Coaches Challenge on Offsides

[Jsixspd]

I'm fine with a challenge for goals made by running/charging the goalie;  those goals shouldn't have been allowed in the first place;  not to mention it's dirty play that can injure a goalie.   But this offside stuff is Mickey Mouse, and destroys the flow of the game.  

I also think the offside reversal should ONLY apply if it has some tangible effect on whether the goal would be scored or not (a direct pass from outside the zone to the offside player who then bangs it into the net or gets an assist.).   But some guy's skate being 1/2" over the line that didn't have the puck?   It would make no friggin difference!!!

How about just do away with the entire challenge ###### and add goalie interference and blown offsides to the elements reviewed by the officials when goals are scored?     

Edited November 18, 2015 by Jsixspd

[Cage]

Robi on GR moments ago. Simon quoted Bylsma as saying last night, in effect, it was disappointing, sure, but better to get it right. Robi agreed.

 

Seems like hockey people are more inclined to want correct calls; purity and integrity.

 

Fans? I think we're more inclined to accept some occasional missed calls for the sake of a more entertaining game.

 

The NHL is letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

I think that one of the things that isn't getting enough discussion is the extent that this reversal just shatters momentum.  Sports is a highly emotional activity, not just for the fans but the players especially.  We've seen in every sport the impact of momentum on a game the confidence generated during a comeback.  In all sports, teams call time-outs and change pitchers in order to stop a game and try to cool off momentum.   In two of the three cases for the Sabres, the COST of getting the call right far exceeded the intent of this rule.  It essentially killed their momentum, the crowd and the game in one fell swoop.  These are microscopic infractions that overturn a hard-earned goal on a technicality.  

 

The purpose of the offsides rule in a free-flowing game is to not give the attacking team an undo advantage.  If the infraction is so close that a linesman sitting on the Blue Line with the sole job of looking for offsides misses the call then its pretty clear that the attacking team didn't have an unfair advantage.  I really have a hard time seeing how this is "getting it right"

Edited November 18, 2015 by Cage

[sabresouth]

It's not just the Sabres..  Talk to Ovi

 

I like the rule.  It just hasn't worked out for the Sabres yet..  It will and all of you will be turning your swords into plowshares

.

 

Well not me, I don't like the idea of going back 30-60 or more second's to make a call. It absolutely take's the crowd out of the game, as well as the players. I think even worse than before the goal was scored. It wouldn't matter if we had won three straight calls. I don't like this rule.

 

Unfortunately I think this rule is here to stay, so here's an idea, the goal is only taken back if the goal was scored by the player that was offsides or was the primary assist on the goal. That leaves three other players to score. It would eliminate some of the call backs.

[That Aud Smell]

I don't think entertainment has anything to do with it. I think that fans are more inclined to accept some occasional calls as long as it is their team who benefits from them.

 

I've responded in some detail to this theory. As have others. My antipathy is far more than sour grapes. A one-note, ears plugged insistence to the contrary is not something with which I care to engage.

 

I think that one of the things that isn't getting enough discussion is the extent that this reversal just shatters momentum.  Sports is a highly emotional activity, not just for the fans but the players especially.  We've seen in every sport the impact of momentum on a game.  In two of the three cases for the Sabres, the COST of getting the call right far exceeded the intent of this rule.  It essentially killed momentum and the game in one fell swoop.  These are microscopic infractions that overturn a hard-earned goal on a technicality.  

 

The purpose of the offsides rule in a free-flowing game is to not give the attacking team an undo advantage.  If the infraction is so close that a linesman sitting on the Blue Line with the sole job of looking for offsides misses the call then its pretty clear that the attacking team didn't have an unfair advantage.  I really have a hard time seeing how this is "getting it right"

 

Another good insight.

 

In an effort to dispel the sour grapes theory: Here's what I really, really (really) DON'T want to happen. SCF 2016. Potentially Cup-deciding game with team with chance to win playing at home. Game goes to OT. Team with a chance to win the Cup gains the offensive zone, after a close offside call is missed. Goal is scored 15 seconds later after possession was maintained in the O-zone. Winning team goes nuts. Crowd goes nuts. Equipment strewn all over the ice. 

