Patrick Kane: [Updated] D.A. Decides Not to Prosecute; NHL Determines Claims "Unfounded"

[Weave]

I'll say this, more and more he seems a genuine sociopath.  Our rules and mores don't seem to apply to him.

[Johnny DangerFace]

The trick here is that we don't know any facts. We know nothing about the case beyond that it exists. But even if those hypotheticals were based on facts, and they may never be if this case involves a minor where records might be kept sealed, it's bad form to postulate on all the ways in which a potential rape victim might be lying. Is it possible? Yes. Does it matter at all right now? No.

 

I don't think it actually matters at all in this case, as I don't believe New York allows a mistake of age defense.  

 

 

 

§ 15.20 Effect of ignorance or mistake upon liability

3. Notwithstanding the use of the term “knowingly” in any provision of this chapter defining an offense in which the age of a child is an element thereof, knowledge by the defendant of the age of such child is not an element of any such offense and it is not, unless expressly so provided, a defense to a prosecution therefor that the defendant did not know the age of the child or believed such age to be the same as or greater than that specified in the statute.

 

 

 

And my only point in posting this is that there has been some discussion about mistaking the age of the victim.  No biggie

Edited August 6, 2015 by Johnny DangerFace

[Mustache of God]

Is this gonna draw any heat away from Ryan O'Reilly?

[darksabre]

Is this gonna draw any heat away from Ryan O'Reilly?

Why?

[3putt]

Is this gonna draw any heat away from Ryan O'Reilly?

who?

[drnkirishone]

I know this is going to sound creepy..... I keep hearing he met a 17 year old. If i understand correctly 17 can give concent. So this means she had to be 16 or under not 17.

Edited August 6, 2015 by drnkirishone

[Sabresince70]

One quick fix - it is "presumed" innocent until proven guilty.  ex. someone walks into a mini mart, steals a pack of gum. That person is guilty, but should be "presumed" innocent by jury (and public) until after trial. By the way, no one is actually found "innocent" at trial - it is either guilty or not guilty.  This was only a response to the wording and not to anyone's opinion about Kane.

 

One other observation from a different view point. How the original report was written (from the interview of the victim when she walked into the PD) tends to have a large impact that the direction of the investigation goes. I would hope that whichever department originally handled the interview would have specific officers that handle those cases, but they may not. Some departments do nothing more than the original intake due to their size  (we have 9 officers total in the dept.), in which case (here in PA) it gets handed over to the DA and they have detectives that specialize. 

 

My point is if I write (in the narrative of the report) "victim states...." as opposed to "victim alleges..." it can be seen as two different meanings. it is unfortunate, but it is true. The actions taken immediately after the victim walks in (contacts the police, whatever) matters. 

 

Oh, besides working for a municipality, I also work for a college PD - (free tuition for my daughters). Been around many of these type cases (substitute too much alcohol/drugs to give consent for age). Some victims come in tears and some come in almost laughing. You would be surprised how people (especially young people) act/react to being a victim or to falsely accusing someone. 

Edited August 6, 2015 by Sabresince70

[Hoss]

I know this is going to sound creepy..... I keep hearing he met a 17 year old. If i understand correctly 17 can give concent. So this means she had to be 16 or under not 17.

There is nothing definitively indicating the age of the alleged victim.

[drnkirishone]

There is nothing definitively indicating the age of the alleged victim.

I know nothing has come out to say this. What I am saying is if she is "underage" as some signs are pointing to. It means she is 16 or younger... unless I am misunderstanding something with the laws in nys

[wjag]

There is nothing.... NOTHING... about this allegation to indicate that it is fabricated.

 

There is nothing about this allegation to indicate that it is fabricated.

 

NOTHING.

 

Every single piece of speculation that the allegation is not credible does a disservice to the accuser and adds nothing to society, nor this discussion. NOTHING.

 

Every piece of speculation that the allegation is not credible is an insensitive, unnecessary and inappropriate additional attack on a woman who may have just been raped, and adds nothing to society or this discussion. 

 

PLEASE STOP.

 

 

Thank you.

[josie]

There is nothing.... NOTHING... about this allegation to indicate that it is fabricated.

 

There is nothing about this allegation to indicate that it is fabricated.

 

NOTHING.

 

Every single piece of speculation that the allegation is not credible does a disservice to the accuser and adds nothing to society, nor this discussion. NOTHING.

 

Every piece of speculation that the allegation is not credible is an insensitive, unnecessary and inappropriate additional attack on a woman who may have just been raped, and adds nothing to society or this discussion. 

 

PLEASE STOP.

<3

[qwksndmonster]

There is a tendency on this board (and everywhere) to assume facts out of thin air whenever a story like this breaks.  We were talking about the .08 BAC limit when the ROR vs. TH's thing went down and a lot of posters started assuming it was reported that he blew a .08.

 

Now in this thread we have people assuming that it was reported that the girl was 17 because that's the age of consent.

[musichunch]

That's not a sufficient excuse. Yes, assumed guilt is a problem in the media. It's a product of gossip exploitation. But fighting back with theories that dismiss rape allegations is not the way to combat that problem. It's just more fuel on the burning corpse of reason and moderation.

