PASabreFan Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I am prepared to give him a chance. I am sick and tired of everything being doom and gloom. He has a shot and I am prepared to wait 5-7yrs for a cup. What are you basing your negativity on? Nothing that's what. Woo is the Buffalo sports fan. Enough self loathing. We suck right now. We are the worst team in entire NHL. That means we get to trade off guys and draft new faces. Kids like Zadorov and Girgensons. Players who can change the direction of this team for the better. I believe this team will be better next year. I think they will be even better the year after that. Why do I think that? What am I basing it in? I am basing it on the faith that my team will be good enough, that one year they will reward all the sweat, tears, anger, love, and emotion I have poured into them. That finally after over 40years of them sucking for which I know of but 12, they will emerge victorious. They haven't sucked for 40 years. They've been close several times (75, 80, maybe 93, 98, 99, 01?, 06, 07) to winning it all, and I think that explains the frustration that a lot of us old-timers have. (Younger fans should also be frustrated, I guess, but for some of us the getting close over decades becomes a drip drip drip, a water torture of sorts.) So when Terry comes in talking Cup in the short term, then retains Ruff and Regier, finally pulls the plug, and now we're rock bottom in year 3 (4, whatever), it's beyond maddening. Edited February 10, 2014 by PASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 They haven't sucked for 40 years. They've been close several times (75, 80, maybe 93, 98, 99, 01?, 06, 07) to winning it all, and I think that explains the frustration that a lot of us old-timers have. (Younger fans should also be frustrated, I guess, but for some of us the getting close over decades becomes a drip drip drip, a water torture of sorts.) So when Terry comes in talking Cup in the short term, then retains Ruff and Regier, finally pulls the plug, and now we're rock bottom in year 3 (4, whatever), it's beyond maddening. I agree totally, but in reality, we all should have seen this coming after TPegs retained Darcy. It was going to take some time for the new owner to figure things out. At least he is willing to give things a chance, as maddening as that is, and yet still pull the trigger. It doesn't happen as fast as we would want, but I do think TPegs is on a learning curve and we will see where the latest iteration leads the team and what may or may not be learned from the current management structure. I am hoping for the best ASAP, but in reality know this is going to take some time. In the mean time, I hope the talent coming up make the team more enjoyable to watch... it is still very painful and the fact that there are Darcy slackers... Stafford and Leino still on this team drives me up a wall. But this year is a waste, just wish the decisions for next year 2015 draft could actually happen now... knowing that is impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) I agree totally, but in reality, we all should have seen this coming after TPegs retained Darcy. It was going to take some time for the new owner to figure things out. At least he is willing to give things a chance, as maddening as that is, and yet still pull the trigger. It doesn't happen as fast as we would want, but I do think TPegs is on a learning curve and we will see where the latest iteration leads the team and what may or may not be learned from the current management structure. I am hoping for the best ASAP, but in reality know this is going to take some time. In the mean time, I hope the talent coming up make the team more enjoyable to watch... it is still very painful and the fact that there are Darcy slackers... Stafford and Leino still on this team drives me up a wall. But this year is a waste, just wish the decisions for next year 2015 draft could actually happen now... knowing that is impossible. Taking two years to can Lindy and almost three to dump Darcy brings up the issue of the quality of Terry's advisors. I said it at the time ad nauseam, but Ken Sawyer, Ted Black and Cliff Benson were money, not hockey, men. The robust fan support at the time had to play a role in those guys saying, hey, Darcy's done a heckuva job. I feel a lot better now that a guy with real hockey chops in Craig Patrick is in the mix. But, man, there are a lot of guys in Terry's flat management structure. The aforementioned advisors; Pat, Craig and Tim; Battista; the HarborCenter staff; even the wifey. I'll be happy if the original advisors (and wifey) never have a hand in hockey decisions again. Edited February 10, 2014 by PASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Taking two years to can Lindy and almost three to dump Darcy brings up the issue of the quality of Terry's advisors. I said it at the time ad nauseam, but Ken Sawyer, Ted Black and Cliff Benson were money, not hockey, men. The robust fan support at the time had to play a role in those guys saying, hey, Darcy's done a heckuva job. I feel a lot better now that a guy with real hockey chops in Craig Patrick is in the