 

But wait ... .

 

Just, NO. No. God, please. No.

Edited November 18, 2015 by That Aud Smell

[inkman]

I don't think entertainment has anything to do with it. I think that fans are more inclined to accept some occasional calls as long as it is their team who benefits from them.

This

[dudacek]

I am beginning to think there is quite the difference between getting it "right, after the fact" and "right". All three were offside, but I see a lot "wrong" with this new process, enough to hesitate to call it "right", unfortunately.

 

 

When this happened back in the first game on Kane's goal (Girgensons was offside).  Tim Murray weighed in and wasn't upset, claiming it was the correct call.  Yo GMTM, you need to change your view on this and become an advocate for getting rid of this crazy technicality of a rule.  Its cost your team three goals and possibly two losses!!  This is NOT hockey!

 

I'm just looking at the article on this in the BN this morning... this is the exact same thing that happened in the first game. 

"It’s disappointing after the fact, but it’s a major downer when it happens. The roaring crowd went silent. The pumped-up Sabres suddenly had air let out. They tried to focus on continuing their power play and getting the goal back, but they never really challenged again."

 

They're being way too kind to this abomination of a rule.  When you read this it shows that the COST of this infraction is far greater than just erasing a goal.  Its changing the entire momentum of the game

 

I am torn. Ennis was clearly offside, but the offside had no more to do with the goal than a borderline hook overlooked in the neutral zone two seconds earlier, or a missed hand pass in the Sabres zone five seconds before that.

The NHL is riddled with missed calls and judgement calls and there is real danger that we are starting down a slippery slope of killing the spectacle.

I'd hate to feel the way about the NHL that I do about the NFL, where flags and replays have sucked the joy out of the sport for me.

Edited November 18, 2015 by dudacek

[TrueBlueGED]

I know it's not all sour grapes, so I don't mean to imply it is. But there'd be a heck of a lot less angst if Ennis would just keep his feet on the ice when entering the zone.

[darksabre]

I know it's not all sour grapes, so I don't mean to imply it is. But there'd be a heck of a lot less angst if Ennis would just keep his feet on the ice when entering the zone.

Yeah but that's boring. I want excitement. I want the game to be fun to watch. If a player wants to be airborne while entering the zone, then by all means flap those wings! 

[SwampD]

I think we should get rid of the time out as well. It's only purpose, really, is to kill momentum and slow the game down.

 

In both the Kane reversal and last night, even if the goals had counted, both coaches would have called a time out anyway to kill our momentum. And all those times when teams ice the puck because they are hemmed in and getting peppered with shots and they call one to give them a rest,… what a flow killer.

[Jsixspd]

I know it's not all sour grapes, so I don't mean to imply it is. But there'd be a heck of a lot less angst if Ennis would just keep his feet on the ice when entering the zone.

Yup.  Ennis should be on somebody's @#$%-list today.     This guy is one of the STARS of the team, or at least that's how he's billed by the organization (Ennis' face is featured on the Sabres main web page across from Moulson's).   He needs to be accountable.  

[That Aud Smell]

But there'd be a heck of a lot less angst if Ennis would just keep his feet on the ice when entering the zone.

 

From what I saw, he was jumping in order to avoid oncoming interference.

[sabresouth]

.

Well not me, I don't like the idea of going back 30-60 or more second's to make a call. It absolutely take's the crowd out of the game, as well as the players. I think even worse than before the goal was scored. It wouldn't matter if we had won three straight calls. I don't like this rule.

Unfortunately I think this rule is here to stay, so here's an idea, the goal is only taken back if the goal was scored by the player that was offsides or was the primary assist on the goal. That leaves three other players to score. It would eliminate some of the call backs.

OK I need to watch what I'm writing, there are four other players that could score and get the primary assist not three.

[WannabeGM]

I despise this rule.  I like the idea that someone posed earlier that counts only if the offender is offside.  

 

My issue is it seems a bit unfair that the only time you can have a offsides challenge is on a goal sequence.  If its only reviewable given a set of circumstances, its a dumb rule.  Would a team challenge an offsides that didn't lead to a goal?  No.  It's a "sour grapes" review that you can have only after a goal.  

