What has happened to this franchise?

[Bullwinkle]

Patience I can understand. But what are we to be patient for? Tonight's lineup didn't have AHL players mixed in with NHL'ers. This team is at 95% strength. Nearly every team in the league is at that strength at this point in the season.

 

MY opinion on what happened? We have a core that can't even be shamed into putting in maximum effort. Look at tonight's game. With a few minutes left and down 3-1 we are icing Matt freaking Ellis and Paul "don;t hit me in the face" Gaustad. 4 goals and 11 assists between them. And Pat Kaleta's 2 goals and no assists is on the ice with our #2 center and LW. It has gotten so bad that we are putting borderline NHL talent on the ice with the game on the line. Why? Well, the regular guys out at those times aren't cutting it. Why not?

 

2 wingers that are doing what they are expected to do. And a couple of rookies that suddenly are on the bottom lines even though they had been putting up more intensity than the vets. The rest of the forwards are either not committed to the game or are borderline in ability.

 

Stanley Cup within 3 years. Right.

 

Tonight's lineup had two AHLers. McNabb (whom OV blew by like he was standing still to score his first goal) and Kassian (who fought to get the puck and then looked like he didn't know what to do with it after that). Still they played well - for AHLers. And the NHLers who played like AHLers...Pomminstein (who insists on attempting to shoot the puck through people rather than around them), Roy (who played like he was high on drugs), McCormick (who didn't seem to have a purpose out there), Stafford (effort which produces nothing), etc.

 

When I said be patient, you asked "patient for what?". Patient until the entire team gets together and finds its own chemistry. Guys like Myers and Leino need to be a part of this team. The team itself needs to play together for a length of time to see how it can work most effectively. That takes time and I'm betting that TP will take the rest of the year to let that work out.

 

Washington was ripe to be beaten tonight. If that's the best they can do, they won't get past round 1 of the playoffs. Unfortunately we didn't have enough horses pulling in the same direction to make that happen.

[Marvelo]

Since Briere and Drury left, the team's had interchangeable names and faces. They all do the same thing over the years: The defensemen get the yips and give up the puck in their own end and the offense get pushed to the sides and squeezed out. And when they do have a chance, it's almost a surprise and of course they miss. It's been this way since I can remember.

[Robviously]

Patience I can understand. But what are we to be patient for? Tonight's lineup didn't have AHL players mixed in with NHL'ers. This team is at 95% strength. Nearly every team in the league is at that strength at this point in the season.

 

MY opinion on what happened? We have a core that can't even be shamed into putting in maximum effort. Look at tonight's game. With a few minutes left and down 3-1 we are icing Matt freaking Ellis and Paul "don;t hit me in the face" Gaustad. 4 goals and 11 assists between them. And Pat Kaleta's 2 goals and no assists is on the ice with our #2 center and LW. It has gotten so bad that we are putting borderline NHL talent on the ice with the game on the line. Why? Well, the regular guys out at those times aren't cutting it. Why not?

 

2 wingers that are doing what they are expected to do. And a couple of rookies that suddenly are on the bottom lines even though they had been putting up more intensity than the vets. The rest of the forwards are either not committed to the game or are borderline in ability.

 

Stanley Cup within 3 years. Right.

Thread winner.

 

It's not the injuries. The healthy guys we do have just aren't getting the job done. And it's frustrating watching Gaustad, Roy, and Stafford still in Sabres uniforms. Gaustad in a scrum after the whistle is hilarious. He's that guy at the bar who flips out and shakes his fists every time he's mad, but never actually goes through with fighting anyone. He's a paper tiger. Look at the Nashville game: he skates off the ice threatening the Predators goalie and then immediately leaves the game with an injury. And this is one of our leaders???

 

Roy cares more about living large as a pro athlete than he does about winning anything. All I think about now when I see him is the multiple reports that the Sabres were "close" to moving him. They probably were, and the most likely reason he's still on the team is that Darcy was holding out for an extra draft pick or something. That's how we're deciding who the core of our team is? Darcy needed to get that done. Instead, as usual, he waited too long, missed his chance, and now we're stuck with a asset that we'll never get fair value for.

 

Keep Vanek and Pominville. Flush everyone else over the age of 24. The Sabres have a great group of young players/prospects and maybe the new GM and coach can mould them into something.

[Weave]

Tonight's lineup had two AHLers. McNabb (whom OV blew by like he was standing still to score his first goal) and Kassian (who fought to get the puck and then looked like he didn't know what to do with it after that). Still they played well - for AHLers. And the NHLers who played like AHLers...Pomminstein (who insists on attempting to shoot the puck through people rather than around them), Roy (who played like he was high on drugs), McCormick (who didn't seem to have a purpose out there), Stafford (effort which produces nothing), etc.

 

When I said be patient, you asked "patient for what?". Patient until the entire team gets together and finds its own chemistry. Guys like Myers and Leino need to be a part of this team. The team itself needs to play together for a length of time to see how it can work most effectively. That takes time and I'm betting that TP will take the rest of the year to let that work out.

