Coaches Challenge on Offsides

[Cage]

... I don't care that we discussed and clarified rule earlier in the year.  This is still BS.  They need to fix this rule.  Its the 2nd time its cost us and it just seems like overturning a hard-fought goal on a technicality.  Feels like a professional wrestling outcome....

[PASabreFan]

You won't get much argument. Maybe from Swamp. The league is killing a fly with a bazooka here. What you want to prevent is a blatant offside that immediately precedes a goal. How often does that happen? A handful of times a season? It. Is. Awful.

[ParkMeadow]

Anyone else see that Ovechkin had two goals in past two nights overturned by this dumb challenge rule?

He has to wait a little longer to overtake Federov as the highest scoring NHL Russki.

 

Justin Williams was the offending party on both.

 

In the spirit of full disclosure, I didn't see either, and maybe they were blatant, but I don't like this rule either.

[LGR4GM]

Anyone else see that Ovechkin had two goals in past two nights overturned by this dumb challenge rule?

He has to wait a little longer to overtake Federov as the highest scoring NHL Russki.

 

Justin Williams was the offending party on both.

 

In the spirit of full disclosure, I didn't see either, and maybe they were blatant, but I don't like this rule either.

They weren't really blatant.  This rule is absolute garbage. Offsides like holding in football should not be challengeable.  If you really need it to be say, within 10 seconds of the play entering the zone a goal is scored, if not flow of game.

[X. Benedict]

You won't get much argument. Maybe from Swamp. The league is killing a fly with a bazooka here. What you want to prevent is a blatant offside that immediately precedes a goal. How often does that happen? A handful of times a season? It. Is. Awful.

Nicely phrased. 

[SwampD]

You won't get much argument. Maybe from Swamp. The league is killing a fly with a bazooka here. What you want to prevent is a blatant offside that immediately precedes a goal. How often does that happen? A handful of times a season? It. Is. Awful.

I still think that guys are learning the rule. Once they do, you will see less offsides throughout the game, therefore actually improving the flow of the game. I'm pretty sure we've already seen it, but I can't find anywhere that tracks offsides per game.

[bob_sauve28]

I still think that guys are learning the rule. Once they do, you will see less offsides throughout the game, therefore actually improving the flow of the game. I'm pretty sure we've already seen it, but I can't find anywhere that tracks offsides per game.

Seriously? I very much doubt that. 

 

They will probably figure out that they can slip a few commercials into the break and the league will make more money and the rule will get locked in. 

 

  This is suppose to be  a fast fun GAME. But with crap like this its turning into a life or death legal struggle. Who gives a crap if they miss a few off sides a season. Bad calls happen, so what 

[LGR4GM]

I still think that guys are learning the rule. Once they do, you will see less offsides throughout the game, therefore actually improving the flow of the game. I'm pretty sure we've already seen it, but I can't find anywhere that tracks offsides per game.

the rule hasn't changed... they are just being super nazi's about the rule now.  9/10 times even if a guy is a hair offsides it doesn't give that team much of an advantage.  Offsides is designed so you can't camp in the offensive zone or cherry pick, not designed to see if a guys skate with a dick hair over the line before the puck.

[SwampD]

the rule hasn't changed... they are just being super nazi's about the rule now.  9/10 times even if a guy is a hair offsides it doesn't give that team much of an advantage.  Offsides is designed so you can't camp in the offensive zone or cherry pick, not designed to see if a guys skate with a dick hair over the line before the puck.

If the way a rule is enforced has changed, then the rule has changed.

 

Like I said previously, the only penalty before was a stoppage and a face-off. No big whoop. Guys would try to gain any little advantage and go offside countless times a game because, well, who cares, it's just a face off.

 

But now, if goals keep getting taken of the board, coaches (and players) are going get pissed and start to make sure that it doesn't happen.

 

I still think it will result in improving the overall flow of the game.

[qwksndmonster]

Players want to gain the offensive zone. I highly doubt that there will be fewer offsides in the future because of overturned goals. If players really start going offsides less it'll be because they aren't trying to carry as much speed into the O-zone. It's just something else to take goals off the board and slow the game down.

The NHL's bread and butter.

Edited November 13, 2015 by qwksndmonster

[sabresouth]

I've hated this rule from the beginning. Like its been said before, in football it works because the challenge is done immediately after that play (15-20 seconds tops). Hockey is a fast paced game and to add back sometimes minutes to the clock kills the flow. There will always be missed calls. Goals are allowed on much worse infractions that can't be reviewed.

