Crusader1969 Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Well, the Rangers, Predators and Habs seem to be doing just fine, at #2, 3 and 4 overall, without having had to endure the nuclear winter that we are in the middle of. For an alternative plan, how about: good drafting, good, non-rushed development of young players, jumping in opportunistically when star players become available in trade, making the right hires at GM and coach, not giving losers like Roy and Stafford long-term contracts, staying in the playoff mix even in down years so losing-is-unacceptable becomes ingrained in the team culture and adding the right free agents at the right time? I'm not going to get any more granular than that. If you feel that what we're in the middle of was the only workable option after the Sabres lost to Philly in the playoffs in 2011, then we will have to agree to disagree. If the Sabres don't get McEichel, how many years do you think it will take them to surpass 90 points? Probably about the same as if they draft McEichel. Certainly not next year in either case - possible in 2 years with or without him. If they don`t get McEichel I will predict another bottom 5-7 finish next year (70ish points). With McEichel they finish around 10-12th worst (high 70 possibly low 80s). 2016-17 with McEichel they finish over 90 points - ill say 50% chance they get 90 points without him. In 3 years (2017-18) they finish above 90 and make the play-offs with or without McEichel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woods-racer Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) I still think it does justify it, I just don't see other avenues that offered the same likelihood of success at getting elite talent that the number 2 and (at worst) number 3 overall picks in consecutive drafts give us. This had to be done. You're right, no GM gives up a player that a team builds around. The only way you acquire them is by getting them through the draft. You need to be bad for 2-3 years, not only bad, but the worst in the league to get the players it takes to be the glue of a franchise that will be constantly in the playoffs. Edited April 2, 2015 by Woods-Racer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Probably about the same as if they draft McEichel. Certainly not next year in either case - possible in 2 years with or without him. If they don`t get McEichel I will predict another bottom 5-7 finish next year (70ish points). With McEichel they finish around 10-12th worst (high 70 possibly low 80s). 2016-17 with McEichel they finish over 90 points - ill say 50% chance they get 90 points without him. In 3 years (2017-18) they finish above 90 and make the play-offs with or without McEichel. Is Jack Eichel really guaranteed to be that much better of a center than Dylan Strome? Because that is effectively what you are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 So what you are saying is... Sam Reinhart will be fine. Better or worse than Peirre Turgeon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I took that bolded part to be more of an objective assessment of falling short of a goal, not an attempt to equate the experiential aspects of going through such disparate journeys. Coller from WGR is my new favorite voice from local media. He had a couple of Twitter takes this morning that are exactly where I'm at. GM TM has done everything within the bounds of reason (e.g., beyond calling up an ECHL chump to play goal) to finish 30th. So, if Matt Ellis is going to score a goal the likes of which he hasn't scored since bantam hockey, then there's not much to be done. The team still needs to play the games, and if those AHL scrappers deliver more points than they should, then that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Agree wholeheartedly with this Coller chap. Let's assume the Sabres get three or more points in their final five and the Coyotes lose out and we endure the agony of watching the shart slip from our grasp. Under that scenario, if my calculations are correct, that would mean the coyotes would have a record of 6-25-2 since Feb. 1. That's a 35 point full season pace. At that point you don't get pissed at your collection of AHL scrubs, you tip your hat to the Coyotes and their AHL scrubs for out tanking us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Well, the Rangers, Predators and Habs seem to be doing just fine, at #2, 3 and 4 overall, without having had to endure the nuclear winter that we are in the middle of. For an alternative plan, how about: good drafting, good, non-rushed development of young players, jumping in opportunistically when star players become available in trade, making the right hires at GM and coach, not giving losers like Roy and Stafford long-term contracts, staying in the playoff mix even in down years so losing-is-unacceptable becomes ingrained in the team culture and adding the right free agents at the right time? I'm not going to get any more granular than that. If you feel that what we're in the middle of was the only workable option after the Sabres lost to Philly in the playoffs in 2011, then we will have to agree to disagree. If the Sabres don't get McEichel, how many years do you think it will take them to surpass 90 points? I do disagree nfreeman , because i think what you are describing is exactly what the Sabres are doing now, and i am pro-rebuild, outside of being in the playoff mix this year. Enjoy your posts on here..i usually learn something from you so thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Is Jack Eichel really guaranteed to be that much better of a center than Dylan Strome? Because that is effectively what you are saying. I would say yes. Eichel is a number one center through and through -Can`t say that about Strome. Plus Strome isn`t even playing in the NHL next year nor do I think the Sabres take him at number 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 A point to keep in mind: Jonathan Toews wasn't Jonathan Toews until he was Jonathan Toews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 With the general deterioration of morale in here, this video comes to mind.