 

Washington was ripe to be beaten tonight. If that's the best they can do, they won't get past round 1 of the playoffs. Unfortunately we didn't have enough horses pulling in the same direction to make that happen.

 

Kassian and McNabb are blue chippers who are ready. And nearly every team in the league has one or two guys on the cusp on their roster so there is nothing exceptional about them being here. You can't really call them AHL'ers at this point. They aren't like Finley, Chewie, and Tropp out there. I'm not willing to accept their presence on the ice as an excuse.

 

And how much more time are we supposed to give the likes of Roy, Stafford, Hecht, Goose, and Kaleta to find chemistry and start to click and make things happen? Cheese and rice, they've been playing together since 2005. Whatinthehell do they need another month or two of games for? Is 15 (or whatever) more games really going to suddenly result in these players changing their character? Playing the body? Aggressively pursuing pucks? I doubt it. The occassional instances where they do show it don't last entire games. We get a period of hustle and work and then two periods of wondering if they can hold the lead. And that's assuming the work and hustle resulted in a lead to begin with.

 

It is long past time to make a change among the core. Line two needs to be replaced. That would be a good start.

[HopefulFuture]

Well, I think the atmosphere at the arena will improve substantially if/when the team puts together a real winning streak.

 

As to whether that will happen -- it either will or it won't. If it doesn't, then I'd expect DR to be canned this summer and the roster to be overhauled.

 

Importantly, though, I think the title of the thread might be a bit alarmist -- the implication is that the franchise is in bad shape. I think that the franchise has probably never been in better shape. This particular group of players isn't good enough, and perhaps the same is true of the GM and/or coach but over the long term I am very confident that the franchise will get there.

I said this 33 years ago, 21 years ago, 7 years ago.

Not that I don't agree that things can change, but I believe in what many are saying here, including yourself, about DR and the roster.

[LTS]

Tonight's lineup had two AHLers. McNabb (whom OV blew by like he was standing still to score his first goal) and Kassian (who fought to get the puck and then looked like he didn't know what to do with it after that). Still they played well - for AHLers. And the NHLers who played like AHLers...Pomminstein (who insists on attempting to shoot the puck through people rather than around them), Roy (who played like he was high on drugs), McCormick (who didn't seem to have a purpose out there), Stafford (effort which produces nothing), etc.

 

When I said be patient, you asked "patient for what?". Patient until the entire team gets together and finds its own chemistry. Guys like Myers and Leino need to be a part of this team. The team itself needs to play together for a length of time to see how it can work most effectively. That takes time and I'm betting that TP will take the rest of the year to let that work out.

 

Washington was ripe to be beaten tonight. If that's the best they can do, they won't get past round 1 of the playoffs. Unfortunately we didn't have enough horses pulling in the same direction to make that happen.

 

Your points on McNabb and Kassian are the perfect description of rookies. Still, does anyone think that those two are going back to Rochester? If they do it will be only until someone can be moved out to make room for them to come back. Given the number of injuries I'm guessing they might not ever have to go back. Still, you will find mistakes like that. Ovechkin makes the most seasoned defensemen look like pylons at times so I'm not surprised it happened to McNabb. Like I said, I did not see the game as I was at the Amerks game. Still, if it was a case of him attempting to stand up Ovechkin at the blue line I will take it because at least one defenseman is trying to stop letting the other team in the zone automatically.

 

Be patient because you can't overhaul your roster on a moments notice. There are 20+ players here and they all count towards the salary cap. You can't just cut them and gain room. You can't just trade them because you need to find someone willing to give up something for them. The trend in the NHL has shifted to farm development and so you don't have teams just giving up prospects for mediocre veterans like the Rangers used to do. We have who we have and some of the players will leave through not having contracts renewed. It's a 3 year plan and we're not through year 1.. patience is all you've got. I look at the bright side. I like how Adam is playing for the most part, I like Kassian, I like McNabb, Vanek is finally showing he's a full time player, we have Myers, Regehr for another year, and Ehrhoff for awhile (his increased fighting is telling me he actually cares if nothing else). We have Gerbe and Ellis who are guys who can set the work ethic level to heights most players don't touch. The locker room will change, there's no doubt but it cannot happen overnight.

 

 

Thread winner.

 

It's not the injuries. The healthy guys we do have just aren't getting the job done. And it's frustrating watching Gaustad, Roy, and Stafford still in Sabres uniforms. Gaustad in a scrum after the whistle is hilarious. He's that guy at the bar who flips out and shakes his fists every time he's mad, but never actually goes through with fighting anyone. He's a paper tiger. Look at the Nashville game: he skates off the ice threatening the Predators goalie and then immediately leaves the game with an injury. And this is one of our leaders???

 

Roy cares more about living large as a pro athlete than he does about winning anything. All I think about now when I see him is the multiple reports that the Sabres were "close" to moving him. They probably were, and the most likely reason he's still on the team is that Darcy was holding out for an extra draft pick or something. That's how we're deciding who the core of our team is? Darcy needed to get that done. Instead, as usual, he waited too long, missed his chance, and now we're stuck with a asset that we'll never get fair value for.

