bcsaberks Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 So what is the role of president of hockey operations? Pat described the setup as "Office of the General Manager" and Tim would wear the hat. Didn't Pat also say he had two good wingers in Tim and Craig, implying that he, Pat, would be the center? A lot of you who are in business like to talk about "the way of the world" whenever I get into Terry's meddling. Hey, he's the owner. It's how it works. Well, how many of you have heard of a company vice president or president losing a power struggle to a manager? I've seen plenty a young talent move up the latter quickly. Usually not this quickly, and moving directly around their hiring manager is ballsy. If TP facilitated it that's some BS and PLF has good reason to be pissed, but you don't just bail out like a bitch. Maybe its about Ott not Miller. Miller was definitely a goner, seemed Ott was projecting publicly to stay, Nolan and Ott seemed to be bonding. So Nolan/PLF wanted Ott to stay? Nolan sounded very sad in his presser after the game Friday "man of character" "first guy I talked to". Is TN cut out for this side of the business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respk Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 The idea that PLF would put things in place and then walk away doesn't seem right. A planned walk away doesn't occur 5 days before one of the most important dates to the organization this season, the trade deadline. What goes on that everyone can't be big boys and PLF resigns after the tradeline? If PLF is leaving in mutual agreement, why no press conference to announce it? Obviously something wasn't quite right in Hockey Heaven and we'll probably never know exactly what went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) Other than giving a pep talk at a press conference and hiring Nolan and Murray, what did he actually do that was arguably good? Waive Tropp? Sign D'Agostini? Give Omark a tryout? I'm not sure what value he was adding after Murray was hired. Maybe he saw that too. I suffer no tear at his departure as I was not thrilled with his hiring. I do think he could have at least waited until a few weeks after the trade deadline to leave. The circus he created yesterday only fosters my belief that we are years away from having an organization that can win. He could have said, veni, vidi, veci and now adieu. Everything is in place and I'm needed elsewhere. I don't care that he is gone. All I want to know is why he felt it important to stick a knife in the Sabres back on the way out. Edited March 2, 2014 by wjag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) WGR has Bulldog, Jeremy White, and Paul Hamilton on from 9 AM to 11 AM this morning to discuss the LaFontaine resignation matter. Edited March 2, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 patty didn't get his way on something.....wahhhhhhh........what a quitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 When nothing makes sense premises are all wrong. When premises are all wrong flip them and try again. New premises. Everyone locks into a blame narrative and misses what's really happening. Try this instead: - this wasn't about a clash of egos - no internal pissing contest - not a player issue - not a coach issue - patty is quite sane - league matter - patty made a huge mistake outside the organization - people outside organization demanded satisfaction - this broke fom NYC league, not Buffalo - Bettman gave Buffalo a way out - The most competent course of action is to look incompetent to protect franchise. I'm officially on vacation. have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I suffer no tear at his departure as I was not thrilled with his hiring. I do think he could have at least waited until a few weeks after the trade deadline to leave. The circus he created yesterday only fosters my belief that we are years away from having an organization that can win. He could have said, veni, vidi, veci and now adieu. Everything is in place and I'm needed elsewhere. I don't care that he is gone. All I want to know is why he felt it important to stick a knife in the Sabres back on the way out. His presence did enhance the brand a bit--Bulldog just mentioned that as I typed this--but I can't see his value to the team other than that. When nothing makes sense premises are all wrong. When premises are all wrong flip them and try again. New premises. Everyone locks into a blame narrative and misses what's really happening. Try this instead: - this wasn't about a clash of egos - no internal pissing contest - not a player issue - not a coach issue - patty is quite sane - league matter - patty made a huge mistake outside the organization - people outside organization demanded satisfaction - this broke fom NYC league, not Buffalo - Bettman gave Buffalo a way out - The most competent course of action is to look incompetent to protect franchise. I'm officially on vacation. have fun. I don't think anyone knows what's really happening, and I don't think we ever will know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallawaySabres Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I still want to know the finer details as to how late and how much was consumed the night before Super Bow XXV.......that was 24 