Eichel vs. McDavid

[Derrico]

The brilliance of the job GMTM has done so far isn't that he had the courage to tank.  I think Darcy was already going down that road (and did a good job to get liquid assets in the form of draft picks for expiring assets/free agents).  But Darcy would have tried to build through the draft and waited until those assets matured I think.  So Jack would have gotten here and would have floundered in a sea of Zadorovs, Guhles and Reinharts:  Good young players, but not ready for the big time.

 

GMTM took those carefully assembled assets and went on a buying spree.  He drafted two centers but acquired ROR (replacing a developing Grigo with a mature center).  He brought in plenty of depth of various levels of experience (steady veterans at the end of their careers, up-and-comers that will be a continuing part of the new core, rent-a-players to play short term roles until the good young players mature, etc.)  So when Jack got here, he wasn't the savior who was going to do it all (the Darcy model, not unlike the Edmonton model); his position is more being one a complementary piece that makes a good team much, much better.  So the team Jack got dropped into is much, much further along, personnel-wise, than Edmonton which has a bunch of high, but unrefined, 1st-line offensive players instead of a team built as an entire team.

Great post. 

 

There's some upset in the Zadorov/ROR trade thread that points out the 'redundancy' of bringing in another centre.  It was an excellent move by GMTM.  Jack Eichel is the future of this franchise and by insulating him with solid leadership and having the ability to shelter him where necessary, this will lead to strong development for him and all of our young guys which will still be promoted to the big club in the coming years.

[qwksndmonster]

Why?

Because he believes Eichel to be the better prospect period. While McDavid is adjusting to playing in the NHL against men, Jack is stronger and already accustomed to bigger, faster, and more talented players. I'm not saying DeLuca is wrong, but I definitely have a crush on him.

[LGR4GM]

Poor Connor:

 

http://www.si.com/nhl/2015/10/14/connor-mcdavid-edmonton-oilers-first-nhl-goal

 

Article title: Slow start, steep NHL learning curve wearing on Connor McDavid

 

Some excerpts: 

 

"He had some recurring problems in Dallas, including another miserable night in the circle (he's now clicking at 24.2 percent on the draw). And there was that appalling backcheck on Jason Spezza's late-third period game winner."

 

"He’s being overly cautious when it comes to leaving the zone, hesitating that extra moment to ensure that he doesn’t get caught going the wrong way on a turnover."

 

"To make the inevitable comparison, take a look at Jack Eichel in Buffalo. He clearly wants to be the man. He wants the puck. He wants to be the focus. The results have been immediate and spectacular."

 

 

Now I know that McDavid will figure it out and eventually be really good, but I think we lucked out and got the best player in the draft and the best player for our organization.  We needed a leader to lead us from the depths of the NHL.  Eichel has been amazing from the start and I'm so glad that we aren't having these same discussions as are being had about McDavid.  Especially since we're Buffalo and we tend to get carried away over-analyzing things quite often.  :w00t:

Idk if I said this in the Draft thread but I hope so.  Jack Eichel has this leadership swagger about him and this competiveness that I think Connor has but not as much of. Connor has been the greatest thing since slice bread for years. Jack has been highly touted but at each level he has had to work to prove how good he is.  I think Jack is mentally more mature and more of natural leader.

 

McDavid in the OHL playoffs showed that if you play him physically he gets frustrated and he reacts. Jack in the NCAA playoffs and at the World Championship showed more control IMPO.  He doesn't get overly flustered, Jack just get's more competitive.  Jack I think is desinged to thrive under pressure, he enjoys.  McDavid thus far seems to get annoyed by it.  Again we could be reading into things but I've always liked Jack's personality over Connor's

 

Put McDavid in the Sabres lineup and Jack in Edmonton.  Do they pan out the same through a handful of games?  Maybe Connor thrives because he's got enough of the right kind of support around him and assumes that "be the man" role seamlessly.  Maybe Jack seizes control in Edomonton but just doesn't have the right supporting cast and struggles.