 

Keep Vanek and Pominville. Flush everyone else over the age of 24. The Sabres have a great group of young players/prospects and maybe the new GM and coach can mould them into something.

 

See above. If you flush everyone else over age of 24 then you have a team of rookies that will get destroyed night in and night out. How is that improvement over what we have now? Roy will be dealt, everyone knows it. You won't hear about it specifically until it happens because Ted Black and Regier can't just go on the radio and tell fans that they want to get rid of Roy. Gaustad is a fine player but I wouldn't expect much from him. Until we find someone else who can win faceoffs we need him. I wouldn't lay odds on his contract being renewed again but for now he's a value as a 4th liner.

 

 

Kassian and McNabb are blue chippers who are ready. And nearly every team in the league has one or two guys on the cusp on their roster so there is nothing exceptional about them being here. You can't really call them AHL'ers at this point. They aren't like Finley, Chewie, and Tropp out there. I'm not willing to accept their presence on the ice as an excuse.

 

And how much more time are we supposed to give the likes of Roy, Stafford, Hecht, Goose, and Kaleta to find chemistry and start to click and make things happen? Cheese and rice, they've been playing together since 2005. Whatinthehell do they need another month or two of games for? Is 15 (or whatever) more games really going to suddenly result in these players changing their character? Playing the body? Aggressively pursuing pucks? I doubt it. The occassional instances where they do show it don't last entire games. We get a period of hustle and work and then two periods of wondering if they can hold the lead. And that's assuming the work and hustle resulted in a lead to begin with.

 

It is long past time to make a change among the core. Line two needs to be replaced. That would be a good start.

 

Of the guys you name I think Hecht sticks because he's not a liability. He's a solid player, smart player who should be part of your core. Don't ask him to score 30 goals, ask him to prevent goals from being scored. He's a stabilizer and we need guys like that. The problem is not Hecht, the problem is that we ask Hecht to do something he's not and not use him where he should be. I liked Adam on the top line but he plays better with Kassian, there's no doubt about that and we need that to be line 2 so you have to leave him there.

 

You have to be willing to accept Kassian, Adam, and McNabb's presence on the ice as an excuse. You can 't expect McNabb to play like Shea Weber yet.. he'll make mistakes but his upside is greater than the upside of any other young defenseman except for Myers and that's a MAJOR bonus for the Sabres. The same goes for the other two. There isn't a player on the Sabres who can control the puck along the boards better than Kassian. The one major skill I've noticed from him is his ability to set 3 feet out from the boards with his back to the defender and use one hand to move the puck.. they can't move him. It's a beautiful sight to behold. Now.. I think he needs to finish his checks more but I'm betting his warnings on going over the edge are in his mind. He came into the league as a guy on the watch list and I am sure he's trying to make sure he doesn't stay on it... like Kaleta. After all, we saw in the game against New Jersey how Kaleta was called for tripping on a clean hip check.. that's reputation and it hurts.

 

In the end there are two ways management can go here. You can believe in the coach and his system or you can believe in your players. It sounds to me like they believe in Ruff and therefore they are going to go out and find Ruff the players he needs to win in his system. Yes.. he's been around a LONG time... but you can't argue that at points he's had the players who compete in his system and they were successful. You had workhorses like Drury, etc. who went out and demanded more. In 1999 you had a team of workhorses who were beaten by an illegal goal. People say they overachieved but I think they just found the right system. If you think about those teams they were largely comprised of guys who had the traits we are looking for now. They are the traits most teams are looking for. Hard working, never take a shift off, demand more, attention to detail. Even the super stars who achieve are cut from that cloth. I've never liked Crosby but you can't deny his work ethic and how much he demands from others and himself. We see that with Vanek now as well, and I like it. I was on the side that wanted 4 first rounders for Vanek.. and believe me I still would have taken it but he's turning into someone who is leading by example finally and that's a good thing.

 

Okay.. enough of this.. if I don't go clean the house for our party tonight my wife will show me the door with a lifetime misconduct.

[nfreeman]

I am defending him. The contracts were all signed under his watch but under the "guidance" of non-creative ownership that didn't allow you to bury $5m in salary in other leagues because it impacts the bottom line. We've all heard the rumors about why Connolly was resigned but certainly those contracts were not the best choices.. it's flyer of a chance on a guy if he's NOT injured, which of course is never.

 

I'm not saying I'm ready to launch him based upon 9 months worth of hockey work under new ownership. That's all. Do I like some of the things he's done? No. I'll get back to the other points.

 

[/font]

 

You knock the Leino signing? Do you take the upside of Leino at $4.5m or the known of Derek Roy at $4m? I think the upside of Leino is better than what we already know we have. I do like the Ehrhoff signing, even though I haven't been completely sold on his play as of yet I'm not going to say it's garbage with less than 50% of a season in Buffalo. There are a lot of changes to adapt to coming from the other coast.

 

I started this in another thread but killed it, so I will resurrect this now..