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I've seen plenty a young talent move up the latter quickly. Usually not this quickly, and moving directly around their hiring manager is ballsy. If TP facilitated it that's some BS and PLF has good reason to be pissed, but you don't just bail out like a bitch. Maybe its about Ott not Miller. Miller was definitely a goner, seemed Ott was projecting publicly to stay, Nolan and Ott seemed to be bonding. So Nolan/PLF wanted Ott to stay? Nolan sounded very sad in his presser after the game Friday "man of character" "first guy I talked to". Is TN cut out for this side of the business? latter? Oh brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 When nothing makes sense premises are all wrong. When premises are all wrong flip them and try again. New premises. Everyone locks into a blame narrative and misses what's really happening. Try this instead: - this wasn't about a clash of egos - no internal pissing contest - not a player issue - not a coach issue - patty is quite sane - league matter - patty made a huge mistake outside the organization - people outside organization demanded satisfaction - this broke fom NYC league, not Buffalo - Bettman gave Buffalo a way out - The most competent course of action is to look incompetent to protect franchise. I'm officially on vacation. have fun. Read all of this in the voice of Mordin Solus, and it's absolutely hilarious (yeah, if you haven't played the Mass Effect series, this makes absolutely no sense at all) :flirt: And my apologies to you, X, my post has no relevance whatsoever and is not meant as bashing yours, just looking for a little humor in all of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I still want to know the finer details as to how late and how much was consumed the night before Super Bow XXV.......that was 24 years ago. Just another drama-queen moment in Queen-City sports. The Bills have captured most of that idiocy over the last 25 years or so - but T-Pegs apparently wants some of the fun for himself. He's even got hisself an 'inner circle' like Ol' Ralphie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 So what is the role of president of hockey operations? Pat described the setup as "Office of the General Manager" and Tim would wear the hat. Didn't Pat also say he had two good wingers in Tim and Craig, implying that he, Pat, would be the center? A lot of you who are in business like to talk about "the way of the world" whenever I get into Terry's meddling. Hey, he's the owner. It's how it works. Well, how many of you have heard of a company vice president or president losing a power struggle to a manager? I have. and it was ugly. was the result of a manager convincing the prez that a new direction needed to be taken. a direction opposite the one the vp was taking. Quite a few folks ended up in dead end positions over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcsaberks Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 latter? Oh brother! My bad! Bulldog says his trusted sources say PLF is in fact an ego problem. Why is Bettman letting him return? Mafia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 it was a power struggle.....black, patty, murray, saywer, craig Patrick, nolan all debating their options. i'd say the tipping point was Ryan Miller. Patty & Nolan wanted to offer miller a big contract before trading him, Murray and others wanted to only trade him. pegula ruled trade him, patty lost, realized he didn't have final say and quit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 His presence did enhance the brand a bit--Bulldog just mentioned that as I typed this--but I can't see his value to the team other than that. I don't think anyone knows what's really happening, and I don't think we ever will know. I disagree w/ the 1st but agree w/ the 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 If it's about Miller it's ridiculous. If Miller wanted to stay he would have let it be known that is what he wanted and would have signed a deal. He made it clear he did not want to be here anymore. What's the big deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 it was a power struggle.....black, patty, murray, saywer, craig Patrick, nolan all debating their options. i'd say the tipping point was Ryan Miller. Patty & Nolan wanted to offer miller a big contract before trading him, Murray and others wanted to only trade him. pegula ruled trade him, patty lost, realized he didn't have final say and quit. So, they were going to point a gun to Miller's head and force him to sign an extension that he had clearly no interest in? Makes no sense that this was a point of contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 So what is the role of president of hockey operations? Pat described the setup as "Office of the General Manager" and Tim would wear the hat. Didn't Pat also say he had two good wingers in Tim and Craig, implying that he, Pat, would be the center? A lot of you who are in business like to talk about "the way of the world" whenever I get into Terry's meddling. Hey, he's the owner. It's how it works. Well, how many of you have heard of a company vice president or president losing a power struggle to a manager? I have. and it was ugly. was the result of a manager convincing the prez that a