mix. But, man, there are a lot of guys in Terry's flat management structure. The aforementioned advisors; Pat, Craig and Tim; Battista; the HarborCenter staff; even the wifey. I'll be happy if the original advisors (and wifey) never have a hand in hockey decisions again. I agree. This as you've pointed out was the problem. Hopefully Terry as the fanboy has taken a step back and put his trust in the new guys to bring him through the wilderness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 I agree. This as you've pointed out was the problem. Hopefully Terry as the fanboy has taken a step back and put his trust in the new guys to bring him through the wilderness. I give Pegula the full benefit of the doubt that he wants to win, now. It's fair to question his judgement, and even motives at times, but I was more afraid he would go down with the ship and give up trying to win because of the "ungrateful fans". He didn't. He changed course with the people around him. Sure, a bunch of us saw the disaster that was headed this way by Pegula's early actions, but the damage is done and at least he went out and got some guys who aren't looking just for a paycheck, who have strong opinions, who know people, and who deserve respect in almost all facets. Tim Murray will not be here if Pegula meddles. He is scout to the bone, and at least admits it, asking for a financial guy to help with the contract stuff. Lafontaine is strong enough to have heated debates with Murray, in the name of winning and opinion. I don't know that this will be a Cup team in 5 years, but I fully have confidence in the people in charge and that they will be given the resources by Pegula, and can include him in the discussions and keep him up to date while not laying down ala Darcy. Some have said that if Lafontaine or Murray leave in the next year or so....we have real trouble up top, and I will agree. I can't see Murray staying if he isn't let alone to do his job. And as to the concern of him working 7 years as an AGM....it was for family. There should be some moves soon. Then I may have to go to the closet and find my tool sharpener. I think I will be happy though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Taking two years to can Lindy and almost three to dump Darcy brings up the issue of the quality of Terry's advisors. I said it at the time ad nauseam, but Ken Sawyer, Ted Black and Cliff Benson were money, not hockey, men. The robust fan support at the time had to play a role in those guys saying, hey, Darcy's done a heckuva job. I feel a lot better now that a guy with real hockey chops in Craig Patrick is in the mix. But, man, there are a lot of guys in Terry's flat management structure. The aforementioned advisors; Pat, Craig and Tim; Battista; the HarborCenter staff; even the wifey. I'll be happy if the original advisors (and wifey) never have a hand in hockey decisions again. (not directed at you GoDD) but general thoughts Just curious, what professional sports program has won with a disengaged owner? I can't think of one. Other sports....Rooney, Kraft, Jones, Debartolo, Steinbrenner, Ilitch, in hockey the Patricks. all extremely engaged. This idea that the owner should step back and let someone run the club completely hands off is a crazy bias developing here. Pegula knows his limitations. He's a generalist. But the town and the club need him. I take issue with the word "meddles" Pegula is a GM's wet dream compared to Melnyk, Wang, Cohen, Katz, and the old Wirtz's. Even Jacobs in Boston has been much more activist with his team over the years than Pegula seems to show. Anyway...this meddling owner idea, I really find laughable. The idea he took so long to get rid of the former management team as evidence of meddling is a great contradiction. What a twist of logic! (His failure to act was an act of meddling?) Presumably the problem was Pegula wasn't engaged enough - not that he wasn't trusting his people to do their work. Carry on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 The idea he took so long to get rid of the former management team as evidence of meddling is a great contradiction. What a twist of logic! (His failure to act was an act of meddling?) If I remember correctly, the theory put forth was that DR was a yes man / weasel and that TP kept him around to allow his meddling to continue unencumbered. Or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 If I remember correctly, the theory put forth was that DR was a yes man / weasel and that TP kept him around to allow his meddling to continue unencumbered. Or something like that. How was Darcy Regier any different under any of the ownership he worked for? He was pretty much the same guy. A natural buy and hold stock investor. Anyway, it still strikes me as silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 How was Darcy Regier any different under any of the ownership he worked for? He was pretty much the same guy. A natural buy and hold stock investor. Anyway, it still strikes me as silly. I agree. I'm not in the meddling camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Darcy is quoted as "I talk to Terry everyday." I will PROMISE you