 

Who would I trade? Immediately? Roy, Kaleta, Ennis, Sekera, Gragnani, Pominville. That's it.

 

Sekera and Gragnani are nothing more than forwards.. we have enough of them.

 

Roy - whatever. He's not going to go for much. If you think a forward who dogs it 25% of the time and loses the puck when he has any speed is worth $4m to someone you're nuts.

Kaleta - he's a non-factor on the ice. He might hit some people.. sometime. He's been better on penalty kill and I think someone would take him for that and being a pest, if he's healthy

Ennis - he's not going to last in this league, he's at best a 20 goal scorer and for a 5'6 player with no toughness that's not worth much.

Pominville - he's got value.

 

Why not :

Gaustad - he's about the only faceoff guy we have. He's a 4th line center.. put him there, keep him there.

Stafford - he's on the edge. I'd like to see him carry the puck less and get a decent center to get him the puck, but he's close.

Hecht - he's solid. His contract is up, he might be tradebait at the deadline but not right now. He's a third liner.

Boyes - yea.. who's taking that $4m contract? We're stuck with him unless we find someone desperate. I'll say this... at least he's been putting a body on people.

Ellis - great energy player who's work ethic is an example of what to see.

 

Frankly, I'd make a line with Vanek and Stafford and a center. Keep Leino, Adam, and Kassian as number 2. Go with Gerbe, Ellis, Hecht as three and McCormick, Gaustad and whoever (I guess Boyes) at 4.

 

I just watched Szczechura play tonight in Rochester and you have to love his wheels and quick movement of the puck. I thought he held his own but he's never shown as a top 6 player. Still, I like him better than Roy.

 

The Sabres best bet, at this point, will be either a team who suffers more injuries than us and has a shot at a top playoff spot or the trade deadline where people make stupid deals all the time. I don't see a midseason trade being completely impacting.

 

And these forums hate my Chrome browser.. quirky problems.. ugh.

 

Good post.

 

Since Briere and Drury left, the team's had interchangeable names and faces. They all do the same thing over the years: The defensemen get the yips and give up the puck in their own end and the offense get pushed to the sides and squeezed out. And when they do have a chance, it's almost a surprise and of course they miss. It's been this way since I can remember.

 

Another one. I still kinda feel like the hockey Gods are exacting punishment upon us for screwing up the 2005-06 team so badly. It might require a complete housecleaning to erase the stain.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

LTS, good stuff. I don't agree with it all, but please hang around.

 

I will say that almost any system can work when you have the best goaltender since WWII between the pipes.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Your points on McNabb and Kassian are the perfect description of rookies. Still, does anyone think that those two are going back to Rochester? If they do it will be only until someone can be moved out to make room for them to come back. Given the number of injuries I'm guessing they might not ever have to go back. Still, you will find mistakes like that. Ovechkin makes the most seasoned defensemen look like pylons at times so I'm not surprised it happened to McNabb. Like I said, I did not see the game as I was at the Amerks game. Still, if it was a case of him attempting to stand up Ovechkin at the blue line I will take it because at least one defenseman is trying to stop letting the other team in the zone automatically.

 

Be patient because you can't overhaul your roster on a moments notice. There are 20+ players here and they all count towards the salary cap. You can't just cut them and gain room. You can't just trade them because you need to find someone willing to give up something for them. The trend in the NHL has shifted to farm development and so you don't have teams just giving up prospects for mediocre veterans like the Rangers used to do. We have who we have and some of the players will leave through not having contracts renewed. It's a 3 year plan and we're not through year 1.. patience is all you've got. I look at the bright side. I like how Adam is playing for the most part, I like Kassian, I like McNabb, Vanek is finally showing he's a full time player, we have Myers, Regehr for another year, and Ehrhoff for awhile (his increased fighting is telling me he actually cares if nothing else). We have Gerbe and Ellis who are guys who can set the work ethic level to heights most players don't touch. The locker room will change, there's no doubt but it cannot happen overnight.

 

 

 

 

See above. If you flush everyone else over age of 24 then you have a team of rookies that will get destroyed night in and night out. How is that improvement over what we have now? Roy will be dealt, everyone knows it. You won't hear about it specifically until it happens because Ted Black and Regier can't just go on the radio and tell fans that they want to get rid of Roy. Gaustad is a fine player but I wouldn't expect much from him. Until we find someone else who can win faceoffs we need him. I wouldn't lay odds on his contract being renewed again but for now he's a value as a 4th liner.

 

 

 

 

Of the guys you name I think Hecht sticks because he's not a liability. He's a solid player, smart player who should be part of your core. Don't ask him to score 30 goals, ask him to prevent goals from being scored. He's a stabilizer and we need guys like that. The problem is not Hecht, the problem is that we ask Hecht to do something he's not and not use him where he should be. I liked Adam on the top line but he plays better with Kassian, there's no doubt about that and we need that to be line 2 so you have to leave him there.

