PASabreFan Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 That is the most well thought and well written piece on this topic that I have seen so far. Massive strawman. He creates this awful bogeyman that he has to valiantly slay. Sorry to channel Sizzle here, but... WHO? Who is he chastising? Maybe the story is playing differently in Chicago, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Sod off with that. I don't really want to think about whether and how home security cameras would convey whether any sex was forcible or consensual. But I take your point. Is there is footage, my bet is it would be perhaps arguably and/or circumstantially corroborative of the charges. Not unlike the Hernandez case. Well, for example, Derek Jeter is known for recording all of his sexual encounters for the sole purpose of proving consent if necessary. Massive strawman. He creates this awful bogeyman that he has to valiantly slay. Sorry to channel Sizzle here, but... WHO? Who is he chastising? Maybe the story is playing differently in Chicago, I don't know. Twitterers, facebook posters, commenters on websites who are saying some pretty ugly things. Edited August 7, 2015 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 That is the most well thought and well written piece on this topic that I have seen so far. On another point, I haven't heard anything more about cameras, video, etc. I would think that if there was anything especially damning or especially exculpatory, we'd know about it by now. Basically Baffoe has already made up his mind regardless of what comes out of this and he's not open to any possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Well, for example, Derek Jeter is known for recording all of his sexual encounters for the sole purpose of proving consent if necessary. I am now picturing Jeter as Dennis from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Massive strawman. He creates this awful bogeyman that he has to valiantly slay. Sorry to channel Sizzle here, but... WHO? Who is he chastising? Maybe the story is playing differently in Chicago, I don't know. Given what I've heard and read about what's going on in CHI-town AM radio and message boards, that is no strawman he's attacking. Well, for example, Derek Jeter is known for recording all of his sexual encounters for the sole purpose of proving consent if necessary. That's a sight different than home security footage. Also: Ew. Thirdly, good to know Jeter is a Chappelle fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Basically Baffoe has already made up his mind regardless of what comes out of this and he's not open to any possibilities. That's not what I took from it, but I can see how you could take it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Massive strawman. He creates this awful bogeyman that he has to valiantly slay. Sorry to channel Sizzle here, but... WHO? Who is he chastising? Maybe the story is playing differently in Chicago, I don't know. He was specifically addressing people who are more concerned with the implications to Patrick Kane's career than the female involved. They self-identify and are the same people who came out here in support for Ray Rice here in Baltimore. However, none of those people are in this thread from what I have seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 That's some awful dreck right there. Abso-friggin-lutely. "The rape culture we live in." What a load of PC-feminist-gender-studies crap. "It does not exonerate him from what he and his accuser know happened between them." It doesn't even occur to him that Kane might be innocent. If the video clearly showed rape or clearly showed consensual sex, the investigation would be over, is what I inartfully was trying to convey. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 He was specifically addressing people who are more concerned with the implications to Patrick Kane's career than the female involved. They self-identify and are the same people who came out here in support for Ray Rice here in Baltimore. However, none of those people are in this thread from what I have seen. How many people can that possibly be? Are we defining ourselves as a culture based on how a small number of people behave anonymously online? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 How many people can that possibly be? Are we defining ourselves as a culture based on how a small number of people behave anonymously online? Enough that a writer took the time to address it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 "The rape culture we live in." What a load of PC-feminist-gender-studies crap. I better understand where you're coming from now. I think you're turning a blind eye, and being a bit weirdly insensitive to some very serious issues. But I better understand your view of the matter. How many people can that possibly be? Are we defining ourselves as a culture based on how a small number of people behave anonymously online? Answering each question in turn: Far more than I'd care to contemplate. No. But that's no strawman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Abso-friggin-lutely. "The rape culture we live in." What a load of PC-feminist-gender-studies crap. "It does not exonerate him from what he and his accuser know happened between them." It doesn't even occur to him that Kane might be innocent. I definitely can see how these quotes detract from the piece and distract from the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 He was specifically addressing people who are more concerned with the implications to Patrick Kane's career than the female involved. They self-identify and are the same people who came out here in support for Ray Rice here in Baltimore. However, none of those people are in this thread from what I have seen. Of course they are. 1. Nobody knows who she is. 2. Rape is a serious accusation. 3. No matter the outcome his career will be changed forever because he is one of the biggest names in sports. There isn't one person (at least I'm hopig there's not) that will support Kane IF he is found guilty. The ones that talk about the implications aren't necessarily concerned about Kane's career, they're concerned about accusers not knowing the seriousness of such an accusation if it wasn't 100% legitimate. Ray Rice beat up his wife, it was on video. To compare the people that supported Ray Rice to the people that talk about the possibility of innocence on Kane's part is absurd. At this point if there was any video of what Kane did I highly doubt you would see anybody supporting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I definitely can see how these quotes detract from the piece and distract from the message. He's a columnist. He doesn't have the time or space to expound on that sort of issue. But, yeah. It is a bit of a hand grenade. He probably could've framed that better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) That's not what I took from it, but I can see how you could take it that way. I agree there was more to the story. The selfishness of a pro athlete for instance makes perfect sense. People put pro athletes on a pedestal when sometimes they shouldn't be there nor should the fans pretend like they are above all. I just got the impression that he's already made his mind up on Kane. Which is something the media should be refraiing from. Edited August 7, 2015 by JJFIVEOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I better understand where