Hoss Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 First things first...the answer to the question is yes. I remember 86-87 vividly, first year I owned seasons right out of college. Not even close. Next thing and way OT, and I ask this seriously.....how do you have opinions on this? See I have no clue outside of what you guys say on these guys...just zero . Football and basketball I can at least see on TV, no minor hockey on TV. Are there places on the interwebs to watch games, all star tourneys that are televised etc? My opinions, since I don't have access to a lot of their games, are mostly based on what you read about them. What are their strengths? Weaknesses? Etc. Then you compare those to other players of similar stature and it helps you get an idea of where they project. I've seen I think three of Reinhart's games. Watched one of Ekblad's and I've never seen Nylander play outside of highlights. Carolina was willing to deal according to Rutherford. That is when DR and DD must have felt Risto at 8 was better than Lindholm at 5. They also wanted Sekera to go with the 8. Still think we were better off going forward. That includes Nickushkin or however you spell his name. Such a baffling idea, though. WHY would they turn that down? I tend to believe they would've taken Monahan at 5, but why do you turn that down? Honestly, I think it may have worked out that way yes. If that is true we need a real GM in here who has some vision and won't get pidgeoned holed by the Scouting department. Yea, if you listen to those videos it shows that Regier had very little say on the picks it seems. I'm okay with the guys we got. But I just don't feel like we needed both. Would've LOVED Anthony Mantha at 16 (he has 16 goals and 12 assists through 9 games in the Q right now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Such a baffling idea, though. WHY would they turn that down? I tend to believe they would've taken Monahan at 5, but why do you turn that down? I think it could be as simple as Risto was their guy. Or they just didn't think the difference between Risto and Monahan/Lindolm was enough to justify giving up anything of value. Edit: FWIW I recall the alleged deal being #8, Sekera, and a 2nd. I'd still have done it, but saying no isn't unreasonable IMO. Edited October 15, 2013 by TrueBluePhD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 If there is no franchise type players in this draft then trade the pick. This is a discussion for another day but we need a lot more than Sam Reinhart. If the top pick is not a sure fire immediate top 6 player then use that pick to get some NHL proven players in here. The #1 pick also comes with a heavy pricetag salary wise. If this year's number one is the equal of last year's number 7 then i look at all offers. Absolutely no chance. You don't have an absolutely terrible year and then trade away the #1 pick. You take your guy. It doesn't matter if the draft is weak or strong. There is so much benefit to having a number one guy on your team. Obviously there's the player potential. The money it'd bring in for jersey sales/ticket sales. It would help fans get at least a little excited. I think it could be as simple as Risto was their guy. Or they just didn't think the difference between Risto and Monahan/Lindolm was enough to justify giving up anything of value. The problem is that they ended up doing basically the same deal later picking up a second round pick. I can understand it to a point, but we really need guys like Monahan/Lindholm. Taking two defensemen when we already have a whole bunch of NHL prospects there makes little sense. That's what you do if you have the luxury to do so. We didn't/don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 The problem is that they ended up doing basically the same deal later picking up a second round pick. I can understand it to a point, but we really need guys like Monahan/Lindholm. Taking two defensemen when we already have a whole bunch of NHL prospects there makes little sense. That's what you do if you have the luxury to do so. We didn't/don't. I'm with you, trust me. But thinking the difference between Risto and the centers wasn't worth Sekera and a #2 in such a deep draft isn't fundamentally insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 The problem is that they ended up doing basically the same deal later picking up a second round pick. I can understand it to a point, but we really need guys like Monahan/Lindholm. Taking two defensemen when we already have a whole bunch of NHL prospects there makes little sense. That's what you do if you have the luxury to do so. We didn't/don't. I'm not saying whether or not they should have made the Sekera and 8 for 5 and Mcbain if it was available but the trade for the second rounder is superior to moving up 3 spots IMO. The Sabres picked up pick 35. IMO adding 35 > moving from 8-5. The Sabres obviously valued having Compher and Risto more than Lindholm/Monaghan. Secondly, I don't think too many people thought Zadarov would be sitting there at pick 16. I think their intention was to go into the draft and take Risto at 8 because they valued him the highest and then wanted to take the best available forward at 16 but when Zadarov was still there it was just too much for them to pass up. There was alot of chatter about how great Lindholm will be at the draft (which may very well be true) but I'm nowhere near ready to say Lindholm will be a better prospect then Risto let alone Risto AND Compher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm with you, trust me. But thinking the difference between Risto and the centers wasn't worth Sekera and a #2 in such a deep draft isn't fundamentally insane. True. I think it speaks to a lack of a plan than them being crazy. As for the rest of that draft, Compher will be a nice addition to the team in 4 years with a different gm and coach. I'm not saying whether or not they should have made the Sekera and 8 for 5 and Mcbain if it was available but the trade for the second rounder is superior to moving up 3 spots IMO. The Sabres picked up pick 35. IMO adding 35 > moving from 8-5. The