 

You have to be willing to accept Kassian, Adam, and McNabb's presence on the ice as an excuse. You can 't expect McNabb to play like Shea Weber yet.. he'll make mistakes but his upside is greater than the upside of any other young defenseman except for Myers and that's a MAJOR bonus for the Sabres. The same goes for the other two. There isn't a player on the Sabres who can control the puck along the boards better than Kassian. The one major skill I've noticed from him is his ability to set 3 feet out from the boards with his back to the defender and use one hand to move the puck.. they can't move him. It's a beautiful sight to behold. Now.. I think he needs to finish his checks more but I'm betting his warnings on going over the edge are in his mind. He came into the league as a guy on the watch list and I am sure he's trying to make sure he doesn't stay on it... like Kaleta. After all, we saw in the game against New Jersey how Kaleta was called for tripping on a clean hip check.. that's reputation and it hurts.

 

In the end there are two ways management can go here. You can believe in the coach and his system or you can believe in your players. It sounds to me like they believe in Ruff and therefore they are going to go out and find Ruff the players he needs to win in his system. Yes.. he's been around a LONG time... but you can't argue that at points he's had the players who compete in his system and they were successful. You had workhorses like Drury, etc. who went out and demanded more. In 1999 you had a team of workhorses who were beaten by an illegal goal. People say they overachieved but I think they just found the right system. If you think about those teams they were largely comprised of guys who had the traits we are looking for now. They are the traits most teams are looking for. Hard working, never take a shift off, demand more, attention to detail. Even the super stars who achieve are cut from that cloth. I've never liked Crosby but you can't deny his work ethic and how much he demands from others and himself. We see that with Vanek now as well, and I like it. I was on the side that wanted 4 first rounders for Vanek.. and believe me I still would have taken it but he's turning into someone who is leading by example finally and that's a good thing.

 

Okay.. enough of this.. if I don't go clean the house for our party tonight my wife will show me the door with a lifetime misconduct.

 

Another great post and a great avatar to go with it, lol......... :beer:

 

I think the players that have to go on this team are Roy and Stafford for sure........Both players that do not give it their all on every shift and most surely under achieve every season......The thing that I wonder about is what we could get for them, that is always gonna be the catch 22.....Every team in the league has seen them play and they surely see the same things that we do......Perhaps the only thing that we can do is play up their skills and the old change of scenery debate.......But I am sure if you could package together Sekera and Roy you could get one pretty good player in return.

[Bullwinkle]

 

 

Kassian and McNabb are blue chippers who are ready. And nearly every team in the league has one or two guys on the cusp on their roster so there is nothing exceptional about them being here. You can't really call them AHL'ers at this point. They aren't like Finley, Chewie, and Tropp out there. I'm not willing to accept their presence on the ice as an excuse.

 

And how much more time are we supposed to give the likes of Roy, Stafford, Hecht, Goose, and Kaleta to find chemistry and start to click and make things happen? Cheese and rice, they've been playing together since 2005. Whatinthehell do they need another month or two of games for? Is 15 (or whatever) more games really going to suddenly result in these players changing their character? Playing the body? Aggressively pursuing pucks? I doubt it. The occassional instances where they do show it don't last entire games. We get a period of hustle and work and then two periods of wondering if they can hold the lead. And that's assuming the work and hustle resulted in a lead to begin with.

 

It is long past time to make a change among the core. Line two needs to be replaced. That would be a good start.

 

Perhaps people forget that at the end of last season this team DID have chemistry and actually were a force on the ice. We were the only team in the Eastern Conference that were out of the playoffs in January that made it in (at Atlanta's expense). So the chemistry of which I speak isn't a pipe dream, it has existed in the past.

 

Question now is, can it happen again? Especially with the new guys. I think TP expected last year's trend to continue in spades with the new additions. It hasn't happened.......yet.

[Marvelo]

Good post. Another one. I still kinda feel like the hockey Gods are exacting punishment upon us for screwing up the 2005-06 team so badly. It might require a complete housecleaning to erase the stain.

 

Funny, I feel the hockey gods are exacting punishment upon us because our role in the league is really supposed to be "the poor cousins" but now that we're nouveau riche, we're trying to puff ourselves up with Pegula's blood money. (hydrofracking)

[sabresnutinphoenix]

I think we can assume Terry Pegula wants to win based on the payroll...No one can question the commitment....But, one can question the wisdom -

 

1. Overpaying Leino - it probably would have better not to sign anyone and have the space under the salary cap for deals

2. Not finding a Center worth their salt

3. Re-thinking the Darcy-Lindy experiment...

[nfreeman]

Your points on McNabb and Kassian are the perfect description of rookies. Still, does anyone think that those two are going back to Rochester? If they do it will be only until someone can be moved out to make room for them to come back. Given the number of injuries I'm guessing they might not ever have to go back. Still, you will find mistakes like that. Ovechkin makes the most seasoned defensemen look like pylons at times so I'm not surprised it happened to McNabb. Like I said, I did not see the game as I was at the Amerks game. Still, if it was a case of him attempting to stand up Ovechkin at the blue line I will take it because at least one defenseman is trying to stop letting the other team in the zone automatically.