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faU-SK0pHCI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 So what you are saying is... Sam Reinhart will be fine. Indeed I am, and another snippet from the article.. Reinhart will be fine. Reinhart would be even finer if he were to be the #2 center with McDavid or Eichel as the #1 center. Having an 'elite' prospect allows you to slot your players into positions where they are superior to the opposing teams lines. I don't understand why this simple idea doesn't appeal to everyone now when the team only has 5 games to go to accomplish that task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Reinhart will be fine. Reinhart would be even finer if he were to be the #2 center with McDavid or Eichel as the #1 center. Having an 'elite' prospect allows you to slot your players into positions where they are superior to the opposing teams lines. I don't understand why this simple idea doesn't appeal to everyone now when the team only has 5 games to go to accomplish that task. I understand it completely. I would love to have McEichel on the team but I am prepared for the contingency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I understand it completely. I would love to have McEichel on the team but I am prepared for the contingency. I'm glad you're prepared. I've had my fill of valiant efforts to fight for 9th place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 I would say yes. Eichel is a number one center through and through -Can`t say that about Strome. Plus Strome isn`t even playing in the NHL next year nor do I think the Sabres take him at number 3. Strome has moved up to #3 on most boards. If close with Hanifan, I see them taking a center. What do you base your conclusions on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Reinhart will be fine. Reinhart would be even finer if he were to be the #2 center with McDavid or Eichel as the #1 center. Having an 'elite' prospect allows you to slot your players into positions where they are superior to the opposing teams lines. I don't understand why this simple idea doesn't appeal to everyone now when the team only has 5 games to go to accomplish that task. Sam Reinhart *is* an elite prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 A point to keep in mind: Jonathan Toews wasn't Jonathan Toews until he was Jonathan Toews. Not bad for the third overall pick. Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 A point to keep in mind: Jonathan Toews wasn't Jonathan Toews until he was Jonathan Toews. That is true. He wasn't Jonathan Toews until Chicago drafted Patrick Kane with the #1 pick the following season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 That is true. He wasn't Jonathan Toews until Chicago drafted Patrick Kane with the #1 pick the following season. Oh good so you agree we can draft Mitch Marner. Sweet :P We have 5 more games and a draft lottery before this is all over. Wait to see how it plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Sam Reinhart *is* an elite prospect. That is correct. Having that elite prospect as your #2 center because you have an even better elite prospect as your # 1 center is better than having that elite prospect as your #1 center and having a very good talent as your #2 center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Strome has moved up to #3 on most boards. If close with Hanifan, I see them taking a center. It kind of depends. You know the April Fools thread that talked about trading the Sabres pick to Colo? If GMTM thinks Hanifin can be packaged in a trade to get one of those "elite" centers we keep talking about, he may just do it. The reason it was a good April Fools prank was because it was believable. GMTM may want to trade a top prospect for an NHL-ready player. Edited April 2, 2015 by Neuvichs Perchatka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrestrike Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 If we don't land McEichel, I think we'll be in contention for Austin Matthews next year. Maybe not the favorite, like this year, but we'll be in the conversation. I can see us making some adds along the lines of Gionta and Gorges, but we need a Top 6 forward (along with Kane) to push the envelope forward. I don't think we'll be able to get a guy like that unless we draft him, and I don't think Strome, Reinhart or Marner will be ready for prime time yet. We won't be tanking, but without an elite guys--even a rookie--I can't see us anywhere but 25th place or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 It kind of depends. You know the April Fools thread that talked about trading the Sabres pick to Colo? If GMTM thinks Hanifin can be packaged in a trade to get one of those "elite" centers we keep talking about, he may just do it. The reason it was a good April Fools prank was because it was believable. GMTM may want to trade a top prospect for an NHL-ready player. Understood. I suppose when they are on the clock such a trade could be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 That is correct. Having that elite prospect as your #2 center because you have an even better elite prospect as your # 1 center is better than having that elite prospect as your #1 center and having a very good talent as your #2 center. Strome is also an elite prospect. So is Marner. This is where the awesomeness of McEichel has skewed perceptions. Strome and Marner would be in the conversation for #1 overall in any normal draft year, but this is an abnormal year, so they'll go 3-4 and most seem to be thinking of them as typical #3-4 prospects. I think that's the wrong view. They should be thought of as 1-2 level prospects; if you think Reinhart is elite, then you have to think Strome and Marner are also elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 If we don't land McEichel, I think we'll be in contention for Austin Matthews next year. Maybe not the favorite, like this year, but we'll be in the conversation. I can see us making some adds along the lines of Gionta and Gorges, but we need a Top 6 forward (along with Kane) to push the envelope forward. I don't think we'll be able to get a guy like that unless we draft him, and I don't think Strome, Reinhart or Marner will be ready for prime time yet. We won't be tanking, but without an elite guys--even a rookie--I can't see us anywhere but 25th place or worse. I'm not sure even McEichel will make that big of an impact in their first season. Not elite right away, I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Strome is also an elite prospect. So is Marner. This is where the awesomeness of McEichel has skewed perceptions. Strome and Marner would be in the conversation for #1 overall in any normal draft year, but this is an abnormal year, so they'll go 3-4 and most seem to be thinking of them as typical #3-4 prospects. I think that's the wrong view. They should be thought of as 1-2 level prospects; if you think Reinhart is elite, then you have to think Strome and Marner are also elite. yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Strome is also an elite prospect. So is Marner. This is where the awesomeness of McEichel has skewed perceptions. Strome and Marner would be in the conversation for #1 overall in any normal draft year, but this is an abnormal year, so they'll go 3-4 and most seem to be thinking of them as typical #3-4 prospects. I think that's the wrong view. They should be thought of as 1-2 level prospects; if you think Reinhart is elite, then you have to think Strome and Marner are also elite. That's all fine and well - but as I said, wouldn't it be nicer to have that "even better elite prospect"? The Sabres have a very nice amount of potential talent on the way in the next few years. Stome or Marner or whatever other player will be a very fine addition to that prospect list. But at this stage of the game, shouldn't everybody be happier if they are able to guarantee to get a piece of that "awesomeness" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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