What has happened to this franchise?

[nfreeman]

Geez, I guess I missed something.

 

 

I started looking to the future about a month ago, what I've seen from this teams supposed "core" has been absolutely atrocious.

 

If this team wins that elusive cup anytime soon, the core isn't going to be composed of Roy, Stafford, Pominville, Gaustad and Vanek.

 

What i CAN see, is a seasoned core group composed of guys like Adam, Kassian, Gerbe, Myers, McNabb, Foligno, and hopefully Armia. I do think Vanek will remain a sabre, and could be a veteran presence on that team. We need players who have intensity, drive, and that desire to win. There is huge potential for our farm system. We can bring in skill guys to fill scoring holes, but what our core needs is heart and drive before all else. This group coming up seems to have that. The sooner they push out the old guard the better IMO.

 

Good post.

[darksabre]

 

wanna know the best part about this board? i keep being told I've said stuff that I haven't said ever. Like everything in the above post for instance. From the "millenials think in binary" crap right down to the "lesser generations" drivel.

 

You definitely went out of your way to essentially tell everyone here that they don't understand you because you're smarter than them because your brain is special. You're not going to live it down if you keep up with your current act.

[LGR4GM]

Drop it for your own sake dude.

sorry. and I will.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

wanna know the best part about this board? i keep being told I've said stuff that I haven't said ever. Like everything in the above post for instance. From the "millenials think in binary" crap right down to the "lesser generations" drivel.

 

Not trying to grind your gears or anything, but i thought the Getzalf comment was in reference to a post where Roy was statistically compared to Getzlaf in terms of numbers and production on a PPG metric, as well as a few others.

 

Now i THOUGHT that post was made by you, i could be wrong obviously, but i was under the impression that was you and that's why the above Getzlaf comment was made. If I'm mistaken i certainly apologize.

 

I have no problem with flip flopping stances, in my opinion its indicative of open mindedness, which seems to be lost on many nowadays. I often agree and enjoy your posts liger, but do agree that you can come off a little overly... enthusiastic at times. You certainly add to this board though.

[LGR4GM]

Not trying to grind your gears or anything, but i thought the Getzalf comment was in reference to a post where Roy was statistically compared to Getzlaf in terms of numbers and production on a PPG metric, as well as a few others.

 

Now i THOUGHT that post was made by you, i could be wrong obviously, but i was under the impression that was you and that's why the above Getzlaf comment was made. If I'm mistaken i certainly apologize.

 

I have no problem with flip flopping stances, in my opinion its indicative of open mindedness, which seems to be lost on many nowadays. I often agree and enjoy your posts liger, but do agree that you can come off a little overly... enthusiastic at times. You certainly add to this board though.

Roy and Getzlaf are statistically comparable yes. I made that post and I stick by that. Getzlaf is better. This year they are about the same. It all goes back to someone simply asking what would it take to trade for Getzlaf, that original idea was not mine. Getzlaf has never been on my personal "wish he was in a sabres jersey" list.

[RazielSabre]

My limit for Gaustad is $1.5MM x 2 years. I think Limey is well overstating his value. I think he's a pretty good 4th line center who can be the #3 center in a pinch but that's it. He has zero offensive skill. And as for the intangibles -- while I liked that part of his game last year, he lost any claim to those qualities with his starring role in the Lucic-Miller debacle. Moreover, I don't see how ANY forward on the team (other than Gerbe) can be credited with any leadership or other intangible quality after this pathetic half-season's performance.

 

A multi-million-dollar, multi-year contract that includes a raise over current compensation needs to be a reward for exceptional performance. When it's given out to whichever mediocre forward has an expiring contract, the incentives get screwed up, resulting in the atrocious CF we're now seeing.

 

As for whether management was "lucky" post-lockout: I don't think so. I think DR did a terrific job putting together a great team on the cheap, and Lindy did a terrific job coaching them. TG and LQ then made a series of bad decisions (first Grier and Dumont, then Briere and Drury, then Soupy, giving extensions to Roy, TC and Max, etc.), which flowed into DR making a series of bad decisions (overpaying for Pommer and Hecht, not revamping the top 6, not bringing in any blood-and-guts leaders at forward), which have all combined to lead this team to its current residence in poopyville.

 

 

 

I guess the point of dumping someone is the addition-by-subtraction theory, which operated beautifully last year with Roy.