 

I think part of it is the player himself, part of it is the supporting cast, and Edmonton hasn't done as good a job of assembling that supporting cast as Buffalo has, including veteran mentorship.

For the record, that's a Devil's Advocate argument.  I'm totally stoked we ended up with Eichel and I think he is (at this point, anyway) the better player.

I agree but I think Jack was the player Edmonton needed.  I also think Jack is the player Buffalo needed but I think Connor McDavid fits better on a team with 2-way forwards like Zemgus and ROR than he does on team that has Nail Yakupov as a winger.  Part of Jack's success so far is that Buffalo has a more well rounded team.  Also Jack has an elite shot and Connor doesn't.

 

As to the premise of seizing control in EDM.  I think Jack Eichel is more likely to emerge as a leader who is a force than Connor McDavid.  Jack hates losing with a fiery passion, he hates it. I don't get that same level of hatred from Connor.

 

Again still very early and I expect Connor Mcdavid to be fine (lol) but I loved since the lottery that we were getting Jack and I still love him on this team.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Idk if I said this in the Draft thread but I hope so.  Jack Eichel has this leadership swagger about him and this competiveness that I think Connor has but not as much of. Connor has been the greatest thing since slice bread for years. Jack has been highly touted but at each level he has had to work to prove how good he is.  I think Jack is mentally more mature and more of natural leader.

 

McDavid in the OHL playoffs showed that if you play him physically he gets frustrated and he reacts. Jack in the NCAA playoffs and at the World Championship showed more control IMPO.  He doesn't get overly flustered, Jack just get's more competitive.  Jack I think is desinged to thrive under pressure, he enjoys.  McDavid thus far seems to get annoyed by it.  Again we could be reading into things but I've always liked Jack's personality over Connor's

 

I agree but I think Jack was the player Edmonton needed.  I also think Jack is the player Buffalo needed but I think Connor McDavid fits better on a team with 2-way forwards like Zemgus and ROR than he does on team that has Nail Yakupov as a winger.  Part of Jack's success so far is that Buffalo has a more well rounded team.  Also Jack has an elite shot and Connor doesn't.

 

As to the premise of seizing control in EDM.  I think Jack Eichel is more likely to emerge as a leader who is a force than Connor McDavid.  Jack hates losing with a fiery passion, he hates it. I don't get that same level of hatred from Connor.

 

Again still very early and I expect Connor Mcdavid to be fine (lol) but I loved since the lottery that we were getting Jack and I still love him on this team.

When's the last time we had someone with an elite shot?  What a pleasure to test goalies for a change.  Stafford and Eichel were both number one picks by the Sabres.  Comparisons?

[MattPie]

When's the last time we had someone with an elite shot?  What a pleasure to test goalies for a change.  Stafford and Eichel were both number one picks by the Sabres.  Comparisons?

 

One was picked #2 overall, the other #13 overall; that's the most meaningful comparison.

[Redneck]

Thanks for the in person analysis of McDavid, much appreciated. I'm interested to know how Yak and Pouliot looked with him. Were they successful at all on zone entries, passes, or any sustained offensive zone presence (cycling down low, etc.), or was it McDavid carrying the line and being severely held back.

 

I can't wait for Yak to go back to Russia. I don't think him or, unrelated but Barkov, are anything special. Barkov is certainly better than Yak, but I think the Panthers will regret that pick

 

My pleasure!  I hit about 15+ Stars games/year (Sabres/Bills till I die though!)

 

I think the article/excerpts shown earlier in this thread makes sense -- I did not see them cycle down low as much as I would have thought.  On the offensive zone entries, I did not keep count, but my sense was not much success.  A few times, when the Stars had the puck in their zone, McDavid was the only forechecker.  Much of the game was played in the EDM zone -- Stars outshot EDM 52-28 (I was looking up after a shot waiting the count to hit 50!).  I saw very few battles in the corners with him, other than when he was first Oiler in the zone.