 

I understand that you can't review every call coming into a zone.  If you can't do that to get it right, why ONLY on goal scoring plays.  Hate this.

[qwksndmonster]

There's just no sense whatsoever in adding a rule that makes it more difficult to score.  Especially when it's not the players' faults.  No player should get as much flack as Ennis has for going offsides.  Offsides is supposed to be a small call.  "Oh well, I missed the entry, back to the dot."   Getting the crowd excited for a goal, and  then taking it away is such an unnecessary kick in the dick.

[TrueBlueGED]

From what I saw, he was jumping in order to avoid oncoming interference.

Unless he has morphed into LeBron, I'm not sure that was the best decision even if it didn't lead to an offsides.

[qwksndmonster]

Unless he has morphed into LeBron, I'm not sure that was the best decision even if it didn't lead to an offsides.

It ended in a goal. Why was it a bad decision?

[TrueBlueGED]

There's just no sense whatsoever in adding a rule that makes it more difficult to score. Especially when it's not the players' faults. No player should get as much flack as Ennis has for going offsides. Offsides is supposed to be a small call. "Oh well, I missed the entry, back to the dot." Getting the crowd excited for a goal, and then taking it away is such an unnecessary kick in the dick.

Personally, I'd coming down hard on Ennis because I think he's been mostly garbage all season. Couple of flashes of the good Ennis here and there, but largely not. He's 26 now, he shouldn't have a bad stretch last a quarter of the season. So yea, I'm frustrated, and taking out overall anger on a more minor thing.

It ended in a goal. Why was it a bad decision?

Because leaving your skates at the blue line is just asking for an offsides, especially now that it's subject to review.

[qwksndmonster]

Personally, I'd coming down hard on Ennis because I think he's been mostly garbage all season. Couple of flashes of the good Ennis here and there, but largely not. He's 26 now, he shouldn't have a bad stretch last a quarter of the season. So yea, I'm frustrated, and taking out overall anger on a more minor thing.

 

Because leaving your skates at the blue line is just asking for an offsides, especially now that it's subject to review.

To the bolded: hockey is a fast game.  I'm with X on this.

 

He's still finding himself in Bylsma's system.  Ennis was the premier player in Nolan's offense last year, and pretty much had free reign to do whatever.  If he doesn't improve, yeah trade him in the offseason, but I think he'll be dangerous once he figures it out.

[TrueBlueGED]

I'm officially going to use the "it's a fast game, stop being so critical" every time people bitch about a ref missing a call :nana:

[qwksndmonster]

I'm officially going to use the "it's a fast game, stop being so critical" every time people bitch about a ref missing a call :nana:

The "fast game" was in reference to Ennis jumping at the blue line to not get hit. Would you rather have our players not try to gain the zone with speed? Dan built his system around our excellent team speed.

[TrueBlueGED]

The "fast game" was in reference to Ennis jumping at the blue line to not get hit. Would you rather have our players not try to gain the zone with speed? Dan built his system around our excellent team speed.

I'm just saying if we're going to forgive players for making judgment calls in a split second, we should do the same with refs.

[qwksndmonster]

I'm just saying if we're going to forgive players for making judgment calls in a split second, we should do the same with refs.

... okay?

[LGR4GM]

once the puck touches the blue line on the entry you should be allowed to enter the zone. This entire puck has to cross the line thing is stupid and reduces angles you can shoot it in at and scoring chances. Also after 10 seconds pass, offsides can't be reviewed.  Only the idiots at the NHL would figure out a way to reduce flow and scoring more.  Idc if the players like it and the coahces like it and the gms like it.  The fans hate it and last time I checked we were why the league existed.

[TrueBlueGED]

... okay?

Well, my prediction is this equivalence is most definitely not going to happen :lol:

[PASabreFan]

Yeah but that's boring. I want excitement. I want the game to be fun to watch. If a player wants to be airborne while entering the zone, then by all means flap those wings! 

That's all he does, bird impersonations? Heya, NS!