 

Be patient because you can't overhaul your roster on a moments notice. There are 20+ players here and they all count towards the salary cap. You can't just cut them and gain room. You can't just trade them because you need to find someone willing to give up something for them. The trend in the NHL has shifted to farm development and so you don't have teams just giving up prospects for mediocre veterans like the Rangers used to do. We have who we have and some of the players will leave through not having contracts renewed. It's a 3 year plan and we're not through year 1.. patience is all you've got. I look at the bright side. I like how Adam is playing for the most part, I like Kassian, I like McNabb, Vanek is finally showing he's a full time player, we have Myers, Regehr for another year, and Ehrhoff for awhile (his increased fighting is telling me he actually cares if nothing else). We have Gerbe and Ellis who are guys who can set the work ethic level to heights most players don't touch. The locker room will change, there's no doubt but it cannot happen overnight.

 

 

See above. If you flush everyone else over age of 24 then you have a team of rookies that will get destroyed night in and night out. How is that improvement over what we have now? Roy will be dealt, everyone knows it. You won't hear about it specifically until it happens because Ted Black and Regier can't just go on the radio and tell fans that they want to get rid of Roy. Gaustad is a fine player but I wouldn't expect much from him. Until we find someone else who can win faceoffs we need him. I wouldn't lay odds on his contract being renewed again but for now he's a value as a 4th liner.

 

Of the guys you name I think Hecht sticks because he's not a liability. He's a solid player, smart player who should be part of your core. Don't ask him to score 30 goals, ask him to prevent goals from being scored. He's a stabilizer and we need guys like that. The problem is not Hecht, the problem is that we ask Hecht to do something he's not and not use him where he should be. I liked Adam on the top line but he plays better with Kassian, there's no doubt about that and we need that to be line 2 so you have to leave him there.

 

You have to be willing to accept Kassian, Adam, and McNabb's presence on the ice as an excuse. You can 't expect McNabb to play like Shea Weber yet.. he'll make mistakes but his upside is greater than the upside of any other young defenseman except for Myers and that's a MAJOR bonus for the Sabres. The same goes for the other two. There isn't a player on the Sabres who can control the puck along the boards better than Kassian. The one major skill I've noticed from him is his ability to set 3 feet out from the boards with his back to the defender and use one hand to move the puck.. they can't move him. It's a beautiful sight to behold. Now.. I think he needs to finish his checks more but I'm betting his warnings on going over the edge are in his mind. He came into the league as a guy on the watch list and I am sure he's trying to make sure he doesn't stay on it... like Kaleta. After all, we saw in the game against New Jersey how Kaleta was called for tripping on a clean hip check.. that's reputation and it hurts.

 

In the end there are two ways management can go here. You can believe in the coach and his system or you can believe in your players. It sounds to me like they believe in Ruff and therefore they are going to go out and find Ruff the players he needs to win in his system. Yes.. he's been around a LONG time... but you can't argue that at points he's had the players who compete in his system and they were successful. You had workhorses like Drury, etc. who went out and demanded more. In 1999 you had a team of workhorses who were beaten by an illegal goal. People say they overachieved but I think they just found the right system. If you think about those teams they were largely comprised of guys who had the traits we are looking for now. They are the traits most teams are looking for. Hard working, never take a shift off, demand more, attention to detail. Even the super stars who achieve are cut from that cloth. I've never liked Crosby but you can't deny his work ethic and how much he demands from others and himself. We see that with Vanek now as well, and I like it. I was on the side that wanted 4 first rounders for Vanek.. and believe me I still would have taken it but he's turning into someone who is leading by example finally and that's a good thing.

 

Okay.. enough of this.. if I don't go clean the house for our party tonight my wife will show me the door with a lifetime misconduct.

 

More good stuff. Thanks for the breakdown and the positivity. I'm an optimist but before reading your last few posts was beginning to fall into despair.

 

The McNabb miss wasn't quite an attempt to stand OV up at the blueline, as he wasn't close enough to do so, but it was an attempt to crush him into the boards, which OV eluded with a good burst of speed. Still I think your point holds (and it would have been a huge hit if it had connected).

 

Another great post and a great avatar to go with it, lol......... :beer:

 

If only the Sabres would get an infusion of new blood like we on this board seem to have gotten...

[OverPowerYou]

Injuries

[HopefulFuture]

Perhaps people forget that at the end of last season this team DID have chemistry and actually were a force on the ice. We were the only team in the Eastern Conference that were out of the playoffs in January that made it in (at Atlanta's expense). So the chemistry of which I speak isn't a pipe dream, it has existed in the past.

 

Question now is, can it happen again? Especially with the new guys. I think TP expected last year's trend to continue in spades with the new additions. It hasn't happened.......yet.

 

The chemistry shown for just under a half of a season last year was not chemistry at all.

Some players on the team went on heaters for a half of season, including Vanek, Goose, Ennis and yes, even Connolly netted us some points in that second half.

The defense played much better and goaltending was just enough above average to help us out.

