carpandean Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 If last year becomes the norm, Stafford will be underpriced; if he reverts back, then he will be overpriced. Chances are that he'll be somewhere in between. Which isn't good enough. Really? Because Horton has been somewhere between those two extremes in the first four years of his current contract ((27, 22, 20, 26 in the four seasons since signing.) Horton is not a consistent 30 goal scorer; he's a consistent 25 (+/- a few) scorer, which is in between; not halfway in between, but I didn't say that. Looking at his first 6 full seasons in the NHL Horton put up 28,31,27,22,20 and 26 goals. He is consistently above 50 points a year. Compare that to Stafford's first four full seasons. Until this season, Horton's worst year was as good as Stafford's best year. A year ago Stafford was a player coming off a 14 goal season and a benching in the playoffs. Stafford had a great comeback year this year. This one year is not worth $16 mil. If another team would have been willing to pay Stafford what the Sabres ended up paying him? They should have moved him. Sorry for the late response - actually had to do real work - but I wanted to clear something up. You missed the point of my post. I said that he will likely be somewhere between where he was (maybe 15-20G/season) and what he was this year (30+ G/season), to which you said "not good enough." My point is that Horton has been between those two extremes during all four seasons of his $4M/yr contract that you think is a good value. So, you can't make a blanket statement that if Drew is between those two extremes during his $4M/yr, then it won't be good enough. I was not comparing what Drew has done over his career with Horton - in fact, I said that you are right that Nathan has shown more - but rather was simply pointing out that if Horton can be a good value at $4M/yr without putting up more than 27G (I know he did in his second year, but we're talking about his current contract being a better value than Drew's new one), then Drew has to be able to be a good value even if he doesn't put up 30+ every year. Note: I'm not saying that if he is in between, then he is definitely a good value. If he puts up 20-23 each year, then he definitely will be overpriced. I'm simply saying that in between does not necessarily mean bad value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 So if we can get back to the original topic for a minute... Nobody expects Drury to be what he was. But to compare him to either Connolly or Niedermayer is just wrong. The guy basically missed last year. Maybe he is breaking down. But have we forgotten (a) how durable he was in his first dozen seasons; (b) how hard he worked just to get back; and © that upon getting back, all he did was score the goal that put the Rangers in the playoffs? He has more playoff game-winners than ANY, that's ANY, active player and is fifth all-time. Three of the guys ahead of him are named Gretzky, Hull and Sakic. (Claude Lemieux is the fourth). He has more than Jagr, Mario, Modano, Forsberg and Lafleur, just to name a few. And who scored the goal to beat Canada in the Olympics just two years ago? That's right: who else? In New York he was sandbagged by Renney and Torts, used poorly for a good part of his time there, in contrast to how Lindy had him do pretty much everything. (And while we're on the subject, you stay classy, Torts. Cut the guy if you have to, but why put his knee condition out there...if, in fact, it's even true?) Chris will never say it publicly, or even privately, but I doubt he has much respect for the guy. I get it, he isn't what he used to be. But let's not minimize what he meant to this club or his contributions to the game. He may decide he's done. I wouldn't blame him. He has a Cup, he has an Olympic medal, and he has three kids and a life after hockey waiting for him (check out the Colony Grill in Fairfield...better yet, go there and have a hot oil pie or two). But if the fire still burns for him, any team would be stupid not to take a cheap flier. Particularly the Sabres, whose coach and GM still remember what he brought to their team both on and off the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 So if we can get back to the original topic for a minute... :thumbdown: j/k ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 :thumbsup: It's all opinion and perception. I don't come on here to get unanimous agreement. No mental excersize in that. :thumbsup: excellent, so lets go back to the drury discussion as we are a day away from him being bought out, what do you think Weave? Is he worth 1.25mil to play on our 4th line or is he washed up? I have personally swayed back n forth on the issue but think there may be some value in him. Not a lot but some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braedon Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 In New York he was sandbagged by Renney and Torts, used poorly for a good part of his time there, in contrast to how Lindy had him do pretty much everything. (And while we're on the subject, you stay classy, Torts. Cut the guy if you have to, but why put his knee condition out there...if, in fact, it's even true?) Chris will never say it publicly, or even privately, but I doubt he has much respect for the guy. I get it, he isn't what he used to be. But let's not minimize what he meant to this club or his contributions to the game. He may decide he's done. I wouldn't blame him. He has a Cup, he has an Olympic medal, and he has three kids and a life after hockey waiting for him (check out the Colony Grill in Fairfield...better yet, go there and have a hot oil pie or two). But if the fire still burns for him, any team would be stupid not to take a cheap flier. Particularly the Sabres, whose coach and GM still remember what he brought to their team both on and off the ice. His ice time was a lot more for his first 2 years in NY than it was here. He was used plenty. I certainly don't discount what he did for us, but I also don't let that cloud my perception of his potential contribution moving forward. Leadership wouldn't change, but since he's been on the wrong side of the production trend and injury-stricken, there's a good chance he'd be more liability than asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Some people I respect have made a move. It's time to go. Be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 :thumbsup: excellent, so lets go back to the drury discussion as we are a day away from him being bought out, what do you think Weave? Is he worth 1.25mil to play on our 4th line or is he washed up? I have personally swayed back n forth on the issue but think there may be some value in him. Not a lot but