Sabres obviously valued having Compher and Risto more than Lindholm/Monaghan. Secondly, I don't think too many people thought Zadarov would be sitting there at pick 16. I think their intention was to go into the draft and take Risto at 8 because they valued him the highest and then wanted to take the best available forward at 16 but when Zadarov was still there it was just too much for them to pass up. There was alot of chatter about how great Lindholm will be at the draft (which may very well be true) but I'm nowhere near ready to say Lindholm will be a better prospect then Risto let alone Risto AND Compher. Zadorov should not have been available at 16. He needs to go back to London and develop but he is going to be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm with you, trust me. But thinking the difference between Risto and the centers wasn't worth Sekera and a #2 in such a deep draft isn't fundamentally insane. I'm not saying whether or not they should have made the Sekera and 8 for 5 and Mcbain if it was available but the trade for the second rounder is superior to moving up 3 spots IMO. The Sabres picked up pick 35. IMO adding 35 > moving from 8-5. The Sabres obviously valued having Compher and Risto more than Lindholm/Monaghan. Secondly, I don't think too many people thought Zadarov would be sitting there at pick 16. I think their intention was to go into the draft and take Risto at 8 because they valued him the highest and then wanted to take the best available forward at 16 but when Zadarov was still there it was just too much for them to pass up. There was alot of chatter about how great Lindholm will be at the draft (which may very well be true) but I'm nowhere near ready to say Lindholm will be a better prospect then Risto let alone Risto AND Compher. I'm thinking more based on THIS draft. In this draft there was considered to be six ELITE prospects. Getting into the top five lands one of them. We were just on the outside looking in, as usual. And generally 35 + 8 is about = to moving from 8 to 5. In a draft like that one, I tend to lean towards taking the move up. But I do really like Compher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I'm thinking more based on THIS draft. In this draft there was considered to be six ELITE prospects. Getting into the top five lands one of them. We were just on the outside looking in, as usual. And generally 35 + 8 is about = to moving from 8 to 5. In a draft like that one, I tend to lean towards taking the move up. But I do really like Compher. I think it's because I've liked everything I've read and watched on Compher that I'm not as upset as others that we didn't move up but still traded Sekera. Sounds like this kid plays with a ton of energy and competitiveness. It's sad when you have to consider things as competitiveness when evaluating a professional athlete, but we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Different topic, but a serious question: How many "tankers" do we have on here? I fall under this category. I don't necessarily root for the team to lose, and I also realize there's still A LOT of hockey to be played, but I don't get upset when the team loses right now. Are there other posters on here that want this team to just lose as much as reasonably possible to lock up a top pick? I think it'd be good because this team needs a TRULY elite prospect. And losing makes it more likely that we move Vanek/Miller/Ott sooner rather than later. And the best part: makes it much more likely that Darcy gets fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) #suckforMcDavid #DarcyBlack13-15 #lackofchangewecanbelievein Edited October 15, 2013 by BuffaloSoldier2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 My opinions, since I don't have access to a lot of their games, are mostly based on what you read about them. What are their strengths? Weaknesses? Etc. Then you compare those to other players of similar stature and it helps you get an idea of where they project. I've seen I think three of Reinhart's games. Watched one of Ekblad's and I've never seen Nylander play outside of highlights. Yea, if you listen to those videos it shows that Regier had very little say on the picks it seems. Okay, Thx for that. As I said, only opinions I have on these guys come form the real hockey die hards on this board...I see NHL games, the occasional college game...and that be it. Keep up the opinions, for those of us too lazy to read it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Okay, Thx for that. As I said, only opinions I have on these guys come form the real hockey die hards on this board...I see NHL games, the occasional college game...and that be it. Keep up the opinions, for those of us too lazy to read it helps! Hey no problem. I'm definitely no expert. But I could at least be considered as an aggregate of the real expert opinions haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro60 Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I want to see the pictures Darcy has that keeps him employed with the Sabres. They have to be priceless. That is the only way, IMO, he has been able to hang on to his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorenzo Von Matterhorn Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Different topic, but a serious question: How many "tankers" do we have on here? I fall under this category. I don't necessarily root for the team to lose, and I also realize there's still A LOT of hockey to be played, but I don't get upset when the team loses right now. Are there other posters on here that want this team to just lose as much as reasonably possible to lock up a top pick? I think it'd be good because this team needs a TRULY elite prospect. And losing makes it more likely that we move Vanek/Miller/Ott sooner rather than later. And the best part: makes it much more likely that Darcy gets fired. I fall in this category, but I'm thinking a 2 season tank. After that, evaluate all the pieces that are still around, decide which are in the future and which are not, then build around the youth we like & move some of the others for supporting pieces, go