26CornerBlitz Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 At the moment, without any other evidence, I believe Paul Hamilton, which results in the idea that Blue boiled down: Pat LaFontaine may not be cut out for the front office. PHam said that off-camera, Pat's a very intense person, which I'm sure is a result necessity of being one the great, hyper-competitive players of all time. You can be that way on-ice and in the player transaction (trade, UFA, draft) market, but you can't be that way in a management group among allies that need to work together. You have to be able to compromise. Pat was brought in to perform as a very specific piece of the management puzzle: hire the GM, let the GM do the heavy lifting, then be an ambassador and adviser for the team. But if he thought that there was some expanded role he was to have, or if he thought it was going to be his way always, he was wrong. It's also possible that LaFontaine, who is a very passionate person, didn't have the professional ruthlessness required for being in the chain of responsibility for trading and cutting players, but I'd like to think he's brave enough to try. Paul Hamilton's also somewhat correct about the aftermath: it may not be that big of a deal. We have a GM with a lot of hockey experience working hard to build the team. The coaching and the ownership situation haven't changed. The Sabres are still well-positioned to advance going forward. We're just minus one well-respected ambassador. I don't like seeing Patty go because I think he could've grown his role to do great things as an ambassador for the team. But by no means do I think we're in a world of ######, because, barring any real power struggle nonsense that I have yet to see any evidence of, we still have a very strong front office. Interesting that Patrick Roy, the living embodiment of competitive intensity, can function as an executive/coach in the NHL. Yet PLF has failed twice as an NHL executive with rather sudden and unexpected departures. Very telling IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 http://forums.sabres...280#entry528432 This is the most logical scenario for me right now, but I truly want to hear from everyone. The kind of stuff that has gone on the past 2 days does not bode well under any circumstance. Now you have Nolan sounding wishy washy. What does Tim Murray think? He at least had Patty as a buffer between him and Pegula. Is Battista going to be over his shoulder? Tim Murray said he is renting a condo and didn't even put anything in the fridge yet a few weeks ago. I can only imagine what is going through his head right now. How do you put your full heart into a trade deadline rebuild when you probably have to question yourself how long you can truly see yourself staying in Buffalo. It's just a bad juju. And Pat Lafontaine did leave before....he left Charles Wang....was that a poor decision? This is the scary part. I just want to hear from everyone right now. This is government overthrow kind of stuff. They should march every major member of the organization in front of a mike so we know they are still alive. Murray, Black, Patrick, Devine....I couldn't care less about Sawyer, and Benson is too busy getting appointed to the board of Penn St by Governor Corbett with the media backlash there....but I really thought we were over the hump. What should be a Christmas Eve type atmosphere of the trade deadline has just been ruined by learning the kids crashed the car on the way to Grandma's house...and we don't know the condition except for 1 DOA. I too am concerned about the loss of PLF as a buffer between hockey operations and these suit & tie clowns. If I'm Murray or Nolan, are they really gonna want a guy who T-Pegs put into a cushy sinecure position and who has the vast experience of running a college hockey program for a state funded institution like Pedophile State (Battista), riding herd on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Interesting that Patrick Roy, the living embodiment of competitive intensity, can function as an executive/coach in the NHL. Yet PLF has failed twice as an NHL executive with rather sudden and unexpected departures. Very telling IMO. first I think Roy flames out within 2-3 years and by flame out I mean full blown Roy temper tantrum ranting and raving. Second I think the job of Head Coach is very different compared to a executive of a nhl team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Just watched the presser and I'm sorry to say I agree 100%. It's at least 50/50 that he's not back next year. If he turns down that contract, he's done in the NHL. I think self interest prevails once his emotions settle down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 It seems that right now all we have is Murray and Patrick. Murray is new at this level and Patrick, while highly successful in the past, is a dinosaur. I hope they are up to it. Who is Gibby? Mike Gilbert. You will see him opening a press conference. VP Communications and a lot of other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 first I think Roy flames out within 2-3 years and by flame out I mean full blown Roy temper tantrum ranting and raving. Second I think the job of Head Coach is very different compared to a executive of a nhl team Roy has more than one role with the Avs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Sure, if they stick around. They guy who hired them lasted 108 days before bolting for mysterious reasons. It doesn't even sound like Nolan is sure he wants to stay, if you can believe that. You couldn't make this up. As with Nolan, I think self interest prevails. If Murray leaves he's not getting