smj Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just because you are rooting for the tank does not mean you aren't a fan! It does mean you value long-term results over short-term gratification. As someone who has lived in Buffalo for many years I am tied of going into seasons "hoping" to make the playoffs and knowing, once you got there, you'd lose anyway because teams like Boston were built for playoff success and the Sabres were too small and soft to compete. I'd rather stink for 3 more years if the end result was a real team that could be one of the best for 5-10 years and actually have a chance to win a cup. Just like the Bills - I am tired of them being mediocre. I'd like to have a real shot at the Super Bowl every once in awhile. That doesn't make me any less of a fan - just one that isn't interested in boring, pedestrian teams. Getting McEichel may or may not translate into a cup ever but it would be a heck of a lot more interesting than any of the teams Regier ever put on the ice. I hope Murray keeps blowing things up until we have a real team and I don't care if that takes three more years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 In his edit of my post Tank eliminated a key part. I do believe that the players and coaches are doing their best and putting in their best effort. The owner and management of the Sabres willingly authorized this and embraced this approach. That is the problem I have. Again, to me they cheated. A strong word, weave is correct. I truly believe that the tank is cheating. I do want the Sabres to do well, but not at every cost. On top of cheating, IMO, to secure a top player who should really help the team going forward, the even worse part is that they cheated the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 It was never dead. D4rk still waved the sword. NS was always upfront, if not agressive in stating it. I beleive it. Why is it not legit? Does it not fly in the face of the spirit of competition? No, it does not. It does the exact opposite of that. It's a competition in itself and it also prepares the team partaking in the strategy to compete more in the future than previously capable. For most of the anti-tankers it was always about intentionally building a team with the intent of finishing last being an unsavory way of doing business. Well yea. What else would the anti-tankers think it was about? Looking at the Coyotes' Twitter they just posted a happy birthday message for Mike Smith. Only one "he sucks" response and a bunch of others saying they hope he wins on his birthday. Yuck. What a bunch of losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) It is not unlike letting a child pay the price for a wrong doing but loving them and welcoming them back afterward.I agree. But stripping the Sabres of their 1st round draft pick this year would result in many years-worth of negative consequences, especially when the charges put forth (cheating) are bordering on not even debatable because they could they ever be proven and, in my wildest dreams, I could never imagine a player come forth in saying Nolan told them to throw games. I was going to put forth that anyone for stripping the Sabres of a draft pick would be putting the integrity of the NHL before the welfare of the Sabres. However, that's not accurate. Because stripping the Sabres of a draft pick would go against the very rules the NHL instituted themselves - in in itself would bastardize the integrity of the NHL. What the Sabres are doing are completely within the bylaws of the NHL. Edited March 22, 2015 by kas23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I really, really hope that the new draft rules for next year go a long way towards eliminating the incentive to purposely lose. No NHL fan should have to tolerate watching the Sabres or Coyotes play in their arena. Given the NBA's lottery system is more harsh than even the NHL's new system is going to be, and teams blatantly tank every year in the NBA regardless...I don't see much of a change coming. I just think it's natural--as long as the league wants to promote parity, there is going to be an incentive to tank. It might be a little more or less strong depending on the system, but there are always going to be teams who deem it to be the best option. For most of the anti-tankers it was always about intentionally building a team with the intent of finishing last being an unsavory way of doing business. Cheating? Semantics. It is a strong word. It was never dead. D4rk still waved the sword. NS was always upfront, if not agressive in stating it. I beleive it. Why is it not legit? Does it not fly in the face of the spirit of competition? Semantics? I think there is a gargantuan difference between being opposed to something on a fundamental level, and thinking it's cheating to the point where the league should impose extremely harsh sanctions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I always thought it was "tighty whities". It is as there is many a brown streak in those underpants in question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 In his edit of my post Tank eliminated a key part. I do believe that the players and coaches are doing their best and putting in their best effort. The owner and management of the Sabres willingly authorized this and embraced this approach. That is the problem I have. Again, to me they cheated. A strong word, weave is correct. I truly believe that the tank is cheating. I do want the Sabres to do well, but not at every cost. On top of cheating, IMO, to secure a top player who should really help the team going forward, the even worse part is that they cheated the fans. I have a very serious question: how are you going to reconcile the players acquired helping the team when they were acquired through a method you so strongly detest, and don't even think they should have gotten? Say we're in the playoffs against Boston and Reinhart scores a clinching goal...any mixed emotions there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I have a very serious question: how are you going to reconcile the players acquired helping the team when they were acquired through a method you so strongly detest, and don't even think they should have gotten? Say we're in the playoffs against Boston and Reinhart scores a clinching goal...any mixed emotions there? If anyone has such mixed emotions (or even remotely entertains them), I really can't see how they could consider themselves a Sabres fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 If anyone has such mixed emotions (or even remotely entertains them), I really can't see how they could consider themselves a Sabres fan. Anti-Tankers have been saying the same thing about us for months now, we can't be so quick to judge another's fandom when we've been openly rooting for our team to lose for close to two years now. I'm not saying Weave is such a person, but TrueBlue brings up a good point: there may be some people who are more concerned with being right rather than the team's success. I want to get it out right now, and I hope it to be a popular notion: As soon as the season is over, the anti-tank vs tank debates end. We all want the best lottery position we can get, no calling out the tank if we don't land McDavid, and no throwing it in anti-tankers faces if we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 A lot of calling for fan cards around here lately... I find it to be going too far and trying too hard to separate your argument from theirs. Unless you change your avatar to some other team's logo then still being around here to post in a passionate way proves you're a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 The more I think about it, it's just really strange that Arizona even has a NHL team. Why would fans even care? If there are indeed young people who grow up around there (instead of elderly explants), why would they even care about hockey? I doubt there highschools even have teams. I even wonder if there's ice rinks there. Right; because they're clearly the only team located in an area where hockey would not normally be played. At least in AZ they don't have absurd humidity messing with the ice like they do in Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 A lot of calling for fan cards around here lately... I find it to be going too far and trying too hard to separate your argument from theirs. Unless you change your avatar to some other team's logo then still being around here to post in a passionate way proves you're a fan. At the rate you've been changing your avatar lately you'll probably hit OHL logos by July :nana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 If anyone has such mixed emotions (or even remotely entertains them), I really can't see how they could consider themselves a Sabres fan. Nonsense. Anti-Tankers have been saying the same thing about us for months now, we can't be so quick to judge another's fandom when we've been openly rooting for our team to lose for close to two years now. I'm not saying Weave is such a person, but TrueBlue brings up a good point: there may be some people who are more concerned with being right rather than the team's success. I want to get it out right now, and I hope it to be a popular notion: As soon as the season is over, the anti-tank vs tank debates end. We all want the best lottery position we can get, no calling out the tank if we don't land McDavid, and no throwing it in anti-tankers faces if we do. Absolutely. I'm just legitimately curious if it's going to feel, for lack of a better word, weird, for some to be cheering for the fancy toys that they know were obtained because of a strongly disapproved method. I get some of this feeling when I'm knowingly cheering for athletes on the field I know to be pretty bad people off of it. I'm largely desensitized to it, but the feelings still pop up here and there. Wondering if it's similar for the anti-tankers (I specifically asked NS because of how strongly he appears to feel about it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Absolutely. I'm just legitimately curious if it's going to feel, for lack of a better word, weird, for some to be cheering for the fancy toys that they know were obtained because of a strongly disapproved method. I get some of this feeling when I'm knowingly cheering for athletes on the field I know to be pretty bad people off of it. I'm largely desensitized to it, but the feelings still pop up here and there. Wondering if it's similar for the anti-tankers (I specifically asked NS because of how strongly he appears to feel about it). I'm interested in hearing how they might feel too, it might be bittersweet at first but I imagine any resentment would be gone when the team became a contender. Same question can be applied to the tankers: would you still root for Eichel or McDavid if we don't land them? My immediate reaction is weird -If we get McDavid I will wish Eichel success, but only so much as to not eclipse McDavid's -If we get Eichel, I passionately want Eichel to win more Cups than McDavid, regardless of his stats (mostly because I think rooting for Eichel to have better stats than McDavid would be a losing battle) -If we get neither of them, I will wish Eichel success, and probably despise McDavid, because I'm a jealous ex watching his old girlfriend. I will probably only root for Eichel because he's an underdog in McDavid's shadow. So, call it what you will, but that's how it all shakes out for me at the moment. Separately, this is the first Arizona game I've seen all season, is anyone else watching it? They had a two on one and the Arizona player inexplicably pulled back and waited for another teammate to come down towards the net before failing a cross-crease pass. Just seemed like he intentionally it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) I'm interested in hearing how they might feel too, it might be bittersweet at first but I imagine any resentment would be gone when the team became a contender. Same question can be applied to the tankers: would you still root for Eichel or McDavid if we don't land them? My