[bob_sauve28]

Players want to gain the offensive zone. I highly doubt that there will be fewer offsides in the future because of overturned goals. If players really stsrt going offsides less it'll be because they aren't trying to carry as much speed into the O-zone. It's just something else to take goals off the board and slow the game down.

 

The NHL's bread and butter.

Hey! You don't see NFL players going offsides now that they get a 5 yard penalty for it...oh wait 

[LGR4GM]

Players want to gain the offensive zone. I highly doubt that there will be fewer offsides in the future because of overturned goals. If players really stsrt going offsides less it'll be because they aren't trying to carry as much speed into the O-zone. It's just something else to take goals off the board and slow the game down.

 

The NHL's bread and butter.

yup

[SwampD]

Players want to gain the offensive zone. I highly doubt that there will be fewer offsides in the future because of overturned goals. If players really stsrt going offsides less it'll be because they aren't trying to carry as much speed into the O-zone. It's just something else to take goals off the board and slow the game down.

 

The NHL's bread and butter.

I'm trying to figure out this logic. Isn't that the only way to not go offside?… and they already do that when they are waiting for the puck carrier to catch up.

 

And do you really not think that Bylsma is already drilling into their heads not to go offside?

 

We'll see. We're only less than twenty games into this rule. I like it and all I've heard from the other side is, "WAAAAAAAAAH!! I want my goal back!"

[LGR4GM]

I'm trying to figure out this logic. Isn't that the only way to not go offside?… and they already do that when they are waiting for the puck carrier to catch up.

 

And do you really not think that Bylsma is already drilling into their heads not to go offside?

 

We'll see. We're only less than twenty games into this rule. I like it and all I've heard from the other side is, "WAAAAAAAAAH!! I want my goal back!"

Offsides is like holding in football. It happens because flow of play. Sometimes it is egregious and needs to be called. But when it is so close it takes a coaches challenge and a long long replay to determine the guy was offsides because his skate was a fraction of an inch off the ice and then 40seconds later the team scores, that's just freaking stupid.

[PASabreFan]

I'm trying to figure out this logic. Isn't that the only way to not go offside?… and they already do that when they are waiting for the puck carrier to catch up.

 

And do you really not think that Bylsma is already drilling into their heads not to go offside?

 

We'll see. We're only less than twenty games into this rule. I like it and all I've heard from the other side is, "WAAAAAAAAAH!! I want my goal back!"

You're not listening hard enough. The fact the Sabres have been hurt by it twice plays a part, sure, but most posters most of the team are objecting for other reasons: it's overofficious, unnecessary, delays the game, sucks the soul out of the sport and so on.

[LGR4GM]

You're not listening hard enough. The fact the Sabres have been hurt by it twice plays a part, sure, but most posters most of the team are objecting for other reasons: it's overofficious, unnecessary, delays the game, sucks the soul out of the sport and so on.

this^

 

I really don't care they called back specifically 2 Sabre goals and I realized that when I saw the replay of Ovechkin's stuff.  I was like "really? this is dumb" and it really kills momentum.  All they need to do is say something like offsides can't be reviewed if the play stays in the offensive zone for 10 seconds prior to the goal being scored.  Fixed.

[qwksndmonster]

I'm trying to figure out this logic. Isn't that the only way to not go offside?… and they already do that when they are waiting for the puck carrier to catch up.

 

And do you really not think that Bylsma is already drilling into their heads not to go offside?

 

We'll see. We're only less than twenty games into this rule. I like it and all I've heard from the other side is, "WAAAAAAAAAH!! I want my goal back!"

Really? You haven't heard any of the well put complaints on the board by several different posters?

 

I really don't think that Bylsma is drilling into their heads not to go offside.  He preaches a fast game, and speed tends to lead to offsides.  I think (hope) he's telling the guys to keep up the speed through the neutral zone.

[SwampD]

You're not listening hard enough. The fact the Sabres have been hurt by it twice plays a part, sure, but most posters most of the team are objecting for other reasons: it's overofficious, unnecessary, delays the game, sucks the soul out of the sport and so on.

I'm listening. I'm just disagreeing. One extra stoppage (only if you win the challenge) every 8 games causes this much of an uproar? C'mon.

 

I guess I'll just have to wait until the end of the year when guys have learned that you can't go offside and the game flow is even better to comment about this.

 

Really? You haven't heard any of the well put complaints on the board by several different posters?

 

I really don't think that Bylsma is drilling into their heads not to go offside.  He preaches a fast game, and speed tends to lead to offsides.  I think (hope) he's telling the guys to keep up the speed through the neutral zone.

Yes, that's all I've heard. These threads only pop up when we are effected.

 

I look forward to the new thread about how awful this rule is when we win a challenge and it actually effects the outcome of a game (last night didn't).

