Unforeseen consequences of the tank

[sicknfla]

Kane is the same age as Foligno and Deslauriers. Bogo is only one year older. We're fine.

I am not worried about age. I am worried about talent.

[Claude_Verret]

It's always darkest before the dawn, but it sure beats living in a world of perpetual dusk.

[SwampD]

It's always darkest before the dawn, but it sure beats living in a world of perpetual dusk.

:doh:

[North Buffalo]

I think Murray will have an active draft but this team cannot afford any more 3+ for 1 style trades. What scares me with any ROR style deal is it will take a few current players, prospect, and pick to complete. We just don't have the organizational depth. I would have thought after this massive 2+ year selloff we would have more assets but I just don't see it. Ennis, Bogo, Moulson, Kane, and Gorges are now are vets. Foligno, Deslauriers are guys who could be around for awhile but are not difference makers.

Then we have:

Girgs/Risto - so far the two best players to come out of this rebuild. Both will have long productive careers and be part of the new core.

Zadarov - could go either way. Could be top 4 dman for next 10-15 years. Clearly not mature yet. Will Murray ride it out or lose patience and include him in summer deal?

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH IT ON THE BIG CLUB!!

Reinhart - should have good/above average career. Do not see superstar talent but should be a rock for next 15 years.

Grigorenko - huge question mark that will probably be involved in a future trade.

Pysyk/ McCabe - our final two defensive prospects that should be with big team next year.

Carrier/Fasching/Bailey/Baptiste/Cornel/Compher - maybe two of these guys become everyday NHL players.

Goalie - we have some prospects but nothing to count on.

2015 draft - one impact player who is hopefully the superstar that all this tanking has been for. Then a late first and a few seconds to add to our prospect pool that may help a few years down the road. The Islanders having a big year has hurt.

So based on that I am not sure how I feel. I know I will feel better this time next year but I am hardly convinced that we have laid down the foundation of a Stanley Cup team.

Agreed, more trades of prospects or current players is not team building, giving up to much for ROR or any other player without retaining enough talent of current crop is just moving dirt around not really cleaning anything up. I want to see team building from here on out. That being said Hogson can be had for a wooden stick imo. Edited March 3, 2015 by Fargenov Iceholeski

[PASabreFan]

It's always darkest before the dawn, but it sure beats living in a world of perpetual dusk.

Deep Thoughts... by Claude Handy.

[thewookie1]

I think Murray will have an active draft but this team cannot afford any more 3+ for 1 style trades. What scares me with any ROR style deal is it will take a few current players, prospect, and pick to complete. We just don't have the organizational depth. I would have thought after this massive 2+ year selloff we would have more assets but I just don't see it. Ennis, Bogo, Moulson, Kane, and Gorges are now are vets. Foligno, Deslauriers are guys who could be around for awhile but are not difference makers.

 

Then we have:

 

Girgs/Risto - so far the two best players to come out of this rebuild. Both will have long productive careers and be part of the new core.

 

Zadarov - could go either way. Could be top 4 dman for next 10-15 years. Clearly not mature yet. Will Murray ride it out or lose patience and include him in summer deal?

 

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH IT ON THE BIG CLUB!!

 

True Vets are 30+, because they typically are on the other side of their peak play.

 

Aside from Gorges, you are naming experienced players but they aren't finished and washed up.

 

I'd disagree, I think Ennis can be a very useful player going forward, he's put up 20 goals on terrible rosters so I'd assume he'd work well on a good team.

 

Evander Kane isn't old by any measurement, and has the skill to be a 40 goal scorer

 

Bogosian still can be a very effective D-man for many years

[PASabreFan]

The title of this thread sounds like a TV show Robert Stack should host.

[sicknfla]

True Vets are 30+, because they typically are on the other side of their peak play.

 

Aside from Gorges, you are naming experienced players but they aren't finished and washed up.

 

I'd disagree, I think Ennis can be a very useful player going forward, he's put up 20 goals on terrible rosters so I'd assume he'd work well on a good team.

 

Evander Kane isn't old by any measurement, and has the skill to be a 40 goal scorer

 

Bogosian still can be a very effective D-man for many years

Where did I ever say they were washed up? I simply stated they are our veterans. I disagree with a veteran needing to be in his 30s. Ennis is not a veteran. He is looked at to lead and lead by example. This is what a veteran does.

[thewookie1]

Then why only state Girgs, Risto, and Zad as a part of the future?