 

Ok maybe that is a bit much but I don't think it's fair blaming him for the Lucic situation considering he admitted his fault and went straight for him next time, unlike Mccormick and even Kaleta (can't remember if Kaleta was actually playing to be honest). He just seems to play a great grinding game and I think his faceoff game is extremely useful. I think my point is for the value we won't find many who do his job better. imho.

[darksabre]

 

 

Not trying to grind your gears or anything, but i thought the Getzalf comment was in reference to a post where Roy was statistically compared to Getzlaf in terms of numbers and production on a PPG metric, as well as a few others.

 

Now i THOUGHT that post was made by you, i could be wrong obviously, but i was under the impression that was you and that's why the above Getzlaf comment was made. If I'm mistaken i certainly apologize.

 

I have no problem with flip flopping stances, in my opinion its indicative of open mindedness, which seems to be lost on many nowadays. I often agree and enjoy your posts liger, but do agree that you can come off a little overly... enthusiastic at times. You certainly add to this board though.

 

The problem is that he posts so much and so often that he forgets what he's said in the past. This isn't a forum that embraces that. We read things and we remember them. If you don't keep track of what you've said here, you end up with situations like this. There are a lot of elephant brains on this board.

[LGR4GM]

The problem is that he posts so much and so often that he forgets what he's said in the past. This isn't a forum that embraces that. We read things and we remember them. If you don't keep track of what you've said here, you end up with situations like this. There are a lot of elephant brains on this board.

the actual problem is I remember what I said and exactly what I meant by it. unfortunately no one else really seems to.

 

Examples: i am credited with starting the Stamkos, Malkin, and Getzlaf trade ideas. All three I merely commented on in response to what someone else asked (what would it take to get one of these) Trade talk is outlawed.

[BuffaloSoldier2010]

Roy and Getzlaf are statistically comparable yes. I made that post and I stick by that. Getzlaf is better. This year they are about the same. It all goes back to someone simply asking what would it take to trade for Getzlaf, that original idea was not mine. Getzlaf has never been on my personal "wish he was in a sabres jersey" list.

 

I hear ya bud, and I'm not saying you were at fault for that post, just pointing out that may be the reason for the recent, seemingly random Getzlaf post.

 

the actual problem is I remember what I said and exactly what I meant by it. unfortunately no one else really seems to.

 

Examples: i am credited with starting the Stamkos, Malkin, and Getzlaf trade ideas. All three I merely commented on in response to what someone else asked (what would it take to get one of these) Trade talk is outlawed.

 

I totally started that stamkos thread :rolleyes:

 

My bad everyone. I like to think my posts and threads have improved significantly since I joined about this time last year.

[LGR4GM]

I hear ya bud, and I'm not saying you were at fault for that post, just pointing out that may be the reason for the recent, seemingly random Getzlaf post.

 

 

 

I totally started that stamkos thread :rolleyes:

 

My bad everyone. I like to think my posts and threads have improved significantly since I joined about this time last year.

Its fine it was a good idea to entertain but certain ppl freaked out because we were discussing it. I've never heard of a topic so dangerous you can't even discuss it.

[North Buffalo]

I would love to see Craig Ramsey back as head coach or Schoenfeld to light a fire under these guys back sides. That being said the Sabres biggest problem is that they were not able to go and get or draft for a legitimate #1 Center. If I were Darcy, I would be working on dumping as many guys as necessary to get enough picks and assets that would allow me to draft in the top 2 next year, if not trading for a number one this year is still out of the question... which it sounds like is the case. Start with Stafford and Roy and Boyes, consider Leino and Hecht and throw in a D... Grags and Sekera and maybe put Adam out there since he seems to be another softee with talent.

 

The short sightedness of the Regier and Ruff draft crowd is clear and Leino was such a long shot, the Sabres would have been better moving up the board. Get rid of Regier and his mumbo jumbo talk to other GMs. I am not adverse to giving Ruff another year or till the end of the year. But Ramsey's forchecking style would better fit this game and the way it is enjoyable to me.

[darksabre]

 

the actual problem is I remember what I said and exactly what I meant by it. unfortunately no one else really seems to.

 

Examples: i am credited with starting the Stamkos, Malkin, and Getzlaf trade ideas. All three I merely commented on in response to what someone else asked (what would it take to get one of these) Trade talk is outlawed.

