TheMadCap Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Well, since Paul H seems to think that even if we lost the remaining games 10-0 the Darcy and Lindy clown show ( brought to you by Terry and Ted Productions) would still be here next year, then I DO want them to make the playoffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 The Blackhawks story has yet to be completed. Toews and Kane have not seen their last Stanley Cup. Only injuries will keep Crosby and Malkin from winning additional Cups. Both teams have a solid foundation to build on because they took advantage of hitting rock bottom. And there you go! They rely on two to three superstars to carry the team. One gets hurt and they're screwed!! Hell, the Hawks aren't even hurt and they still can't win. Do you think in the cap era that they'll be able to build any kind of team when they're paying 6 guys in excess of 5.5 million/yr? No. You can mark my word, some of those superstars will not remain with that team because they'll figure out that they can't win long term when relying on a small group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 You're right, there are multiple ways to build a team, and the way you mentioned is one of them. Your way is for teams that suck and have nothing going for them. This Sabres team does not suck, in fact far from it. Without shipping off the entire team in an effort to hit rock bottom, your way will never work. If a GM were to dump his entire team the entire city would be calling for his head. For ###### sake, this is the FIRST year in the Pegula era. If anybody thought this team would be transformed into a Cup contender in one year they are insane. In fact, go back on this forum and read what we were all saying, the general concensus was that it would take a couple of years. This team is substantially better than last year and (I don't like to use this excuse) if it weren't for all the injuries we wouldn't be worrying about getting into a playoff spot right now. We might not be a top 3 team, but we wouldn't be scoreboard watching every night. It's been one year!! Some people have so little patience yet they say they are willing to be at the bottom of the league for multiple years to get good draft picks. I just don't get it. If a deal is to be had that can improve this team now and for the future, do it! If not, let's ride this wave and see if we can make the playoffs again and improve during the offseason. What is our record this year when the team is healthy (80% of our starters in the lineup)? If we assume that injuries were the issue then it should be very apparent that we don't need to ship off the entire team to hit rock bottom. Apparently it only takes a few of our starters ou tof the lineup to trigger the outright suckage. So your point about having to sell the whole damn thing off isn't really accurate using your logic. And noone thought they would be a contender in one year, so send that bit of hyperbole packing. What was expected is positive progress. You say the team is better than last year. I say the standing show that at best it is no better, and likely not as good. You may "feel" like the team is better but there is objective evidence to the contrary that I am basing my POV on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Oh the humanity!! Could you imagine this board if the Sabres had six 5.5+ mil/yr players and were only 7 points up on the last playoff spot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 If we assume that injuries were the issue then it should be very apparent that we don't need to ship off the entire team to hit rock bottom. Apparently it only takes a few of our starters ou tof the lineup to trigger the outright suckage. So your point about having to sell the whole damn thing off isn't really accurate using your logic. And noone thought they would be a contender in one year, so send that bit of hyperbole packing. What was expected is positive progress. You say the team is better than last year. I say the standing show that at best it is no better, and likely not as good. You may "feel" like the team is better but there is objective evidence to the contrary that I am basing my POV on. That is just flat out factually wrong. From TSN to Yahoo to the Sabres front office and its fan base. This team was expected to be a contender this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Oh the humanity!! Could you imagine this board if the Sabres had six 5.5+ mil/yr players and were only 7 points up on the last playoff spot? You mean like Pittsburgh is? I'd be pretty comfortable in Pittsburgh's situation right now. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 If we assume that injuries were the issue then it should be very apparent that we don't need to ship off the entire team to hit rock bottom. Apparently it only takes a few of our starters ou tof the lineup to trigger the outright suckage. So your point about having to sell the whole damn thing off isn't really accurate using your logic. And noone thought they would be a contender in one year, so send that bit of hyperbole packing. What was expected is positive progress. You say the team is better than last year. I say the standing show that at best it is no better, and likely not as good. You may "feel" like the team is better but there is objective evidence to the contrary that I am basing my POV on. A few? Are you serious? Aren't we only like 20 man/games away from breaking the team record and still have 20 games left? This team was 10-5 before the injuries started and are 8-3-2 since they became mostly healthy. 18-8-2 is pretty damn good to me. And that's with Stafford and Boyes completely wasting a roster spot. Fill those two spots with somebody who gives a ######, and use Roy as bait if they can package him together with a pick/prospect to get a #1 center. That's it. It's not theat tough....... quite simple actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 That is just flat out factually wrong. From TSN to Yahoo to the Sabres front office and its fan base. This team was expected to be a contender this year. OK, You are correct. There were folks with that expectation. If my memory serves, most of them on this board are now hoping for lightning in a bottle again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 You mean like Pittsburgh is? I'd be pretty comfortable in Pittsburgh's situation right now. ;) No, I don't mean Pittsburgh because they only have two................. not six. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 / ... This team is substantially better than last year and (I don't like to use this excuse) if it weren't for all the injuries we wouldn't be worrying about getting into a playoff spot right now. ... What is our record this year when the team is healthy (80% of our starters in the lineup)? Not to be an @$$, but how can you say that with a straight face? The injuries played a role, but this team hit the skids after that fateful night against the Bruins. I believe the team was pretty much at full strength when that happened and immediately afterwords. Sure the slide continued as the injuries mounted, but I believe the Lucic hit on Miller was the defining moment. It sent the whole team into a free fall, from which, even though they have been playing much better of late, they have not recovered. The season was doomed from that night against the Bruins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 A few? Are you serious? Aren't we only like 20 man/games away from breaking the team record and still have 20 games left? This team was 10-5 before the injuries started and are 8-3-2 since they became mostly healthy. 18-8-2 is pretty damn good to me. And that's with Stafford and Boyes completely wasting a roster spot. Fill those two spots with somebody who gives a ######, and use Roy as bait if they can package him together with a pick/prospect to get a #1 center. That's it. It's not theat tough....... quite simple actually. Yeah, a few. I'm serious. What did it take at any one given point and time? Average about 3 players out of the lineup during any one game at any one point in time in the season. 3 players is enough to create the suckage. Move three, bring in 3 prospects. Prospects learn to play in the big league and we improve our draft. Sign a few centers in the offseason. No, I don't mean Pittsburgh because they only have two................. not six. :doh: only 7 points up on 8th place. With a higher payroll than Chicago. I don;t care how many $5.5M players on the roster. 7 point sup on 8th is pretty comfortable and I'd be good with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Not to be an @$$, but how can you say that with a straight face? The injuries played a role, but this team hit the skids after that faitful night against the Bruins. I believe the team was pretty much at full strength when that happened and immediately afterwords. Sure the slide continued as the injuries mounted, but I believe the Lucic hit on Miller was the defining moment. It sent the whole team into a free fall, from which, even though they have been playing much better of late, they have not recovered. The season was doomed from that night against the Bruins. That night was a joke, I agree with you on that. But yes I can say that with a straight face. Enroth is better than Lalime. Ehrhoff is better than Rivet. Regehr is better than Butler. Leino IMO is better than Connolly or will be (of course that's not tough to do). The rest of the team is still here and a couple aren't living up to last years numbers. Get rid of them and see where this goes. Yeah, a few. I'm serious. What did it take at any one given point and time? Average about 3 players out of the lineup during any one game at any one point in time in the season. 3 players is enough to create the suckage. Move three, bring in 3 prospects. Prospects learn to play in the big league and we improve our draft. Sign a few centers in the offseason. only 7 points up on 8th place. With a higher payroll than Chicago. I don;t care how many $5.5M players on the roster. 7 point sup on 8th is pretty comfortable and I'd be good with it. As of last week BFLO had 252 man/games lost to Chicago's 64. To me that's the difference between 27 and 33 wins. If not more. So you'd be happy with a team like Chicago with as many superstars as they have to be in the position they are? As healthy as they've been? You'd be happy with just good? Can you imagine if the Sabres were healthy all year, had that many superstars and were in 6th place in the conference? This board would be in an uproar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 That night was a joke, I agree with you on that. But yes I can say that with a straight face. Enroth is better than Lalime. Ehrhoff is better than Rivet. Regehr is better than Butler. Leino IMO is better than Connolly or will be (of course that's not tough to do). The rest of the team is still here and a couple aren't living up to last years numbers. Get rid of them and see where this goes. On paper sure and even in reality, but on the ice this year ... not so much, at least as reflected in the standings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 On paper sure and even in reality, but on the ice this year ... not so much, at least as reflected in the standings. Really? So putting Rivet back in place of Ehrhoff wouldn't make any difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 As of last week BFLO had 252 man/games lost to Chicago's 64. To me that's the difference between 27 and 33 wins. If not more. That's fine and reasonable. Just as long as you realize that your opinion is not based on anything factual. It is just a feeling you have. Others may differ. ;) So you'd be happy with a team like Chicago with as many superstars as they have to be in the position they are? As healthy as they've been? You'd be happy with just good? Can you imagine if the Sabres were healthy all year, had that many superstars and were in 6th place in the conference? This board would be in an uproar. Given the success that Chicago has had with their core I think the board would have pretty high expectations of playoff success from wherever they end up seeded. Just like Philly and Pitt fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Really? So putting Rivet back in place of Ehrhoff wouldn't make any difference? You seem to have misunderstood my point. I agree with you that all your examples show player upgrades, but the results are poorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 That's fine and reasonable. Just as long as you realize that your opinion is not based on anything factual. It is just a feeling you have. Others may differ. ;) Given the success that Chicago has had with their core I think the board would have pretty high expectations of playoff success from wherever they end up seeded. Just like Philly and Pitt fans. I get that. I know it's a feeling I have and the same goes for everybody else on here. Man/games lost seems about as factual as you can get. But as far as how we feel about what is going to happen and what should be done differs. I understannd that and so should you. If the Sabres were in this position but were healthy all year I might have a different opinion. Holes have