 

When I said I got the sense they were holding him back, and I read the article, I realize he did seem hesitant on entering the zone - which is strange because he certainly has the wheels and can catch up.

 

Just one game, but (other than a nice deflection) he did not do anything spectacular, where we see Eichel highlights of great passes, Kane just missing, etc.

 

We all know Eichel has NHL-speed/strength, and McDavid has NHL-speed, does he have the strength yet?

 

I do think McDavid will be spectacular though.  My only wish is that Eichel leads us to the cup earlier and more-often!

[Doohickie]

Stafford and Eichel were both number one picks by the Sabres.  Comparisons?

 

Obviously Stafford wasn't the highly touted talent at the draft that Eichel was.  But also if you look at where Staff fit into the scheme of things, The Sabres had solid leadership in Briere and Drury, talent slightly older than Staff in Vanek, Pommers, Connolly, Roy, etc., and then Staff was just behind them (timetable-wise).  The way things worked out, letting Drury and Briere go left a leadership void.  The team that remained had some talent, but no obvious seize-the-game-by-the-throat, we-can-win leader to carry them.  They had some decent guys but no outstanding guys.  And the decent guys were all superiors (age-wise) to Staff.  He was the junior member of the Rotten Core, and that doomed his tenure in Buffalo.  So even if he was a leader (which I don't think he ever was), that leadership potential was dashed by his situation on the team.

 

In contrast, Jack is an obviously leader, but he's also coming to a team that's been designed to complement him.  Although the Sabres have much better leadership now, it is a given that Jack will be (already is?) a part of the team's leadership.  But even without Eichel, GMTM has built the team to boldly win.

 

Darcy made sensible moves that, looked at in isolation, seemed wise, but when assembled were no more than a passable team.  They were built cautiously and tentatively and they were a cautious and tentative team.  This is what Stafford was dumped into.  Like I said, his Sabres tenure was doomed from the start.

[K-9]

The brilliance of the job GMTM has done so far isn't that he had the courage to tank.  I think Darcy was already going down that road (and did a good job to get liquid assets in the form of draft picks for expiring assets/free agents).  But Darcy would have tried to build through the draft and waited until those assets matured I think.  So Jack would have gotten here and would have floundered in a sea of Zadorovs, Guhles and Reinharts:  Good young players, but not ready for the big time.

 

GMTM took those carefully assembled assets and went on a buying spree.  He drafted two centers but acquired ROR (replacing a developing Grigo with a mature center).  He brought in plenty of depth of various levels of experience (steady veterans at the end of their careers, up-and-comers that will be a continuing part of the new core, rent-a-players to play short term roles until the good young players mature, etc.)  So when Jack got here, he wasn't the savior who was going to do it all (the Darcy model, not unlike the Edmonton model); his position is more being one a complementary piece that makes a good team much, much better.  So the team Jack got dropped into is much, much further along, personnel-wise, than Edmonton which has a bunch of high, but unrefined, 1st-line offensive players instead of a team built as an entire team.

Outstanding analysis here.

 

Eichel's maturity, personality, and character also seem to lend themselves to the cast Murray has assembled. Just a great fit. McDavid is at a huge disadvantage in that regard in Edmonton.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[thewookie1]

Eichel has teammates

McDavid has fellow Oiler players

 

Buffalo is built to be a Team of Players while Edmonton is a bunch of Players which are a Team.

 

Eichel's performance is insulated from the overall team's performance, if he has an off game he won't have the additional pressure of knowing he lost the game solely because he wasn't great for a night

McDavid very likely feels the weight of the Oilers season rests on his ability to quickly become a superstar

 

Eichel's linemates are known hard-workers and defensively responsible just in case he screws up allowing him to take a few chances here and there

McDavid is his line's defensive foward and has multiple "lazier" players around him thus making him hesitant to try anything

For instance Eichel will try the move on the opposing Dman knowing if he screws it up, Girgensons/Kane/Moulson/practically anyone on the team, will do their damnedest to cover up the hole, McDavid has to rely on Yakopov to cover for him.....