 

If you remember what you said, then try to act like it. Throwing hissy fits and then having to backpeddal just continues to knock you down. I know Chz wants to keep these discussions from happening through being a reasonable moderator, but I can't get on board with that. I want you to continue to show us who you are, because it's as satisfying as watching Regier hang himself. Other posters like you who used to actually contribute we're run out of here for less. I have no desire to see censorship save your hide. Revisionist history won't help you or this forum grow.

[dEnnis the Menace]

I would love to see Craig Ramsey back as head coach or Schoenfeld to light a fire under these guys back sides. That being said the Sabres biggest problem is that they were not able to go and get or draft for a legitimate #1 Center. If I were Darcy, I would be working on dumping as many guys as necessary to get enough picks and assets that would allow me to draft in the top 2 next year, if not trading for a number one this year is still out of the question... which it sounds like is the case. Start with Stafford and Roy and Boyes, consider Leino and Hecht and throw in a D... Grags and Sekera and maybe put Adam out there since he seems to be another softee with talent.

 

The short sightedness of the Regier and Ruff draft crowd is clear and Leino was such a long shot, the Sabres would have been better moving up the board. Get rid of Regier and his mumbo jumbo talk to other GMs. I am not adverse to giving Ruff another year or till the end of the year. But Ramsey's forchecking style would better fit this game and the way it is enjoyable to me.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I am of the opinion that trying to dump Leino the same year you sign him to a lucrative contract is not going to be very enticing to other teams. But hey, that's just me. Stafford on the other hand...different story.

[LGR4GM]

If you remember what you said, then try to act like it. Throwing hissy fits and then having to backpeddal just continues to knock you down. I know Chz wants to keep these discussions from happening through being a reasonable moderator, but I can't get on board with that. I want you to continue to show us who you are, because it's as satisfying as watching Regier hang himself. Other posters like you who used to actually contribute we're run out of here for less. I have no desire to see censorship save your hide. Revisionist history won't help you or this forum grow.

can you explain this more, I am honestly not following what you are saying. Perhaps you should private message me so I don't post more or derail this thread.

[sabres1970]

Anyone hear what Rob Ray said today? Blaming Bettman for tampering with the 99 finals. Honestly, I wouldn't doubt it.

[dEnnis the Menace]

Anyone hear what Rob Ray said today? Blaming Bettman for tampering with the 99 finals. Honestly, I wouldn't doubt it.

 

:huh: How so? Please explain what he said!

[RazielSabre]

If you remember what you said, then try to act like it. Throwing hissy fits and then having to backpeddal just continues to knock you down. I know Chz wants to keep these discussions from happening through being a reasonable moderator, but I can't get on board with that. I want you to continue to show us who you are, because it's as satisfying as watching Regier hang himself. Other posters like you who used to actually contribute we're run out of here for less. I have no desire to see censorship save your hide. Revisionist history won't help you or this forum grow.

I'm not commenting on whatever the hell you all are still arguing over just making a comment:

 

Its the 5 threads discussing EXACTLY the same thing that kill this forum. We have so few unique threads why would anyone join? Just food for thought :)

[North Buffalo]

Maybe it's just me, but I am of the opinion that trying to dump Leino the same year you sign him to a lucrative contract is not going to be very enticing to other teams. But hey, that's just me. Stafford on the other hand...different story.

I agree, I was more thinking of using him as trade bait. But Leino isn't the real problem, not having a number one center is and the weird shuffle on Defense along with Ruff sticking by Grags and his ill advised passes.

[sabres1970]

:huh: How so? Please explain what he said!

He was just responding to the whole Winter Classic reffing situation and he said that in game 2 of the 99 series which I believe they lost in OT, Ray saw Bettman conferring with the line judge and he seemed to be giving him some sort of order. Whether he was or not, Ray's point was that Bettman should not have been talking to a referee during the game anyway.

 

 

Fishy...

[RazielSabre]

I agree, I was more thinking of using him as trade bait. But Leino isn't the real problem, not having a number one center is and the weird shuffle on Defense along with Ruff sticking by Grags and his ill advised passes.

Once Grags picks his time he will be quite something though, and it will happen. If there's something to be said for Lindy is that he can get anyone to play defense.