immediate reaction is weird -If we get McDavid I will wish Eichel success, but only so much as to not eclipse McDavid's -If we get Eichel, I passionately want Eichel to win more Cups than McDavid, regardless of his stats (mostly because I think rooting for Eichel to have better stats than McDavid would be a losing battle) -If we get neither of them, I will wish Eichel success, and probably despise McDavid, because I'm a jealous ex watching his old girlfriend. I will probably only root for Eichel because he's an underdog in McDavid's shadow. So, call it what you will, but that's how it all shakes out for me at the moment. As long as the guy we get matches the hype, I really don't care what the other one does. That said, I do think it would be pretty awesome to have an American super duper star. I will root against either or both of them if they end up in any of my hated cities: Carolina, Toronto, Philly, Boston, Ottawa, Dallas, or New Jersey (I hold them responsible for the dead puck era and its return). I'll root against them out of bitterness (either because I don't think the fan base deserves them or the organization has had too much success lately to rightfully get one) if they end up in: LA, Arizona, Florida. Edit: Apparently it's almost a certainty I'm rooting against at least one of them. Who knew? :lol: Edited March 23, 2015 by TrueBluePhD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 At the rate you've been changing your avatar lately you'll probably hit OHL logos by July :nana: I'm trying on some shoes. Haven't found a fit. Will go for a permanent look once the tank ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 No, it does not. It does the exact opposite of that. It's a competition in itself and it also prepares the team partaking in the strategy to compete more in the future than previously capable. We will have to simply disagree here. Doesn't make either point of view illegitimate. Its simply one persons' threshold for the end-justifies-the-means is different than another. I agree. But stripping the Sabres of their 1st round draft pick this year would result in many years-worth of negative consequences, especially when the charges put forth (cheating) are bordering on not even debatable because they could they ever be proven and, in my wildest dreams, I could never imagine a player come forth in saying Nolan told them to throw games. I was going to put forth that anyone for stripping the Sabres of a draft pick would be putting the integrity of the NHL before the welfare of the Sabres. However, that's not accurate. Because stripping the Sabres of a draft pick would go against the very rules the NHL instituted themselves - in in itself would bastardize the integrity of the NHL. What the Sabres are doing are completely within the bylaws of the NHL. Not one individual is suggesting that what the Sabres are doing is against the league bylaws. Against the spirit of those laws? Yes. But not against the laws themselves. NS uses the word cheating. It is not a good choice of words, but it gets his thought across I'd say. Semantics? I think there is a gargantuan difference between being opposed to something on a fundamental level, and thinking it's cheating to the point where the league should impose extremely harsh sanctions. See my response above. Cheating is a poor choice of words but gets his basic thought down. It is most certainly against the spirit of the rules, as evidenced by the leagues decision to alter the rules of the lottery to try to discourage further tanking. (yeah, I know you think it won't be effective, but it is evidence of the league wanting to discourage it) I have a very serious question: how are you going to reconcile the players acquired helping the team when they were acquired through a method you so strongly detest, and don't even think they should have gotten? Say we're in the playoffs against Boston and Reinhart scores a clinching goal...any mixed emotions there? Again, addressed above. It's like your child doing something you disprove of. You welcome him/her back and rejoice in their successes even if they are the result of something you don't agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8prisoner Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/03/nhl-coyotes-goalie-attempt-to-clear-puck-goes-so-wrong there is no way a gm or ass instant would pay bonuses for game losing plays/goal... not in this land of oz... no way just like the cheatriots, know thy opponent Edited March 23, 2015 by K8prisoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 The Az Nucks game is reminiscent of the Sabres Nucks game of recent vintage. And I agree Comrade, their tank strategy seems to be based on stupid. It is working well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Coyotes score, Announcer-"Are you kidding me?" :lol: :lol: The Yotes are getting outshot 13-5 though, and their idea of offense seems to be pointless wristers as soon as they enter the zone. Edited March 23, 2015 by WildComrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 OEL ties it. The resemblance between his and Ristos game is encouraging. OEL is dabomb 1-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Coyotes score, Announcer-"Are you kidding me?" :lol: :lol: The Yotes are getting outshot 13-5 though, and their idea of offense seems to be pointless wristers as soon as they enter the zone. It's probably more likely that he was saying "are you kidding me" to OEL's nasty goal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 OEL ties it. The resemblance between his and Ristos game is encouraging. OEL is dabomb 1-1 OEL is trying to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 It's probably more likely that he was saying "are you kidding me" to OEL's nasty goal... He wristed it in from the blue line and followed it in for his own rebound. Was it a good goal? Yeah. Was it nasty? No way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Nasty good :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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