this....if Terry feels the need to talk to Tim Murray everyday, Murray will be gone by December. Feel free as the owner to shape your organization's vision, and to even present ideas....but there are plenty of good managers in every aspect of life who can't be bothered...especially when you are constantly evaluating, and planning, and working. Type A managers and leaders can only fake a smile for so long. Darcy would talk to Terry every day and ooze survival all over him. I don't mind Pegula being there for big events like the draft table, or hovering and observing trade deadline week. Those are great times as a fan and should be enjoyed by the owner. I don't want to see a video of the owner's daughter saying her dad picked out a $40 million defenseman though. For anyone who has heard Pegula talk the past 3 years....he may be dedicated to wanting to win a championship, but to honestly lump him in with families who lived and understood their crafts like the Rooneys, DiBartelos, and Stienbrenners......really? He didn't even know the team was for sale!!! Hopefully in 2037, after 3 Stanley Cups, new owner Jessie Pegula will have gained the chops and acumen to be like those mentioned. For now...Pegula reminded me more of Ted Turner. I'm surprised he didn't get behind the bench himself for a stint. Hopefully we have our John Shcuerholz and Stan Kasten now in Murray and Lafontaine. As soon as Turner stuck to TV and ranching day to day and hired those two, it was a straight upshot for a team that was a joke for close to a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 10, 2014 Report Share Posted February 10, 2014 Ghost, it's legal in New York State. Marry me. Immediately. You complete me. I wish I knew how to quit you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Darcy is quoted as "I talk to Terry everyday." I will PROMISE you this....if Terry feels the need to talk to Tim Murray everyday, Murray will be gone by December. Nonsense. They will talk everyday, They do talk everyday. They are going to talk everyday. And nearly every owner does. and Murray will be here for years, most likely. Just informative chats. Sometimes not more than a few minutes. It is more one way than anything....but you guys can start calling him a weasel now. Darcy talked to Tom Gallisano everyday too. Edited February 11, 2014 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Now with LaFontaine there I could see a scenario where LaFontaine is the one reporting to Terry on a daily basis, and Murray to LaFontaine. Edited February 11, 2014 by Lanny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Ghost, it's legal in New York State. Marry me. Immediately. You complete me. I wish I knew how to quit you. It's all much more human than you crackpots realize. :) The owners are much more interested in league matters, and much less about individual player moves. These owners own the league for heavens sake. It's more about who calls Bettman, who needs to be in New York or Toronto, do you think we should host this or that kind of stuff. Of course they talk. Why shouldn't or wouldn't they? Edited February 11, 2014 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Nonsense. They will talk everyday, They do talk everyday. They are going to talk everyday. And nearly every owner does. and Murray will be here for years, most likely. Just informative chats. Sometimes not more than a few minutes. It is more one way than anything....but you guys can start calling him a weasel now. Darcy talked to Tom Gallisano everyday too. There is NO WAY Tim Murray will talk to Pegula every day. I'm assuming that Battista will be the observer/reporter THROUGH, Lafontaine, and Patty is the PR guy to keep Pegula in line. Murray didn't have the patience to fake cordiality his first week on the job with his direct co-workers. 200 word question to him....one word answer. He said so. Murray only needs to talk to Pegula when he is ready to make a deal, sign a guy, or to discuss team vision. If Pegula has 20 questions on, "Hey, when is that Ruhweedel coming back up? You see that Sharks/Kings game the other night? That Carter guy sure has a good shot. How do you think Girgensons looks? Gus sure is a tough one."......Murray is going to go apesh!t. There can be a monthly meeting where he can get all those questions in, or heck, maybe even on Friday at 4:55PM.....but there is no reason for constant conversation when the owner is not at a level to understand or evaluate moves other than opening his checkbook and keeping fans in the seats. That's all Darcy DID do....placated to ownership to keep his job. He made 1 trade a year at the same time. It's all much more human than you crackpots realize. :) The owners are much more interested in league matters, and much less about individual player moves. These owners own the league for heavens sake. It's more about who calls Bettman, who needs to be in New York or Toronto, do you think we should host this or that kind of stuff. Of course they talk. Why shouldn't or wouldn't they? That's Operations and Corporate...not Player development. You have Lafontaine and Black for that now. There is NO need for Tim Murray to be bothered by his owner on a daily basis unless Gordie Howe, Bobby Orr, or Wayne Gretzky suddenly owns the Sabres! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Tim Murray is my breath of fresh air. In 4 or 5 years if things are still in the crapper and showing no signs of improvement I'll call for his head. Just like I did for Darcys pretty well since I joined this forum. Back then there were many more voices that felt he should be given another chance to prove what he could do. He had already proven what he couldn't do at that point. The best thing TP has done since he bought this team was the hiring of PLT to oversee the hockey department. All I want is for TP to stay out of the wheelhouse and let the hockey guys do their jobs. We don't need a Charles Wang/Garth Snow combo for the Sabres. Its terrys team. He can do what he wants obviously. Talk to the guys. Stay involved. Feel relevant/ in charge. But for God sake let the hockey guys make the moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Ghost, it's legal in New York State. Marry me. Immediately. You complete me. I wish I knew how to quit you. We have to go to Utah because I need variety..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 There is NO WAY Tim Murray will talk to Pegula every day. I'm assuming that Battista will be the observer/reporter THROUGH, Lafontaine, and Patty is the PR guy to keep Pegula in line. Murray didn't have the patience to fake cordiality his first week on the job with his direct co-workers. 200 word question to him....one word answer. He said so. Murray only needs to talk to Pegula when he is ready to make a deal, sign a guy, or to discuss team vision. If Pegula has 20 questions on, "Hey, when is that Ruhweedel coming back up? You see that Sharks/Kings game the other night? That Carter guy sure has a good shot. How do you think Girgensons looks? Gus sure is a tough one."......Murray is going to go apesh!t. There can be a monthly meeting where he can get all those questions in, or heck, maybe even on Friday at 4:55PM.....but there is no reason for constant conversation when the owner is not at a level to understand or evaluate moves other than opening his checkbook and keeping fans in the seats. That's all Darcy DID do....placated to ownership to keep his job. He made 1 trade a year at the same time. It's just silly though. This is why...and this is what you don't see...... Bettman works for Terry Pegula, Murray works for Terry Pegula. They both work for Pegula. Talking everyday is not about sexy team moves, it is mostly about the business of hockey. "Bettman is asking about this Tim, how do we want to weigh in?" type of stuff. Pegula doesn't just own the Sabres...he is part of a cartel that owns the league. And lastly.....I give up. :D That's all I got for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 They probably snapchat every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 They probably snapchat every day. They are old school. Steam baths in the sauna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Shannon's +/- Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I'm failing to see the problem in an owner talking to a GM on a daily basis? In my opinion a balance needs to be struck so one doesn't look like an absentee owner, to the other end of the spectrum where one doesn't want to be seen as meddling. Becoming familiar with the plans of the guy running your team and understanding his vision in an ongoing manner should help to evaluate him in his job, right? Does spending 10-15 minutes of your workday chatting up the guy signing your paycheck really stunt your effectiveness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I'm failing to see the problem in an owner talking to a GM on a daily basis? In my opinion a balance needs to be struck so one doesn't look like an absentee owner, to the other end of the spectrum where one doesn't want to be seen as meddling. Becoming familiar with the plans of the guy running your team and understanding his vision in an ongoing manner should help to evaluate him in his job, right? Does spending 10-15 minutes of your workday chatting up the guy signing your paycheck really stunt your effectiveness? Depends on what the discussion is. If the discussion every day is giving TP every bit of info going on and him giving his opinion than I wouldn't like it. If it's just soft discussion and occasional talks about what is going on on the phones and whatnot then it's okay. The owner will obviously be updated on any information regarding deals that are close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 They are old school. Steam baths in the sauna. ...with Jake & Elwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Owner talks to his GM every day therefore owner is an egomaniacal meddler. Makes perfect sense to me. Edited February 11, 2014 by Claude_Verret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 They are old school. Steam baths in the sauna. ...with Jake & Elwood Wow, that was the first movie reference I thought of too. "C'mon, guys...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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