[LGR4GM]

I agree, I was more thinking of using him as trade bait. But Leino isn't the real problem, not having a number one center is and the weird shuffle on Defense along with Ruff sticking by Grags and his ill advised passes.

Leino did seem to respond well to centering Kassian and Adam. When he is healthy again it would be smart to put those 3 back together and see how it goes for a couple of weeks. Didn't he have 4pts in 3 games while centering those two before he was injured?

[dEnnis the Menace]

He was just responding to the whole Winter Classic reffing situation and he said that in game 2 of the 99 series which I believe they lost in OT, Ray saw Bettman conferring with the line judge and he seemed to be giving him some sort of order. Whether he was or not, Ray's point was that Bettman should not have been talking to a referee during the game anyway.

 

 

Fishy...

 

Gotcha! I love listening to the conspiracy theories that some people have about reffing during high profile games, but I don't buy into many of them. There are some that i am biased against (i.e. I believe a lot of conspiracies re: the '99 cup run, for obvious reasons of making myself feel better). Otherwise, some of them are just ridiculous.

 

I agree, I was more thinking of using him as trade bait. But Leino isn't the real problem, not having a number one center is and the weird shuffle on Defense along with Ruff sticking by Grags and his ill advised passes.

 

I don't agree with using him as trade bait, yet. He did start to heat up with Kass and Adam. I do agree with the rest of what you're saying though.

 

Leino did seem to respond well to centering Kassian and Adam. When he is healthy again it would be smart to put those 3 back together and see how it goes for a couple of weeks. Didn't he have 4pts in 3 games while centering those two before he was injured?

 

5 in 7 but hey, who's counting

[RazielSabre]

Leino did seem to respond well to centering Kassian and Adam. When he is healthy again it would be smart to put those 3 back together and see how it goes for a couple of weeks. Didn't he have 4pts in 3 games while centering those two before he was injured?

 

He did seem to finally find his feet between them. Also consider this, before he spent most of his time with Roy and Stafford who can't score with an open net (and they've had plenty of them). While his partly to blame how much of his poor performance can we blame on bebop and rocksteady?

[sabres1970]

Also, I don't ever believe a word Eklund says on hockeybuzz but he says we're in on Ales Hemsky. There's no way I'd be posting that if the Sabres weren't in desperate need of a shakeup.

 

You may commence your verbal attack on me now...

[hockeyhound]

Happy New Year.

 

What happened???

 

I am sure many people have considered that Lindy Ruff system was conceived during the lean years when money was scarce, which ultimately influenced the pool of talent the sabres could pick from.

 

Remember how they picked up Danny Brier from the Coyotes in exchange for Chris Gratton and a couple of draft picks? I sure the Sabres would make a trade like that a 100 times over if they could.

 

I Also considered a few things lately after watching several past games on NHL Network.

 

After watching several games, I began too realize that the Sabres had a lot of 2nd thru 4th line players for a good number of years.

 

It seemed like Lindy made it work with a bunch of grinders, who sometimes showed flashes of talent.

 

I thought about some of the players that were let go; Adam Mair, Mike Grier, JP Dumont, Danny Briere, Daniel Pallie, Taylor Pyatt, Dmitri Kalinin, Ales Kotalik, Maxim Afinogenov, Andrew Peters, Chris Thorburn, Chris Drury...

 

Maybe it would be easier to just name the only players that are hold overs from those days.

 

After the 2005 - 2006 season, I felt like it was time for a change; system, players, etc.

 

The system worked with those types of players; however, now that they are all gone, can you keep on pushing the same system, or do you evolve?

 

How much has Lindy evolved as a coach?

 

Is he trying to recapture the glory years by implementing the same system, or is he right in the middle of reinventing a new team system?

 

Look how things turned out for the Capitals when they started tooling with their system.

 

We all knew change was coming, and change rarely is a simple procedure.

 

I am sure they will turn it around in the next few months; there is a lot of pride in that room, and I am sure they are sick of being embarrassed.

 

Anyone hear what Rob Ray said today? Blaming Bettman for tampering with the 99 finals. Honestly, I wouldn't doubt it.

 

I always felt like the T.V. Networks, and advertisers had a lot to do with the Dallas game.

 

I can only imagine the Millions of dollars going down the drain because people were not watching that series.