out and compete in 2015-16, not like the cap will even be close to a problem for us then either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Different topic, but a serious question: How many "tankers" do we have on here? I fall under this category. I don't necessarily root for the team to lose, and I also realize there's still A LOT of hockey to be played, but I don't get upset when the team loses right now. Are there other posters on here that want this team to just lose as much as reasonably possible to lock up a top pick? I think it'd be good because this team needs a TRULY elite prospect. And losing makes it more likely that we move Vanek/Miller/Ott sooner rather than later. And the best part: makes it much more likely that Darcy gets fired. I am. Don't get me wrong, I can't actively cheer against them while the game is going on...but in the grand scheme, yes, I want them to tank. I'd be even more enthusiastic about tanking if I thought it would cost Regier his job...but I'll happily take some Regier-proof prospects :P (By Regier-proof, I mean guys who can elevate a team even without the proper complementary pieces) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 I am. Don't get me wrong, I can't actively cheer against them while the game is going on...but in the grand scheme, yes, I want them to tank. I'd be even more enthusiastic about tanking if I thought it would cost Regier his job...but I'll happily take some Regier-proof prospects :P (By Regier-proof, I mean guys who can elevate a team even without the proper complementary pieces) I'm with you here. I'd rather they tanked to lose Regier than tank to gain a pick. The problem is it appears they ( the players ) are simply tanking because Regier hasn't given them any help. This is a dreadful team but with a couple of pieces in the right places they'd be respectable. Maybe not contender respectable but compete respectable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted October 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 The crowd in First Niagara Center saw the Sabres make more dubious history. Buffalo fell to 1-7-1, matching the 1993-94 edition for worst nine-game start in the franchise record book. http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/sabres-nhl/slow-starting-sabres-outclassed-by-canucks-20131017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 ...for management to try to tell fans this is all part of "the plan" is downright insulting. I'm actually glad to see the stadium was empty tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 ...for management to try to tell fans this is all part of "the plan" is downright insulting. I'm actually glad to see the stadium was empty tonight. I appreciate the honesty from the organization. If all these picks & prospects work out (ok most) you are looking at efficient rebuild. 2014 1st rounder-2014 1st rounder (Vanek)-Armia Foligno-Hodgson-Girgensons Flynn-Larsson-2014 2nd rounder Tropp-Kea-??? Risto-Ehrhoff Pysyk- Zadorov McCabe-Myers Enroth-Hackett That's not including Grigorenko or any return on other players moved this season. I think we're going to be fine. It's just going to really suck for the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 I appreciate the honesty from the organization. If all these picks & prospects work out (ok most) you are looking at efficient rebuild. 2014 1st rounder-2014 1st rounder (Vanek)-Armia Foligno-Hodgson-Girgensons Flynn-Larsson-2014 2nd rounder Tropp-Kea-??? Risto-Ehrhoff Pysyk- Zadorov McCabe-Myers Enroth-Hackett That's not including Grigorenko or any return on other players moved this season. I think we're going to be fine. It's just going to really suck for the foreseeable future. I definitely like the defensemen in the system and think they can be a very strong group at some point. But, I don't see a dangerous offensive team emerging without significant additions/changes. IMHO, adding a #1 pick or two and substracting Vanek (the closes thing we have to a superstar now) probably doesn't get us up to the elite level for many, many years if at all. I also think it is presumptive to hope that we get a bunch of #1 picks and they all turn out to be elite scorers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Man, I could see them play for $25 on Saturday but I kinda don't want to. This sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 I definitely like the defensemen in the system and think they can be a very strong group at some point. But, I don't see a dangerous offensive team emerging without significant additions/changes. IMHO, adding a #1 pick or two and substracting Vanek (the closes thing we have to a superstar now) probably doesn't get us up to the elite level for many, many years if at all. I also think it is presumptive to hope that we get a bunch of #1 picks and they all turn out to be elite scorers. If we draft in the top 3 the next couple of drafts, were getting first line players Man, I could see them play for $25 on Saturday but I kinda don't want to. This sucks. Fight night at the BCA. Rematch against Utica!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 If we draft in the top 3 the next couple of drafts, were getting first line players Fight night at the BCA. Rematch against Utica!! That might be a lot better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Man, I could see them play for $25 on Saturday but I kinda don't want to. This sucks. Go for it. What are the chances they'll get shut out two games in a row? (Probably only like 40%.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 18, 2013 Report Share Posted October 18, 2013 Man, I could see them play for $25 on Saturday but I kinda don't want to. This sucks. Keep looking Saturday. My guess is at worst you can get in for $18. Lower level for $35. In every game except the opener, you could get in for $12. Club seats $29 and lower $24 for majority. If this gets disgustingly bad, I may pull off a Drane Campaign at the arena. I'd pay $20 a game in the clubs just for the train wreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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