Edited November 13, 2015 by SwampD

[darksabre]

You're not listening hard enough. The fact the Sabres have been hurt by it twice plays a part, sure, but most posters most of the team are objecting for other reasons: it's overofficious, unnecessary, delays the game, sucks the soul out of the sport and so on.

 

Correct. I don't like it in any capacity.

 

It's like using video review to overturn Balls and Strikes in baseball. 

[qwksndmonster]

Yes, that's all I've heard. These threads only pop up when we are effected.

 

I look forward to the new thread about how awful this rule is when we win a challenge and it actually effects the outcome of a game (last night didn't).

 

From the GDT for the season opener against Ottawa:

 

 

I can't believe any fan was asking for this, or even the players.  

Why on earth, in this dead puck era, are we putting in rules that will make it harder to score?

 

Were linesmen doing such a bad job that they needed more scrutiny? I think they do just fine. 

 

Anyone agreeing with that the spirit of that challenge is supporting a rule for the sake of rules. That's the tail wagging the dog. The Sabres gained no advantage on that play that was too close to call by a referee standing in perfect position 6 ft away.

 

If that's the way you want that rule to be enforced, Lord Almighty - you must have seizures with the uncalled interference, hooking, and slashing that goes on every 15 seconds.

 

I understand the opinion.

 

But, It is a ton different. Football stops every 12 seconds anyway. The beauty of hockey is that it has flow, players change on the fly, the constant motion. It isn't football. All stops in hockey should be minimized. 

 

- I agree that the replay rule is stupid. Every other league tweaks the rules every year to increase offense. Not the NHL.

 

 

As for the new replay rule, I think the split between posters here who hate it and those who support it it, is at its core (core!), a philosophical one, and an instinctive one to boot.

 

That whole process just struck me as wrong - contrary to the spirit and flow of the game. More than the prospect of losing the tying goal, I found myself dreading these stoppages generally.

 

This isn't football. This isn't baseball.

 

Sds's suggestion on real time review is well taken.

 

 

It was the right call according to this  unnecessary process the league created that I truly believe is bad for hockey. 

 

 

Ya know what it is? It's a return to the nightmare of crease reviews during the bad old days. Except now we're looking at heels of skates on the blue line instead of toes of skates on the crease line. That iconic image of the bug-eyed election supervisor in Florida inspecting the hanging chad comes to mind.

 

 

When it comes to playing hockey, I feel that there is a certain respect that players need to have for the random nature of the game.  You can make a great play in perfect position that ends up bouncing directly to the other team.  You can fight through an obvious hold and get called for a it yourself.  The best way to approach the game is to keep your feet moving no matter what random BS happens. The coach's challenge flies in the face of that particular spirit. It feels wrong.

 

But the NHL is a pro league, maybe the challenge isn't a bad thing to have. More data needed.

 

Yup.  Just a buncha butthurt Sabres fans there.

[X. Benedict]

You're not listening hard enough. The fact the Sabres have been hurt by it twice plays a part, sure, but most posters most of the team are objecting for other reasons: it's overofficious, unnecessary, delays the game, sucks the soul out of the sport and so on.

Seriously, if I'm watching two teams casually, because I just like hockey. I'm usually happy to see a goal, I think gee this game is getting interesting. Once the review Challenge starts I change the channel . I come back...5 minutes later. No goal. I've lost interest. Seriously, even last night I chAnged the channel to NFL twice. Guess when.

 

It's a tempo killing mechanism. The game is speed. But let's compromise its best qualities with pendantic redundancy.

The play stands! I've lost 5 minutes to know the call was a good call. Baa! Or the play was offside to a slow mo camera but not the naked eye. Aargh!

[SwampD]

From the GDT for the season opener against Ottawa:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup.  Just a buncha butthurt Sabres fans there.

Okay, next make a compilation of all the posts discussing this when the Sabre weren't effected. Wait, I'll do it for you-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and, done.

 

 

(Both our teams won last night and I'm really kinda salty today. I should probably put the internet down.)

[Weave]

 

I guess I'll just have to wait until the end of the year when guys have learned that you can't go offside and the game flow is even better to comment about this.

 

 

I think you are being overly optimistic.  None of those offsides plays were because a player was being casual entering the zone.

[LGR4GM]

Okay, next make a compilation of all the posts discussing this when the Sabre weren't effected. Wait, I'll do it for you-

 

 

and, done.

 

 

(Both our teams won last night and I'm really kinda salty today. I should probably put the internet down.)

flaw in your post is that we as a majority don't watch all the other NHL games.

Edited November 13, 2015 by LGR4GM