[sicknfla]

Then why only state Girgs, Risto, and Zad as a part of the future?

Because I don't consider them vets yet. I consider them part of the youth that has come from this rebuild. The vets I listed were either here or in the league far before we decided to blow this thing up. Reread my post.

[thewookie1]

Because I don't consider them vets yet. I consider them part of the youth that has come from this rebuild. The vets I listed were either here or in the league far before we decided to blow this thing up. Reread my post.

 

Ok I guess, I was a bit overly focused on the later parts. I agree 3 for 1 trades aren't going to help us at this point.  

[dudacek]

I think one more three for one trade is not only a good thing, it is probably a necessity.

[Doohickie]

The title of this thread sounds like a TV show Robert Stack should host.

Thank you. That's the vibe I was trying to achieve.

[3putt]

I think the culmination of the tear down buys much needed time.  Wherever we draft we will be adding a significant talent, possibly two.  We will restock the cupboards with the later rounds.  There are heir apparent s who now have lanes that allow them to move up and take positions on the roster.  We have cap space and assets to deal still deal.  Why I realize people will want to leverage all of this for immediate success next year, it is not a necessity but rather a luxury.  We can allow the maturation process to take place and if a deal presents itself we can take advantage.  We will no longer be reacting, we can be proactive or not.  I look to 2016 where there seems to be a bounty of UFA's that may hit the market.  Also, teams may need cap relief this summer, cough Chicago, so bargains could be had.  Now that the lot has been leveled and a foundation is taking shape, this team has options that give me great hope for the future.  And in the end every season is about hope and faith.  My hope is back and my faith is growing.  

[biodork]

not sure how to interpret this but it sounds cool.

See here for background:

 

http://forums.sabrespace.com/topic/23120-gdt-buffaloflorida-300pm-est/page-5?do=findComment&comment=659016

[North Buffalo]

I think the culmination of the tear down buys much needed time.  Wherever we draft we will be adding a significant talent, possibly two.  We will restock the cupboards with the later rounds.  There are heir apparent s who now have lanes that allow them to move up and take positions on the roster.  We have cap space and assets to deal still deal.  Why I realize people will want to leverage all of this for immediate success next year, it is not a necessity but rather a luxury.  We can allow the maturation process to take place and if a deal presents itself we can take advantage.  We will no longer be reacting, we can be proactive or not.  I look to 2016 where there seems to be a bounty of UFA's that may hit the market.  Also, teams may need cap relief this summer, cough Chicago, so bargains could be had.  Now that the lot has been leveled and a foundation is taking shape, this team has options that give me great hope for the future.  And in the end every season is about hope and faith.  My hope is back and my faith is growing.

 

The FA info is hopeful. Again, need to see actions twds significant improvement the next two years.

[Hoss]

Not just "a new coach," but the right coach. Nolan is signed through next season, right? If the Sabres can't land a Babcock or other A-list coach, it may be better to stick with Nolan than to change for the sake of change (if they can't line up a clear, A-list upgrade).

Firing Nolan wouldn't be for the sake of change... It'd be for the sake of the franchise. There's a clear divide between GM and coach right now. Nolan's vision and strategy simply don't fit what this team is doing. The youth movement next season with require that the team be led by rooks/young players and Nolan seems to have no clue how to manage that. He's not our guy.

 

Not to mention you can't try to line a guy up and then retain the current coach if you fail...

Edited March 3, 2015 by Tank

[3putt]

TN has extensive experience in junior and international hockey dealing with young players. My concern is his inability to utilize talent and create synergy among players.

[PASabreFan]

Firing Nolan wouldn't be for the sake of change... It'd be for the sake of the franchise. There's a clear divide between GM and coach right now. Nolan's vision and strategy simply don't fit what this team is doing. The youth movement next season with require that the team be led by rooks/young players and Nolan seems to have no clue how to manage that. He's not our guy.

 

Not to mention you can't try to line a guy up and then retain the current coach if you fail...

So the rationale for Murray buying into Nolan was that Nolan would be a bad fit and a terrible coach and would secure the tank and then be fired after one season?

[LastPommerFan]

I think Murray will have an active draft but this team cannot afford any more 3+ for 1 style trades. What scares me with any ROR style deal is it will take a few current players, prospect, and pick to complete. We just don't have the organizational depth. I would have thought after this massive 2+ year selloff we would have more assets but I just don't see it. Ennis, Bogo, Moulson, Kane, and Gorges are now are vets. Foligno, Deslauriers are guys who could be around for awhile but are not difference makers.