 

There is nothing.... NOTHING... about this allegation to indicate that it is fabricated.

 

There is nothing about this allegation to indicate that it is fabricated.

 

NOTHING.

 

Every single piece of speculation that the allegation is not credible does a disservice to the accuser and adds nothing to society, nor this discussion. NOTHING.

 

Every piece of speculation that the allegation is not credible is an insensitive, unnecessary and inappropriate additional attack on a woman who may have just been raped, and adds nothing to society or this discussion. 

 

PLEASE STOP.

 

I feel like there's an attempt to silence people giving hypotheticals. Or at least silence anybody who's not saying

 

1. "We must not make any comments until the facts come out"

2. Completely side with the accuser

 

What is wrong with people pointing out that sometimes there are false accusations? What is wrong with people painting common scenarios that could lead to a rape accusation? 

 

Why are we being thought policed right now?

[That Aud Smell]

Cos it's a highly sensitive subject.

[LastPommerFan]

This is the ONLY crime where half the people immediately jump to creating scenarios where it is the Victim's fault.

 

The Misogyny is palpable.

 

When someone has their car stolen, we don't jump to "they may have left their keys in the car and a note that says 'free ride'"

 

When someone is hit by a drunk driver, we don't jump to "they probably jumped out into traffic"

 

When someone is mugged, we don't jump to "I'll bet they just gave the guy the money, and then wanted it back afterwards."

 

I will thought police the out of misogyny, intentional or not, conscious or subconscious, because I love women and I'm absolutely sick and tired of so many men having such contempt for them.

[Hoss]

Echoing the support other's are giving for Whiskey's post. There is no wiggle room for jokes or assumptions about a victim in a rape case. If you have to hesitate to say it then don't.

[musichunch]

Cos it's a highly sensitive subject.

 

Sensitive or not, I don't believe in attempting to silence and police people's opinions and thoughts.

[LastPommerFan]

Sensitive or not, I don't believe in attempting to silence and police people's opinions and thoughts.

 

 

Sure you do, you're doing it right now.

[Hoss]

Sensitive or not, I don't believe in attempting to silence and police people's opinions and thoughts.

Is it REALLY the hard to err on the side of caution and not insinuate that the accuser is just fabricating what would otherwise likely be the most traumatizing event of their life? Insinuating that it's anything but a legitimate claim is doing just that. Is your need to speculate and talk really THAT strong that it trumps any sort of humanity?

 

It's fine if you want to say "we don't have the facts yet" or if you hear a reported fact and discuss said fact in cases like this, but just pulling in completely unrelated scenarios to attempt to show why this woman may be lying for some reason is unneeded and potentially damaging. If you want to wait for facts before damning Kane that's fine. You're probably right for doing that.

[musichunch]

Sure you do, you're doing it right now.

 

Says the person who posted this:

 

 

There is nothing.... NOTHING... about this allegation to indicate that it is fabricated.

 

There is nothing about this allegation to indicate that it is fabricated.

 

NOTHING.

 

Every single piece of speculation that the allegation is not credible does a disservice to the accuser and adds nothing to society, nor this discussion. NOTHING.

 

Every piece of speculation that the allegation is not credible is an insensitive, unnecessary and inappropriate additional attack on a woman who may have just been raped, and adds nothing to society or this discussion. 

 

PLEASE STOP.

[LastPommerFan]

Says the person who posted this:

 

I'm ok with it.

[musichunch]

Is it REALLY the ###### hard to err on the side of caution and not insinuate that the accuser is just fabricating what would otherwise likely be the most traumatizing event of their life? Insinuating that it's anything but a legitimate claim is doing just that. Is your need to speculate and talk really THAT strong that it trumps any sort of humanity?

 

It's fine if you want to say "we don't have the facts yet" or if you hear a reported fact and discuss said fact in cases like this, but just pulling in completely unrelated scenarios to attempt to show why this woman may be lying for some reason is unneeded and potentially damaging. If you want to wait for facts before damning Kane that's fine. You're probably right for doing that.

 

Did you not post this at the beginning of the thread:

 

 

 

Now you guys have a name. The charges won't be too far off.

 

If it's true Kane is dead to me. 

[Hoss]

Did you not post this at the beginning of the thread:

Aaaaaand? "If it's true." It's a fair statement to say that if somebody did indeed rape another person they are "dead" in your mind. It wasn't an assumption of guilt or anything else.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Hoss

[musichunch]

Aaaaaand? "If it's true."

 

I never insinuated anything. If what I did was insinuate, then what you did was way more direct. That was my point for posting that.

 

My grave concern in this thread is that any potential defense of the accused is being silenced under the guise of "sensitivity". If people want to speculate, they should be able to. 

 

As for "erring on the side of caution". That's not my job. I'm not a lawyer or a police officer. I believe in letting people speak what's on their minds. Not quieting them.

[bunomatic]

Patty Kane. asssed luck dude. Time to grow up was 5 years ago.

 

ROR s transgression pales.