you're coming from now. I think you're turning a blind eye, and being a bit weirdly insensitive to some very serious issues. But I better understand your view of the matter. There should be no doubt that rape is a serious matter. I have a daughter -- if this happened to her I'd want to throw the perpetrator off a bridge. But I also have a son who is (hopefully!) going to college in a few years. And not only do I not want him to fill his head with "rape culture," "trigger warnings" and similar BS, I hate the idea of him being at risk of being subjected to the same, demonstrably false, witchhunt that we've seen recently at Duke, UVA and Columbia -- an approach that, btw, the bozos in Washington have encouraged all colleges to adopt. I also resent, and find well beneath the level of conversation I expect here, being called a misogynist for pointing out that a rape accuser may not be telling the truth. It's of a piece with being called a racist for criticizing the president. In both cases there is a refusal to engage on the underlying issue in favor of an attempt to stifle dissent via character assassination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I definitely can see how these quotes detract from the piece and distract from the message. attaching "culture" to the issue is polarizing and quite frankly, I find using the word a disservice because it probably creates more backlash than it should be. I don't live in a rape culture. Others might. I just read a list of 25 examples of our "rape culture" and I pretty much have no experience/exposure to any of them. I presume nfreeman lives a similar existence. What I do know is that asking people to stop talking is the opposite of what should happen. When is the last time anyone changed their mind in the absence of evidence and debate? How is someone going to move from "She shouldn't dress that way" to "It's my responsibility" unless their opinions are voiced and then challenged? And that's the real danger that has been attempted to be foisted upon us by a gaggle do-gooders. They are too enamored with their own goodness and self-righteousness to actually see they are unwittingly a part of the problem - not the solution they claim to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 There should be no doubt that rape is a serious matter. I have a daughter -- if this happened to her I'd want to throw the perpetrator off a bridge. But I also have a son who is (hopefully!) going to college in a few years. And not only do I not want him to fill his head with "rape culture," "trigger warnings" and similar BS, I hate the idea of him being at risk of being subjected to the same, demonstrably false, witchhunt that we've seen recently at Duke, UVA and Columbia -- an approach that, btw, the bozos in Washington have encouraged all colleges to adopt. I also resent, and find well beneath the level of conversation I expect here, being called a misogynist for pointing out that a rape accuser may not be telling the truth. It's of a piece with being called a racist for criticizing the president. In both cases there is a refusal to engage on the underlying issue in favor of an attempt to stifle dissent via character assassination. Do you think your son has a responsibility to watch out for himself though? To make decisions that would protect him from being accused of something that might not be easily dismissed when facts are presented? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Do you think your son has a responsibility to watch out for himself though? To make decisions that would protect him from being accused of something that might not be easily dismissed when facts are presented? A lot of universities have both moved to a guilty-until-proven-innocent system and suspension of meaningful due process when it comes to sexual assault allegations. If I had a son, I'd share nfreeman's fears on this. Someone told me last night that Laurence Tribe wrote a letter to Harvard administrators condemning its new system. I'm looking for it. EDIT: Here we go: http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2014/10/15/law-profs-criticize-new-policy/ That is likely an article about the letter in question; Tribe's name is not mentioned. EDIT 2: And here is the letter: http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2014/10/14/rethink-harvard-sexual-harassment-policy/HFDDiZN7nU2UwuUuWMnqbM/story.html Edited August 7, 2015 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) But I also have a son who is (hopefully!) going to college in a few years. And not only do I not want him to fill his head with "rape culture," "trigger warnings" and similar BS, I hate the idea of him being at risk of being subjected to the same, demonstrably false, witchhunt that we've seen recently at Duke, UVA and Columbia -- an approach that, btw, the bozos in Washington have encouraged all colleges to adopt. You needn't fill his head with anything. He's a good guy, and, barring some weird and rare misfortune (like being struck with a PC lightning bolt), he will be fine. Edit: Unless, of course, he attends a college that has done away with due process. Yikes. The witch hunts to which you refer are hardly some sort of pandemic. They get a lot of run in the media because they get people all exercised. To the extent there are over corrections, they are in response to a very real and entrenched set of problems that have caused (and are still causing) many 1000s of women to be mistreated and ignored. Edit: Is this true? Do allegations of sexual assault commonly get a male student automatically suspended from University classes/activities? I also resent, and find well beneath the level of conversation I expect here, being called a misogynist for pointing out that a rape accuser may not be telling the truth. Were you called that? Edited August 7, 2015 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 There are girls under 18 who like to have sex and look older than 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 A lot of universities have both moved to a guilty-until-proven-innocent system and suspension of meaningful due process when it comes to sexual assault allegations. If I had a son, I'd share nfreeman's fears on this. Someone told me last night that Laurence Tribe wrote a letter to Harvard administrators condemning its new system. I'm looking for it. Well sh!t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 A lot of universities have both moved to a guilty-until-proven-innocent system and suspension of meaningful due process when it comes to sexual assault allegations. If I had a son, I'd share nfreeman's fears on this. Someone told me last night that Laurence Tribe wrote a letter to Harvard administrators condemning its new system. I'm looking for it. Just as many universities are completely dismissive of any kind of meaningful pursuit of rape allegations as well. There's a lot of confusion when it comes to how to treat this stuff and I don't think anyone is doing it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Reading a little bit on Tribe's letter. Man. That is some stuff. And if frickin' Harvard's bungling the issues - what hope can I hold out for, say, Wichita State or Bowling Green? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 There are girls under 18 who like to have sex and look older than 18. Are they 17 and do they like older men? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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