new direction needed to be taken. a direction opposite the one the vp was taking. Quite a few folks ended up in dead end positions over it. Of course, we have no idea what happened, but this happens on a regular basis in large businesses and small ones. The most widely-known local examples would be the power struggles at Kaleida (this year) and First Niagara (last year--the bank, not the arena). I disagree w/ the 1st but agree w/ the 2nd. Which part of the first one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 (edited) I'm looking at this as follows. This was either a one off, solely LaFontaine issue, and there will be no domino effect with Nolan, Murray and Patrick. In that case, the hockey product survives and life goes on. Not ideal, but management changes are part of business. If other dominos fall, all bets are off and we're back to a bad product without a vision and direction. In either case, the handling can only be described as amateurish and bungled. Contrast fanfare and press conferences with leaks and terse statements. Consider the timing. This happened hours after the trade of an iconic player and in the midst of a seven day trading period that the franchise has pointed to as critical in order to climb out of the cellar. I can get over LaFontaine leaving. The lingering concern is the management of the franchise. Competent professionals making considered decisions, mutually respecting one another, would have staged this to occur post trade deadline and held a cordial joint press conference. Twitter leaks, radio silence, terse three paragraph announcements after the news is already out all point to a fire drill. We may or may not learn what the issues were or who made what decisions. I do believe one thing, though. For the past twenty four hours, everyone in the organization was scrambling to respond to something no one in the organization was guiding or managing. That's not usually a successful strategy. What I know: The Sabres have passionate fans and an owner with tremendous financial resources. What I don't know: Anything else. Edited March 2, 2014 by Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Least Favored Team What did you expect? They just traded away the one guy who calls out the PR department on Twitter. This will likely go on forever, one stitch at a time. Dohickie, this is correct. It is the follow on to 11's MFT status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I feel that Battista telling Nolan not to dress Miller/Ott was a tipping point. Wouldn't it have been PL's job to tell Nolan? Maybe PL couldn't stomach the trade and the finagling that went with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Other than because of the bias we carry for PLF as a favored all-time player in Buffalo, why should we be surprised that he's got a HUGE ego and an over-inflated sense of what's right AND be willing to go to the mat over it? Those attributes helped make him one of the best players in history. It's part of his makeup and he probably doesn't suffer what he considers "fools" very easily as a result. As I said upthread, HOF players in sports rarely make successful transitions to front office positions. Patty is 0-2 in this department and his short stints in both places is more than a coincidence. Some will feel the need to make this all about TP, the "inner circle" (ALL sports team owners have them BTW), and how dysfunctional they are in order to satisfy some preconceived narratives. But the simple truth seems to be that Patty just isn't cut out for it. While it's embarrassing in the short term perhaps, it speaks well that TP and Co. nipped the unrest in the bud. Would have been far worse to let it fester out of some misguided loyalty to a great player and person that we all love. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Of course, we have no idea what happened, but this happens on a regular basis in large businesses and small ones. The most widely-known local examples would be the power struggles at Kaleida (this year) and First Niagara (last year--the bank, not the arena). Which part of the first one? The way this came out of the blue and the way how Pat had a 2nd job in hand by the time it was announced he was leaving, there has to be people besides Lafontaine that understand what were the issues that precipitated this. Some (several?) of these people leak matters to the press when it is beneficial to themselves. Getting the clear picture of what happened probably won't fully come out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I feel that Battista telling Nolan not to dress Miller/Ott was a tipping point. Wouldn't it have been PL's job to tell Nolan? Maybe PL couldn't stomach the trade and the finagling that went with it. That's certainly not it. LaFontaine has been MIA for the last several games. He wasn't even at FNC for any of the games this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Perhaps PLF was pissed about something yet to occur ? And I'm not talking about Nolan being dismissed. Is there another huge move in the works that PLF wasn't on board with ? Who knows but its exciting and with all this speculation and disfunction this board is ALIVE I tell you. IT LIVES ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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