 

Eichel has Moulson, Gionta, Gorges, and Legwand to give him advice (Multi-time 30 goal scorer, hard worker and grew up with Tavares in a sense, a 50 goal scorer/American captain of Canadiens, Gutsy D-man whose Gionta's right hand man, and a guy with 1000+ gms and 600+ pts)

McDavid has Ference, Letestu, and Purcell (Aside from Ference being a good character, I highly doubt the other two can help more than our 3 others)

(30+ players)

[WildCard]

Eichel has teammates

McDavid has fellow Oiler players

 

Buffalo is built to be a Team of Players while Edmonton is a bunch of Players which are a Team.

 

Eichel's performance is insulated from the overall team's performance, if he has an off game he won't have the additional pressure of knowing he lost the game solely because he wasn't great for a night

McDavid very likely feels the weight of the Oilers season rests on his ability to quickly become a superstar

 

Eichel's linemates are known hard-workers and defensively responsible just in case he screws up allowing him to take a few chances here and there

McDavid is his line's defensive foward and has multiple "lazier" players around him thus making him hesitant to try anything

For instance Eichel will try the move on the opposing Dman knowing if he screws it up, Girgensons/Kane/Moulson/practically anyone on the team, will do their damnedest to cover up the hole, McDavid has to rely on Yakopov to cover for him.....

 

Eichel has Moulson, Gionta, Gorges, and Legwand to give him advice (Multi-time 30 goal scorer, hard worker and grew up with Tavares in a sense, a 50 goal scorer/American captain of Canadiens, Gutsy D-man whose Gionta's right hand man, and a guy with 1000+ gms and 600+ pts)

McDavid has Ference, Letestu, and Purcell (Aside from Ference being a good character, I highly doubt the other two can help more than our 3 others)

(30+ players)

B-e-a-utiful post wookie, very well done. Especially the bold

[K-9]

Eichel has teammates

McDavid has fellow Oiler players

 

Buffalo is built to be a Team of Players while Edmonton is a bunch of Players which are a Team.

 

Eichel's performance is insulated from the overall team's performance, if he has an off game he won't have the additional pressure of knowing he lost the game solely because he wasn't great for a night

McDavid very likely feels the weight of the Oilers season rests on his ability to quickly become a superstar

 

Eichel's linemates are known hard-workers and defensively responsible just in case he screws up allowing him to take a few chances here and there

McDavid is his line's defensive foward and has multiple "lazier" players around him thus making him hesitant to try anything

For instance Eichel will try the move on the opposing Dman knowing if he screws it up, Girgensons/Kane/Moulson/practically anyone on the team, will do their damnedest to cover up the hole, McDavid has to rely on Yakopov to cover for him.....

 

Eichel has Moulson, Gionta, Gorges, and Legwand to give him advice (Multi-time 30 goal scorer, hard worker and grew up with Tavares in a sense, a 50 goal scorer/American captain of Canadiens, Gutsy D-man whose Gionta's right hand man, and a guy with 1000+ gms and 600+ pts)

McDavid has Ference, Letestu, and Purcell (Aside from Ference being a good character, I highly doubt the other two can help more than our 3 others)

(30+ players)

More great stuff here.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Taro T]

The brilliance of the job GMTM has done so far isn't that he had the courage to tank.  I think Darcy was already going down that road (and did a good job to get liquid assets in the form of draft picks for expiring assets/free agents).  But Darcy would have tried to build through the draft and waited until those assets matured I think.  So Jack would have gotten here and would have floundered in a sea of Zadorovs, Guhles and Reinharts:  Good young players, but not ready for the big time.

 

GMTM took those carefully assembled assets and went on a buying spree.  He drafted two centers but acquired ROR (replacing a developing Grigo with a mature center).  He brought in plenty of depth of various levels of experience (steady veterans at the end of their careers, up-and-comers that will be a continuing part of the new core, rent-a-players to play short term roles until the good young players mature, etc.)  So when Jack got here, he wasn't the savior who was going to do it all (the Darcy model, not unlike the Edmonton model); his position is more being one a complementary piece that makes a good team much, much better.  So the team Jack got dropped into is much, much further along, personnel-wise, than Edmonton which has a bunch of high, but unrefined, 1st-line offensive players instead of a team built as an entire team.