 

Then we have:

 

Girgs/Risto - so far the two best players to come out of this rebuild. Both will have long productive careers and be part of the new core.

 

Zadarov - could go either way. Could be top 4 dman for next 10-15 years. Clearly not mature yet. Will Murray ride it out or lose patience and include him in summer deal?

 

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH IT ON THE BIG CLUB!!

 

Reinhart - should have good/above average career. Do not see superstar talent but should be a rock for next 15 years.

 

Grigorenko - huge question mark that will probably be involved in a future trade.

 

Pysyk/ McCabe - our final two defensive prospects that should be with big team next year.

 

Carrier/Fasching/Bailey/Baptiste/Cornel/Compher - maybe two of these guys become everyday NHL players.

 

Goalie - we have some prospects but nothing to count on.

 

2015 draft - one impact player who is hopefully the superstar that all this tanking has been for. Then a late first and a few seconds to add to our prospect pool that may help a few years down the road. The Islanders having a big year has hurt.

 

So based on that I am not sure how I feel. I know I will feel better this time next year but I am hardly convinced that we have laid down the foundation of a Stanley Cup team.

 

I see 6 top six forwards (Kane, McEichel, Moulson, Ennis, Girgensons, and Reinhart) a solid top 4 D (Bogosian, Gorges, Zadarov, and Risto)

 

Then I see a large enough prospect pool to fill out depth. 

 

Everything else is just roster filler like McCormick and Weber. Dime a dozen guys who can be easily replaced and don't really affect our chances of winning.

 

We do need a goalie, and depending on the development of Risto and Zad, we might need another top 4 D.

 

I think we're much better off than we were in October of 2012 when the downward spiral began.

[PASabreFan]

Thank you. That's the vibe I was trying to achieve.

Really. You thought of Robert Stack? I think of him a lot. Do you? I miss him.

[Jerry Jabber]

Normally, NHL teams that tank take 4-5 years (or even more) to start reaping the rewards. It seems that Tim Murray is hoping that it will only take two years. Murray already has Evander Kane lined up with whoever he drafts (McDavid or Eichel), plus the Sabres have the most cap room available out of all the teams in the NHL, so I expect to see Murray busy signing players to make the team better in the offseason. I like Murray's philosophy of trying to get something in return for upcoming UFA's instead of letting them walk at the end of the season for nothing. I also like that Murray will use the draft picks he obtains and is willing to use them to acquire players/prospects instead of just waiting until the draft. Right now, the Sabres have nine 1st and 2nd round picks over the next three years, so between the cap space and all the draft picks, Murray is setting the Sabres up nicely to be a long term contender.

[Hoss]

So the rationale for Murray buying into Nolan was that Nolan would be a bad fit and a terrible coach and would secure the tank and then be fired after one season?

It was a PR move. He was a nice face and name that the fans like and can give them something else to think about in the meantime. But he was never a long-term option.

[sicknfla]

Just out of curiosity what do you all think Stafford would have brought by himself yesterday?

[thewookie1]

Just out of curiosity what do you all think Stafford would have brought by himself yesterday?

 

Probably a 2nd rounder + prior to deadline day, but how things went yesterday leaves me a tad confused as to what the market had set for a vet winger which varied immensely

Tlusty - 2016 3rd-round pick, Cond. 2015 6th-round pick

Baertschi - 2015 2nd-round pick

Jagr - 2015 2nd-round pick, 2016 3rd-round pick

Winnik - Sill, 2016 2nd-round pick, 2015 4th-round pick

Glencross - 2015 2nd-round pick, 2015 3rd-round pick

Fleischmann - Heatley, 2015 3rd-round pick 

Stempniak/Klingberg - traded for one another

 

I'd of thought based on those trades that Stewart would have been at least been worth a 2nd in 2017 + something this year, maybe a 4th or so and Stafford would of been pretty similar in value. Granted its been said that Murray had intended to package Stewart and that in the 11th hour he was forced to go back Minnesota and just take whatever in a sense.

 

Hence Stafford would of been worth about a 3rd in 2015/ 2nd in 2016 and a lesser pick in the other year. For instance 3rd in 2015 and 4th in 2016 or 2nd in 2016 and 4th in 2015

 

I just want to know how Winnik fetched so much. He's not that great, and Stewart matches up with him at very least statistically maybe even is better due to his scoring ability.