LastPommerFan Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 His daddy is one of the top handful of influences on the breed. Bold Ruler does a lot through the female scope too. A key aspect to breeding is lining up similar family traits. It can be bad....like in dog breeding where you get inbred puppies and more health issues. You get that in horses too. Bold Ruler however is one of the prefered exceptions. If I see a horse that has Bold Ruler 3x3 or 5x5 (don't ask me why the odd years seem to work better), I feel good about it. So sadly, it would be like having 2 cousins mating....but for some reason, it works out well for Bold Ruler's family. I'm pulling up other video and bawling. Japan has a setup where they let 100 people own a tiny bit of a horse. I truly think for the sport to fly again here, there needs to be someone to step up and let that happen. It's a pain in the butt to think about dealing with everyone, but just look how cooky Sabres season ticket holders are. If you feel you have a vested interest in something, no matter how small, you do irrational things. Imagine how giddy those ticket holders would be if they could make money by going to the games? The problem is, the coach and players don't benefit by having 16,000 at practice every day, and I'm sure Tim Murray doesn't want to take 16,000 phone calls. To me though, anyone that meets the horses and gets to understand them is a vested fan. Do US horses need to be owned by a specific person, or can their ownership be incorporated and then broken into shares? Like a "Take Charge Lady Holding Company, llc." or similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 His daddy is one of the top handful of influences on the breed. Bold Ruler does a lot through the female scope too. A key aspect to breeding is lining up similar family traits. It can be bad....like in dog breeding where you get inbred puppies and more health issues. You get that in horses too. Bold Ruler however is one of the prefered exceptions. If I see a horse that has Bold Ruler 3x3 or 5x5 (don't ask me why the odd years seem to work better), I feel good about it. So sadly, it would be like having 2 cousins mating....but for some reason, it works out well for Bold Ruler's family. I'm pulling up other video and bawling. Japan has a setup where they let 100 people own a tiny bit of a horse. I truly think for the sport to fly again here, there needs to be someone to step up and let that happen. It's a pain in the butt to think about dealing with everyone, but just look how cooky Sabres season ticket holders are. If you feel you have a vested interest in something, no matter how small, you do irrational things. Imagine how giddy those ticket holders would be if they could make money by going to the games? The problem is, the coach and players don't benefit by having 16,000 at practice every day, and I'm sure Tim Murray doesn't want to take 16,000 phone calls. To me though, anyone that meets the horses and gets to understand them is a vested fan. Do US horses need to be owned by a specific person, or can their ownership be incorporated and then broken into shares? Like a "Take Charge Lady Holding Company, llc." or similar? Wasn't there a horse in recent memory that had a ton of owners? I remember it being during the Red and Black years and that the Sabres were relevant when the Derby was on. And at my friends' house after they were married, so that pretty much nails it down to 2006, right? The owners showed up to the race in a school bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 19, 2015 Report Share Posted May 19, 2015 Do US horses need to be owned by a specific person, or can their ownership be incorporated and then broken into shares? Like a "Take Charge Lady Holding Company, llc." or similar? You can have an LLC, and that is how a lot of mass partnerships form. There is a managing partner and everyone else goes for the ride. The premium you pay as a partner is 100% in some of the more popular ones. They usually afford you the rights of any owner....but a 5-10K buy-in is the low end norm. A person or persons can own a horse. Usually most states don't make you register as an individual unless you have a 5%-10% stake. Then you just run it as a business on a schedule C for tax purposes. The LLC helps for liability, but the barns all have workman's comp, and some states take a huge hunk out every time you race....so an individual is fine. Wasn't there a horse in recent memory that had a ton of owners? I remember it being during the Red and Black years and that the Sabres were relevant when the Derby was on. And at my friends' house after they were married, so that pretty much nails it down to 2006, right? The owners showed up to the race in a school bus. Yeah.....Funny Cide. A group of guys threw in a few thousand each and hit the jackpot. The bus was "friends" and such...but I think it was only 5 or 6 actual owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Strike up the Sinatra! Belmont time. Box pharaoh with materiality and frosted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 TRIPLE CROWN! I SAW ONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Glad that it finally happened. That was fun. Now let's finally end animal sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Well. What'dya'know. Triple crown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Glad that it finally happened. That was fun. Now let's finally end animal sports. Why? That was awesome, pretty cool to watch history live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I honestly wasn't sure I was going to see one of those. Awesome. Next up: major Buffalo sports championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Why? Animal abuse. There's extensive abuse involved in every major (and non-major, for that matter) animal sport. Plus they're just slaves to our entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 TRIPLE CROWN! I SAW ONE! Happy for you! I saw 3 in five years as a teenager and took it for granted. 47 years goes by quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I sense a controversy a-brewin'. *pops popcorn* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Animal abuse. There's extensive abuse involved in every major (and non-major, for that matter) animal sport. Plus they're just slaves to our entertainment. The animal abuse is a problem if it's true (I honestly don't know), but slaves to our entertainment? Come on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 The animal abuse is a problem if it's true (I honestly don't know), but slaves to our entertainment? Come on The slaves comment might have been dramatic, but the animal abuse is obvious and real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Animal abuse. There's extensive abuse involved in every major (and non-major, for that matter) animal sport. Plus they're just slaves to our entertainment. While abuse is certainly an issue, as Josie will note with all the ex race horses that come through her rescue, I think there's something to be said for giving animals a purpose beyond being food or pets. There's some glory for those animals. How cool is that? I love my cat but he doesn't do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 While abuse is certainly an issue, as Josie will note with all the ex race horses that come through her rescue, I think there's something to be said for giving animals a purpose beyond being food or pets. There's some glory for those animals. How cool is that? I love my cat but he doesn't do anything. Human glory. Who is to say these animals need glory beyond the lives they already live? Giving them value to humans, in my opinion, doesn't justify the abuse. There might be a few moments where the animals might feel the excitement of what they've done (I doubt it), but there are a very select few that get the opportunity to do anything major. The sacrifices of many for the excitement of humans and possible brief moments of a few animals isn't worth it in my mind. I have a bigger problem with bull fighting and bull sports, but horse racing is still one of the many that falls in that category. My only connections to horse racing and professional riding that I know of is that I know two families that engaged in them. The family that rode professionally loved it but weren't afraid to note that many other riders/owners were obviously neglectful of the animals. The family that attempted to get into horse racing basically ran scared because they saw and were told of the abuse they would be putting their horses through. I just don't think there's any arguing about the abuse. Whether you value the animals in a way that makes you think they should be saved the abuse is a different story (I tried wording that in a way as to not make it seem smug or that I'm saying my opinion is superior, because I don't mean to. I don't know enough on the subject to take that position). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Pretty amazing to watch a triple crown winner. Such a rare accomplishment. And, now he gets to retire to stud... http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/06/news/companies/american-pharoah-stud-fees/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Human glory. Who is to say these animals need glory beyond the lives they already live? Giving them value to humans, in my opinion, doesn't justify the abuse. There might be a few moments where the animals might feel the excitement of what they've done (I doubt it), but there are a very select few that get the opportunity to do anything major. The sacrifices of many for the excitement of humans and possible brief moments of a few animals isn't worth it in my mind. I have a bigger problem with bull fighting and bull sports, but horse racing is still one of the many that falls in that category. My only connections to horse racing and professional riding that I know of is that I know two families that engaged in them. The family that rode professionally loved it but weren't afraid to note that many other riders/owners were obviously neglectful of the animals. The family that attempted to get into horse racing basically ran scared because they saw and were told of the abuse they would be putting their horses through. I just don't think there's any arguing about the abuse. Whether you value the animals in a way that makes you think they should be saved the abuse is a different story (I tried wording that in a way as to not make it seem smug or that I'm saying my opinion is superior, because I don't mean to. I don't know enough on the subject to take that position). I'll ask this: would horses be extinct were it not for their sporting use? Because they don't really have another purpose at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'll ask this: would horses be extinct were it not for their sporting use? Because they don't really have another purpose at this point. You mean they don't really have a purpose as assigned by humans. What purpose do whales have? How about turkey buzzards? Or the Irish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'll ask this: would horses be extinct were it not for their sporting use? Because they don't really have another purpose at this point. This question would be more suited for somebody far more knowledgeable on horses and animals in general, but my first thought is to say that plenty of animals live with no human purpose. Plenty of them go extinct and plenty of them don't. I'm not sure which way horses would go if not for sporting use. As far as the animal kingdom goes I think humans should leave it alone as much as possible. When we have the resources to easily preserve an animal's existence without changing the way they live too drastically then I think we should do it... Otherwise we should let them live as they do as much as possible. When human in life is in danger then I'm okay with measures being taken to prevent harm, but that's about it. (This isn't a statement about hunting, I won't discuss hunting because I haven't really developed much of an opinion either way as far as hunting for food goes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanbe Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) I sense a controversy a-brewin'. *pops popcorn* should I put out the chairs out in the lot for the b@tch fight in the parking lot? It was nice to see the first triple crown winner since I was 17. Edited June 6, 2015 by Jeanbe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 should I put out the chairs out in the lot for the b@tch fight in the parking lot? It was nice to see the first triple crown winner since I was 17. There's been some comments in the "making SS friendlier" thread about things like this. Just because two posters are having a well-mannered discussion (wouldn't even call this a debate because D4rk is just asking good questions that I'm attempting to respond to) doesn't mean it's a "bitch fight." People can have heated discussions on a subject without it being a fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 You mean they don't really have a purpose as assigned by humans. What purpose do whales have? How about turkey buzzards? Or the Irish? The Irish have the most treasured purpose on earth. They make whiskey. There's been some comments in the "making SS friendlier" thread about things like this. Just because two posters are having a well-mannered discussion (wouldn't even call this a debate because D4rk is just asking good questions that I'm attempting to respond to) doesn't mean it's a "bitch fight." People can have heated discussions on a subject without it being a fight... She was trying for humor. I find bull fighting distasteful. I have no issue with racing. If there is abuse, that is what the racing organizations should be concentrating on. At this point I expect that those horses, not unlike dog breeds and their bred in traits, really need the purpose of racing. Just as a Bernese Mountain dog really does need to be tasked with protection of a herd, I expect that thoroughbreds at this point need the chase. I have no experience with it. But I do know that dogs need to be tasked with what they are bred to do. And I can easily see this as the case with other domesticated animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 The Irish have the most treasured purpose on earth. They make whiskey. She was trying for humor. I find bull fighting distasteful. I have no issue with racing. If there is abuse, that is what the racing organizations should be concentrating on. At this point I expect that those horses, not unlike dog breeds and their bred in traits, really need the purpose of racing. Just as a Bernese Mountain dog really does need to be tasked with protection of a herd, I expect that thoroughbreds at this point need the chase. I have no experience with it. But I do know that dogs need to be tasked with what they are bred to do. And I can easily see this as the case with other domesticated animals. This is essentially what I was trying to say. That animals themselves derive enjoyment from being used for sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Why not better regulation and better treatment in animal sports instead of ending them? Seems fair for animal sports that don't require harming animals (bull sports and animal fighting). I agree those sports should end, but horse racing seems like it can be done just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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