another GM job for ages, if ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 And I have a great deal of faith and hope in having Patrick around and Murray in charge. We need to be bold and for a change we set the market rather Darcy and his mamby pamby crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 If he turns down that contract, he's done in the NHL. I think self interest prevails once his emotions settle down. I don't think Nolan would stay just to preserve NHL opportunities. He seems to me to be the kind of guy that would be OK with coaching juniors and internationally if he had to in order to be in a situation that was acceptable morally (for lack of a better word) to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 If he turns down that contract, he's done in the NHL. I think self interest prevails once his emotions settle down. Probably why he's sitting on it at the moment. He's definitely matured, I think he knows it's best to take time to think it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Interesting that Patrick Roy, the living embodiment of competitive intensity, can function as an executive/coach in the NHL. Yet PLF has failed twice as an NHL executive with rather sudden and unexpected departures. Very telling IMO. I think those can be core traits of a successful head coach. I don't think those can be core traits of a successful team president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 And I have a great deal of faith and hope in having Patrick around and Murray in charge. We need to be bold and for a change we set the market rather Darcy and his mamby pamby crap. I wholeheartedly agree - what Murray has done is be an active GM, unlike the passive-aggressive Marcy who kind of waited for someone to call him. But - was the boldness we approve of, opposed by T-Pegs and the "Inner Circle"? Was PLF an advocate for it? With PLF gone, will they try to rein it in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Roy has more than one role with the Avs. doesn't change the outcome i predict I don't think Nolan would stay just to preserve NHL opportunities. He seems to me to be the kind of guy that would be OK with coaching juniors and internationally if he had to in order to be in a situation that was acceptable morally (for lack of a better word) to him. Thing is I am wondering if his international job is going to continue to be there. one player tested positive and the IOC is investigating another on Nolan's team. As the Head Coach he has to bear some level of responsibility for it. I am not saying Nolan know or encouraged such things but if it happened during his tenure as the head coach it will be something that is considered whenever he goes somewhere looking to coach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 I wholeheartedly agree - what Murray has done is be an active GM, unlike the passive-aggressive Marcy who kind of waited for someone to call him. But - was the boldness we approve of, opposed by T-Pegs and the "Inner Circle"? Was PLF an advocate for it? With PLF gone, will they try to rein it in? GMTM doesn't strike me as someone who will operate by reigning things in so I think we're good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 doesn't change the outcome i predict You may be right in the long run, but in any case that will top PLF's 5 months total between two NHL team gigs. This points to "Does not play well with others" from this vantage point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 doesn't change the outcome i predict Thing is I am wondering if his international job is going to continue to be there. one player tested positive and the IOC is investigating another on Nolan's team. As the Head Coach he has to bear some level of responsibility for it. I am not saying Nolan know or encouraged such things but if it happened during his tenure as the head coach it will be something that is considered whenever he goes somewhere looking to coach And the IOC is talking about stripping Latvia of their ranking for having 2 players test positive. Not a good sign for their hockey program nor for Teds coaching opportunities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 The international gig was a part time gig, no? wasn't he coaching in the CHL as a full time job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 The international gig was a part time gig, no? wasn't he coaching in the CHL as a full time job? Not recently. He did coach Moncton years ago, and he refused to leave that position for the NHL until the season was over. His actions over the years support your theory that he needs to feel that a situation is morally acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Not recently. He did coach Moncton years ago, and he refused to leave that position for the NHL until the season was over. His actions over the years support your theory that he needs to feel that a situation is morally acceptable. Interesting phraseology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 The international gig was a part time gig, no? wasn't he coaching in the CHL as a full time job? He coached in the OHL in the 80's. He coached in the Q in the mid-2000's. He was also the Rochester Americans VP Hockey Operations, until they were purchased by TP ....... hhhhhmmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Interesting phraseology. It came from here: I don't think Nolan would stay just to preserve NHL opportunities. He seems to me to be the kind of guy that would be OK with coaching juniors and internationally if he had to in order to be in a situation that was acceptable morally (for lack of a better word) to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 It came from here: Still interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 @BNHarrington #Sabres update: They're planning to make Tim Murray and Ted Black available separately. Sounds like 3:30-430 range... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 Still interesting. Nolan didn't elaborate on anything in his presser but I came away from his interview with the distinct impression that something happened that he was having trouble with on a level that I can only describe as moral. It may very well be the wrong descriptor. And my impression is based on nothing substantial. It's a gut feeling I came away from the interview with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 2, 2014 Report Share Posted March 2, 2014 The idea (upthread) that this was a contemplated departure is farcical. Something, or some things, happened and PLF quit as a result of it/them. I regret that PLF is gone - that was such a feel-good hire. I think the public/private persona talk is very interesting, and could explain quite a bit. I think that he landed back with the NHL isn't a huge tell--he could've squared that away in a matter of days. The fact that Bettman and PLF are evidently affiliates is weird, and may suggest that PLF isn't the mensch I have long assumed him to be. I find myself questioning a lot all of a sudden -- his devotion to the Knoxes, for example, now potentially marred by insincerity and a desire for self-advancement. I am left to infer that PLF did not have the level of power, authority, and/or influence he desired. And I feel like his decision to up and leave before the trade deadline is deeply unprofessional--fukc, just wait a week, dude. Would that have killed you? Doing it now seems incredibly self-centered--requiring the franchise to spend time cleaning up this mess rather than concentrate entirely on the trade deadline. If not for the narrative (which has some basis in fact) that TP and his inner circle are bumblefukcs, this would unequivocally be a "PLF is off the rez" analysis. I still think it tips more in that direction than not. We have TM. He seems more than competent. If we can get Reinhardt (sic?) and, God willing, McDavid, none of this will matter. Go Sabres. Good post. I hope you're right. I just can't shake the concern that events transpired within the Sabres' inner circle that were so unacceptable -- and not just to PLF, but to any reasonable hockey man -- that PLF had to leave immediately. http://forums.sabres...280#entry528432 This is the most logical scenario for me right now, but I truly want to hear from everyone. The kind of stuff that has gone on the past 2 days does not bode well under any circumstance. Now you have Nolan sounding wishy washy. What does Tim Murray think? He at least had Patty as a buffer between him and Pegula. Is Battista going to be over his shoulder? Tim Murray said he is renting a condo and didn't even put anything in the fridge yet a few weeks ago. I can only imagine what is going through his head right now. How do you put your full heart into a trade deadline rebuild when you probably have to question yourself how long you can truly see yourself staying in Buffalo. It's just a bad juju. And Pat Lafontaine did leave before....he left Charles Wang....was that a poor decision? This is the scary part. I just want to hear from everyone right now. This is government overthrow kind of stuff. They should march every major member of the organization in front of a mike so we know they are still alive. Murray, Black, Patrick, Devine....I couldn't care less about Sawyer, and Benson is too busy getting appointed to the board of Penn St by Governor Corbett with the media backlash there....but I really thought we were over the hump. What should be a Christmas Eve type atmosphere of the trade deadline has just been ruined by learning the kids crashed the car on the way to Grandma's house...and we don't know the condition except for 1 DOA. Exactly. Things are very much up in the air, and we just can't discount the possibility that the reason PLF left is not that PLF is a baby, but rather that the Sabres are as much a bozo organization as the Islanders, with a similar nutcake billionaire at the top. Now, there is an important distinction between the 2 situations, which is that -- for now -- CP and TM are staying on, and there seems a good likelihood that TN will stay as well (although as I mentioned upthread there is also a very good likelihood that he bails) -- whereas in the Islanders' situation, Neil Smith, who was the only other hockey grownup on the scene, also bailed along with PLF. So there is reason to think that it's more a PLF issue than a Sabres issue. But I'm sure not totally comfortable that it isn't a nuthouse over there. If he turns down that contract, he's done in the NHL. I think self interest prevails once his emotions settle down. As with Nolan, I think self interest prevails. If Murray leaves he's not getting another GM job for ages, if ever. ...unless, in each case, it becomes clear to the rest of the NHL that the Sabres' situation was an untenable nuthouse for anyone who decides to bail. I don't think Nolan would stay just to preserve NHL opportunities. He seems to me to be the kind of guy that would be OK with coaching juniors and internationally if he had to in order to be in a situation that was acceptable morally (for lack of a better word) to him. Good call. Probably why he's sitting on it at the moment. He's definitely matured, I think he knows it's best to take time to think it over. Also a good call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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