 

There never was any consistent chemistry on this team in the second half of last season, individual players showed up.

[Bullwinkle]

 

 

The chemistry shown for just under a half of a season last year was not chemistry at all.

Some players on the team went on heaters for a half of season, including Vanek, Goose, Ennis and yes, even Connolly netted us some points in that second half.

The defense played much better and goaltending was just enough above average to help us out.

 

There never was any consistent chemistry on this team in the second half of last season, individual players showed up.

 

I totally disagree. Individual performances do not in-and-of themselves do anything for the team. When everyone is playing at a heightened level - even Tim Connolly - that's called chemistry. The team playing together as a team and certain individuals shone through because of that, not the other way around.

[spndnchz]

We had good goaltending. Nights where other teams only scored one or two, now it's three or four or five.

 

We had goalscorers. Plural. Now we've got three guys scoring a third of the goals. We had a team that could get four goals when needed. Now we fight to get more than one.

 

Awesome combo.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

We had good goaltending. Nights where other teams only scored one or two, now it's three or four or five.

 

We had goalscorers. Plural. Now we've got three guys scoring a third of the goals. We had a team that could get four goals when needed. Now we fight to get more than one.

 

Awesome combo.

 

Plus we saw close to 40% backup goalies.....people tend to forget that little nugget.

[LTS]

First, thanks for the kind words on my content. I've been off and on reading here for awhile but I decided I would jump in. Some of the content was really turning me off, it was childish and wouldn't accomplish much. Almost stopped checking, well okay, I did but not willfully I was just really busy. OKay.. enough of that.

 

I think the push season isn't going to be replicated. The spirit of this team is broken in my opinion. You need to want to be there and want to play. When you have a lot of mental errors and certain players weak play stands out you begin to suspect a chemistry issue. I think it's there but you aren't going to hear about it in the public. The egos in hockey are not like football, the teams are too small to call a teammate out in the media.

 

If there are changes to be made at the higher levels you won't hear Ted Black or Terry Pegula tell you, they will just do it. They can't say anything else, it's really not possible. If you say, "Hey, we're looking to fire Lindy" then you might as well just fire him.

 

I'll stand by who I think needs to go right now.. wave 1 and I leave it at Sekera, Roy, Gragnani, and Ennis. I like Ennis, I just don't think he's going to last in this league. He's beginning to show some #61 in him and I don 't like that. Now, it's a LITTLE bit and hopefully that trend reverses but this season he's been nowhere near as effective going back and forth on the boards (granted he's not had much of a season yet!).

 

The Sabres need two things.. a playmaking center, and a veteran with proven character for hard work AND more importantly winning. The Sabres still lack that in the dressing room. That's the guy no one is going to argue with, the guy who will speak behind closed doors and will make players 10 years his younger look like Squirts from a work ethic standpoint. He's unquestionable. Who is he? Damned if I know, but we should go find him. Grier was that last year, he was unquestionable... not a proven winner, but it was better than what we have this year as far as I can see.

[Weave]

 

I'll stand by who I think needs to go right now.. wave 1 and I leave it at Sekera, Roy, Gragnani, and Ennis. I like Ennis, I just don't think he's going to last in this league. He's beginning to show some #61 in him and I don 't like that. Now, it's a LITTLE bit and hopefully that trend reverses but this season he's been nowhere near as effective going back and forth on the boards (granted he's not had much of a season yet!).

 

You mentioned why Ennis. I'm curious as to your reasons for the other three. I don't necessarily disagree with any of them, just wondering what your rationale is.

[nfreeman]

First, thanks for the kind words on my content. I've been off and on reading here for awhile but I decided I would jump in. Some of the content was really turning me off, it was childish and wouldn't accomplish much. Almost stopped checking, well okay, I did but not willfully I was just really busy. OKay.. enough of that.

 

I think the push season isn't going to be replicated. The spirit of this team is broken in my opinion. You need to want to be there and want to play. When you have a lot of mental errors and certain players weak play stands out you begin to suspect a chemistry issue. I think it's there but you aren't going to hear about it in the public. The egos in hockey are not like football, the teams are too small to call a teammate out in the media.

 

If there are changes to be made at the higher levels you won't hear Ted Black or Terry Pegula tell you, they will just do it. They can't say anything else, it's really not possible. If you say, "Hey, we're looking to fire Lindy" then you might as well just fire him.

 

I'll stand by who I think needs to go right now.. wave 1 and I leave it at Sekera, Roy, Gragnani, and Ennis. I like Ennis, I just don't think he's going to last in this league. He's beginning to show some #61 in him and I don 't like that. Now, it's a LITTLE bit and hopefully that trend reverses but this season he's been nowhere near as effective going back and forth on the boards (granted he's not had much of a season yet!).

 

The Sabres need two things.. a playmaking center, and a veteran with proven character for hard work AND more importantly winning. The Sabres still lack that in the dressing room. That's the guy no one is going to argue with, the guy who will speak behind closed doors and will make players 10 years his younger look like Squirts from a work ethic standpoint. He's unquestionable. Who is he? Damned if I know, but we should go find him. Grier was that last year, he was unquestionable... not a proven winner, but it was better than what we have this year as far as I can see.

