and extends through the 2022-23 season, paying Staal $6 million per season. http://hurricanes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=636659 He'll be 35 when that deal ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 And we can't get a few years out of him and trade him for low level picks or just buy him out? If length really is the only worry here then there must be ways around it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musichunch Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 But all of our other promising young players haven't hit walls. I don't count Ennis, and Kane has had injuries and is at least scoring Doesn't have to be all of our young players hitting walls. Take a look at Rex Ryan, Gilmore and Darby have great years, and Hughes, Mario, Dareus, Kyle, Brown, Bradham, etc. have down years. That's what happens when you try to fit players to your system. I'm more of a football x's and o's guy than a hockey x's and o's guy, but it's clear to me that there is something going on with Bylsma's system and Girgs. IMO a great coach would FIND a way to make Girgs productive. A coach that will be fired in 2-3 years will trade Girgensons. The kid has IT. I don't like to see it go to waste. I want to add that I still support Bylsma, but nothing makes me turn my back on a coach faster than forcing your system on great players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 7, 2016 Report Share Posted January 7, 2016 And we can't get a few years out of him and trade him for low level picks or just buy him out? If length really is the only worry here then there must be ways around it I suppose we can hope he pulls a Mike Richards for us... I just think his contract is so exorbitant for a 3rd line player heading into the downside of his career that I wouldn't want to give up assets to acquire it. We pretty clearly need better depth scoring, but this is the wrong target IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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