some. I think he's done and that a pickup like this is more about nostalgia than anything else. I want this team to have guys young enough to be part of a long Cup drive, which means younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Some people I respect have made a move. It's time to go. Be good. Whatinthehell is that supposed to mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Is Krecji - Lucic supposed to be a better duo than Vanek - Roy? Stafford didn't put up the numbers when he had a decent center and 40 goal scoring winger either. I really don't think Stafford has another gear he can grab in the playoffs. Jeez. I just looked at the thread title. Man, have we gone off topic. I think he does. With no support whatsoever he had at least 7 shots in the final game in Philly. But look at us.....it isn't so ridiculous to compare Stafford with Horton....we are doing just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacollin Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 *sigh* No. No. No. For the second time today, I am talking about his career playoff stats, most of which did have Roy at center. He has NEVER elevated his game in the playoffs. And he seemed to do just fine this year without a center during the season. Hell, he had a career year without his center. He couldn't/didn't carry it over when the games mattered most. Another point your missing is it's not the same 4mil. What percentage of the salary cap was $4mil in 2007 vs the $62 mil it will be this year. I'm at work and can't look it up but $4 mil was a much bigger piece of the pie in 2007 than it is today after the large cap hikes the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Another point your missing is it's not the same 4mil. What percentage of the salary cap was $4mil in 2007 vs the $62 mil it will be this year. I'm at work and can't look it up but $4 mil was a much bigger piece of the pie in 2007 than it is today after the large cap hikes the last few years. It's a very good point. Percentage-wise it has been a huge shift. The cap has gone from 39M post-lockout to what will probably be over 60M this coming year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted June 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Some people I respect have made a move. It's time to go. Be good. Excellent. I wish you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Some people I respect have made a move. It's time to go. Be good. Quitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 If drury's knee is shot, as tortorella indicates, then obviously NFW would I want him on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 not sure why ghost is bowing out his counter argument always get you thinking, but anyways, I think one of the reasons i keep flippin back n forth on drury is that I am not sold on him. Hes got potential but I dont wanna be nostalgic, i would rather spend the money elsewhere and someone upthread or somewhere else said we should trade to get higher in the draft and I actually like that idea even though ik it would be extremely difficult. Drury can stay in NYC and we can continue to find our identity as a different team. It makes more sense to me to bring in Laich than to pay drury and I think it would help us out more so lets do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Some people I respect have made a move. It's time to go. Be good. :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Another point your missing is it's not the same 4mil. What percentage of the salary cap was $4mil in 2007 vs the $62 mil it will be this year. I'm at work and can't look it up but $4 mil was a much bigger piece of the pie in 2007 than it is today after the large cap hikes the last few years. When was I discussing Stafford's contract in this thread? I was talking about Horton vs Stafford in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 When was I discussing Stafford's contract in this thread? I was talking about Horton vs Stafford in the playoffs. Horton ...17 pts in the 21 playoff games (8 pts came in 4 game Philly sweep). 1 PPG. 2 PPA. 3 PPpts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 Horton ...17 pts in the 21 playoff games (8 pts came in 4 game Philly sweep). 1 PPG. 2 PPA. 3 PPpts. That's a lot of PP's. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 That's a lot of PP's. :o Oof! :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 If drury's knee is shot, as tortorella indicates, then obviously NFW would I want him on the team. Of course, NFW would I trust Torts any farther than I could throw him. Even if true, what kind of coach sandbags a player like that before the information is public knowledge? Torts is an arrogant snot who literally caught lightning in a bottle one year and has lived off it ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRH Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 His ice time was a lot more for his first 2 years in NY than it was here. He was used plenty. I didn't say he wasn't used plenty. I said he was used poorly. For example, in Buffalo he camped next to the net on power plays; in New York they had him on the half-wall and Gomez down low. Huh? Also, he played 731:13 on the PP his last two years in Buffalo; his first two years in New York (playing more ice time overall) he was on the PP for 610:57...a full two hours less. Considering that about half his goals in Buffalo came on the power play (33 of 67) during those years, that's just stupid. Also, his last two years in Buffalo, he took 1,641 and 1,603 faceoffs. Playing more ice time the next year in New York, he took 1,359 and 1,183. Did they really have someone better to take faceoffs? Those are just three examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacollin Posted June 14, 2011 Report Share Posted June 14, 2011 When was I discussing Stafford's contract in this thread? I was talking about Horton vs Stafford in the playoffs. My apologies, perhaps it wasn't you but earlier in the thread they were comparing the two $4mil contracts and pointing out thevalues of the players each having the same contact to show overpayment to Staff. Since reg season stats were the same the conversation shifted to the playoff intagables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 Some people I respect have made a move. It's time to go. Be good. Are you really gone? First PA, now Ghost. It's getting to be like a Reagan Youth meeting in here, they really knew how to whoop it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 15, 2011 Report Share Posted June 15, 2011 It's getting to be like a Reagan Youth meeting in here, they really knew how to whoop it up. I preferred the Dead Kennedys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.