 

I'm fine with trading Sekera if it brings back a reasonable yield, but I wouldn't want to just dump him. I think he has a really high upside. He also doesn't strike me as a locker room problem. And overall while it seems like they have too many defensemen, it also has again become clear that there really is no such thing.

 

I feel pretty much the same way about Ennis -- high upside, OK with trading him, but don't want to just dump him. I also don't think the Sabres can have too many smurfs and prefer Gerbe to Ennis. But I prefer both of them to Roy, and I think the Sabres can have 2 smurfs (but not 3).

 

I completely agree with the bolded part, and would just add that they need to be top 6 forwards. Those 2 players are the ones that prior ownership pissed away on Black Sunday. This franchise is still paying the price. If DR can't see that and can't change it, then it's time to find someone who can.

[spndnchz]

 

 

I'm fine with trading Sekera if it brings back a reasonable yield, but I wouldn't want to just dump him. I think he has a really high upside. He also doesn't strike me as a locker room problem. And overall while it seems like they have too many defensemen, it also has again become clear that there really is no such thing.

 

I feel pretty much the same way about Ennis -- high upside, OK with trading him, but don't want to just dump him. I also don't think the Sabres can have too many smurfs and prefer Gerbe to Ennis. But I prefer both of them to Roy, and I think the Sabres can have 2 smurfs (but not 3).

 

I completely agree with the bolded part, and would just add that they need to be top 6 forwards. Those 2 players are the ones that prior ownership pissed away on Black Sunday. This franchise is still paying the price. If DR can't see that and can't change it, then it's time to find someone who can.

 

OMG a voice of reason.

[RazielSabre]

I'm fine with trading Sekera if it brings back a reasonable yield, but I wouldn't want to just dump him. I think he has a really high upside. He also doesn't strike me as a locker room problem. And overall while it seems like they have too many defensemen, it also has again become clear that there really is no such thing.

 

I feel pretty much the same way about Ennis -- high upside, OK with trading him, but don't want to just dump him. I also don't think the Sabres can have too many smurfs and prefer Gerbe to Ennis. But I prefer both of them to Roy, and I think the Sabres can have 2 smurfs (but not 3).

 

I completely agree with the bolded part, and would just add that they need to be top 6 forwards. Those 2 players are the ones that prior ownership pissed away on Black Sunday. This franchise is still paying the price. If DR can't see that and can't change it, then it's time to find someone who can.

 

Nice post. I'd prefer to keep Gerbe over Ennis if it came to it though. I think Roy has a place in our team at the minute (his one of only a few players capable of putting up 70 points every season, like it or not we will miss that unless we replace it).

 

I completely agree with the last paragraph, wasn't Recchi in a similar role with the Bruins last year? We have Regehr at the back end but maybe if we can find someone for Roy's RW like Doan we have a chance.

 

Out of interest I'd keep Gausted all the way, he's consistently in the top 5 for faceoff wins and plays a solid role as a 3rd/4th line center.

[FolignosJock]

Nice post. I'd prefer to keep Gerbe over Ennis if it came to it though. I think Roy has a place in our team at the minute (his one of only a few players capable of putting up 70 points every season, like it or not we will miss that unless we replace it).

 

I completely agree with the last paragraph, wasn't Recchi in a similar role with the Bruins last year? We have Regehr at the back end but maybe if we can find someone for Roy's RW like Doan we have a chance.

 

Out of interest I'd keep Gausted all the way, he's consistently in the top 5 for faceoff wins and plays a solid role as a 3rd/4th line center.

 

What is the limit to what you would pay him though??? I think the price is going to be too high, I think its a little too high now.

 

 

 

 

Also a question to all the posters out there.... How lucky do you think that management got after the lockout. They had a team that didnt look good on paper based on the old NHL. Then BOOM it all comes together perfectly to work in the new NHL. How much was luck? How much was front office genius? How much was lindy coaching into that team?

[RazielSabre]

What is the limit to what you would pay him though??? I think the price is going to be too high, I think its a little too high now.

 

 

 

 

Also a question to all the posters out there.... How lucky do you think that management got after the lockout. They had a team that didnt look good on paper based on the old NHL. Then BOOM it all comes together perfectly to work in the new NHL. How much was luck? How much was front office genius? How much was lindy coaching into that team?

 

What's he on at the moment? I'd say anything more than $2.5Mill is really pushing it. As I say his one of the best faceoff men in the league, happy to play any minutes and with anyone. Great role model and also the main guy to challenge the team (and himself) after the Miller-Lucic incident. Very classy player. Also the only player to have made Stafford look good (a couple of times I've seen Gausted stay late after a shift, dig the puck out after dumping it in and pass to Stafford for a chance, once or twice but still made me smile). Meh I like him, despite him having little to no offensive skill.

 

I think how well the front office did post-lockout is the only reason they have a job. I think it was more by design than luck. Ruff also did a great job coaching the team.