While that's true, the rebuild through the draft isn't stressed enough in the "suffering" plan. The thing that would have damned this rebuild is most likely DR would have shed even more of the vets/ servicable pieces of a rebuild to get the absolute most youthful assets (picks/prospects) as possible to guarantee the 30th place finish last year.

 

Yes TM took them to 30th, but just by a few points and it wasn't clinched until game 81. DR would've had it clinched by the end of February and nothing last year would have come close to resembling hockey. TM did both: locked up McEichel and started building this year's team while the tire fire burned. Truly believe that DR would have waited until the charred rubber was cold before starting to rebuild out of fear he hadn't waited long enough. So glad he's gone.

[X. Benedict]

While that's true, the rebuild through the draft isn't stressed enough in the "suffering" plan. The thing that would have damned this rebuild is most likely DR would have shed even more of the vets/ servicable pieces of a rebuild to get the absolute most youthful assets (picks/prospects) as possible to guarantee the 30th place finish last year.

 

Yes TM took them to 30th, but just by a few points and it wasn't clinched until game 81. DR would've had it clinched by the end of February and nothing last year would have come close to resembling hockey. TM did both: locked up McEichel and started building this year's team while the tire fire burned. Truly believe that DR would have waited until the charred rubber was cold before starting to rebuild out of fear he hadn't waited long enough. So glad he's gone.

I don't think there is any way that Darcy would have pulled the trigger on any of the  Kane/Bogo, Lehner, and O'Reilly/McGinn trades. 

[LGR4GM]

I don't think there is any way that Darcy would have pulled the trigger on any of the  Kane/Bogo, Lehner, and O'Reilly/McGinn trades. 

Darcy would have wanted to keep the draft picks, all of them. We should figure out the DR roster to this point in our rebuild.

[Doohickie]

Darcy would have wanted to keep the draft picks, all of them. We should figure out the DR roster to this point in our rebuild.

 

What rebuild?  We'd still be acquiring assets.

[qwksndmonster]

Wookie, great stuff.

[LGR4GM]

I think this is a good time to recognize the growth of the Wookie.  He started with some really lopsided trades posted but in fairness it was because he loves his Sabres.  Now a days he's got some good posts.  Well done Wookie.

[Doohickie]

I think this is a good time to recognize the growth of the Wookie.  He started with some really lopsided trades posted but in fairness it was because he loves his Sabres.  Now a days he's got some good posts.  Well done Wookie.

 

Hear hear!

[Taro T]

I think this is a good time to recognize the growth of the Wookie.  He started with some really lopsided trades posted but in fairness it was because he loves his Sabres.  Now a days he's got some good posts.  Well done Wookie.

Seeing an intern here? ;)

[dudacek]

[thewookie1]

Like the team I've been working on acquiring better players for the seasons ahead. :)

[...]

Great posts, folks. Leaves me with nothing to add.

[X. Benedict]

I think this is a good time to recognize the growth of the Wookie.  He started with some really lopsided trades posted but in fairness it was because he loves his Sabres.  Now a days he's got some good posts.  Well done Wookie.

He's, sniff, sniff, just growing up so fast.

 

We love ya, Wook. 

[Jsixspd]

Didn't see this posted - apologies if it's already been shared;   ESPN has a nice tracker going on the two stars

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/13716952/tracking-connor-mcdavid-jack-eichel-their-rookie-seasons

[WildCard]

Didn't see this posted - apologies if it's already been shared;   ESPN has a nice tracker going on the two stars

 

 

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/13716952/tracking-connor-mcdavid-jack-eichel-their-rookie-seasons

This is awesome, and incredible considering it's coming from espn. Thanks Jsixspd