been filled but Boyes and Stafford have opened up new ones. Deal with those issues (preferrably before the deadline) and see what happens. If you can't package Roy together with something to get a #1, deal with it during the offseason. And if I were a Hawks fan I would be much more pissed right now than I am with our team. If they don't get their act together they won't be a playoff success this year. With six $5.5 mil a year players AND healthy they should be competing for the President's Trophy. You seem to have misunderstood my point. I agree with you that all your examples show player upgrades, but the results are poorer. The record is poorer, but I dont think their performance is. If we had Lalime, Rivet, Butler and Connolly in the lineup this year with the injuries they've had, this team would be at the bottom of the conference by a large margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 You seem to have misunderstood my point. I agree with you that all your examples show player upgrades, but the results are poorer. I wouldn't argue poorer so much as on par with where they should have been last year. They got hot when it finally clicked that TRYING is required to make the playoffs. They're doing it all over again this year (not considering whether or not injuries have a strong or weak correlation). Many of us had said at the beginning of the season that'd we'd know what kind of team we had by Thanksgiving. I know my opinion hasn't changed since then. They're exactly who we thought they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 I wouldn't argue poorer so much as on par with where they should have been last year. They got hot when it finally clicked that TRYING is required to make the playoffs. They're doing it all over again this year (not considering whether or not injuries have a strong or weak correlation). Many of us had said at the beginning of the season that'd we'd know what kind of team we had by Thanksgiving. I know my opinion hasn't changed since then. They're exactly who we thought they were. Me too ... and my Thanksgiving was on Monday, October 10th ... :P . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Well, you've got it a bit backwards. The proper order needs to be, Pegs and Co. realize that real change is needed, change is made, team loses in short term because of it. Team is stronger down the road. And yes, coaches still coach and players still play without regard to draft order. That part should be a given. Not sure if that was condescension. If it was, I'd appreciate it ended. I'm not bringing it. I'd like to see the discussion continue without it. No condescension at all on my part. Not sure how you read that into my post but I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was just merely pointing out the irony in desiring the very result that lead to us wanting the result in the first place. We don't want them to lay down and yet, we want them to lose. Personally, I can't reconcile that. That's not a judgement on Blue or anyone else that feels losing out is our best bet for improvement. Just my take, which isn't any more or less valid than anyone else's around here. GO SABRES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWell Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 i want them to win. not games.... but Stanley Cups. And this team WILL NOT WIN THE CUP. so i say.... lose games now..... win Cups later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 It doesn't matter anymore. The only reason I would want them to collapse is to get Regier, Ruff, and the core out of here. Pegula is obviously dug in with all his merry men, judging by the smugness coming from Darcy and Ted Black. Let them sneak in by a point, let them lose 20 in a row.....whatever. I look at this team sort of like I would an obnoxious, worthless sister-in-law. I want to slap her in the face, but it's my brother's wife and mother of his kids, so I have to shrug and give whatever support I can muster up. But I will dance in the streets the day he divorces that b!tch. (I do not have a brother before the lolipop gang on here gets their panties in a bunch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 It doesn't matter anymore. The only reason I would want them to collapse is to get Regier, Ruff, and the core out of here. Pegula is obviously dug in with all his merry men, judging by the smugness coming from Darcy and Ted Black. Let them sneak in by a point, let them lose 20 in a row.....whatever. I look at this team sort of like I would an obnoxious, worthless sister-in-law. I want to slap her in the face, but it's my brother's wife and mother of his kids, so I have to shrug and give whatever support I can muster up. But I will dance in the streets the day he divorces that b!tch. (I do not have a brother before the lolipop gang on here gets their panties in a bunch). If you had a SIL, would she like lollipops? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calti Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Well, you've got it a bit backwards. The proper order needs to be, Pegs and Co. realize that real change is needed, change is made, team loses in short term because of it. Team is stronger down the road. And yes, coaches still coach and players still play without regard to draft order. That part should be a given. Not sure if that was condescension. If it was, I'd appreciate it ended. I'm not bringing it. I'd like to see the discussion continue without it. finally someone who doesnt pluralize 'regard'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 OK so that accounts for 3 out of the last 16 Cup winners. How did the others do it? The Red Wings sure didn't. The Bruins sure didn't do it. Neither did the Flyers, How did the Rangers get to where they are now? It certainly wasn't because they were a bottom 3 team for several years straight to get the best picks. Your theory is flawed because the majority of the teams did not become Cup winners by being at the bottom of the league for many years straight. And in this day and age of the Cap era, IF any team wins a Cup because of 3-4 years of top picks, their success will be short lived. Just ask the Blackhawks. Dale Tallon learned from his mistakes in Chicago and is going about things a different way down here. My theory isn't a theory. I'm just pointing out that the Avs and Pens disagree with your point, that sucking for years in order to stockpile picks and build a cup winner from there is ludicrous. And I'm also pointing out that I'm not laughing at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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