deluca67 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 What's your rationale behind this team not being able to compete with only adding 1 or 2 players? Wasn't it only the removal of 2 players that sent them on a downward spiral to begin with? It was more than two players combined with a shift in how the game was being called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Tell me these 6 or 7 "bad" contracts and what kind of game changers you are going to attract if you tear apart a team that has made the playoffs the last two years. You continue to lose all credibilty with your hyperbole and your treating this team as if they struggled to stay out of the basement four years running. In the past 4 years, Buffalo Sabres fans have spent $160,000,000 in home tickets alone in return for 0 Playoff Victories. Add in concessions, jersey sales, center ice package, opposing arena tickets....and we are nearing $400 million. How's that return on your investment going folks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 In the past 4 years, Buffalo Sabres fans have spent $160,000,000 in home tickets alone in return for 0 Playoff Victories. Add in concessions, jersey sales, center ice package, opposing arena tickets....and we are nearing $400 million. How's that return on your investment going folks? Good points. I think you should stop following the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 In the past 4 years, Buffalo Sabres fans have spent $160,000,000 in home tickets alone in return for 0 Playoff Victories. Add in concessions, jersey sales, center ice package, opposing arena tickets....and we are nearing $400 million. How's that return on your investment going folks? I'm sure numbers like those didn't factor into Pegula's decision to buy the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Good points. I think you should stop following the team. Typical response from those that refuse to hold this franchise to any standard of success. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Typical response from those that refuse to hold this franchise to any standard of success. :doh: To a post that purports that fans pay for playoff victories? I pay to go to and enjoy the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 "Destroying a team" that isn't good enough to win the Cup is far from being as catastrophic as you want to believe. What is the goal of this franchise? Being better than the Islanders and Oilers or is it winning the Stanley Cup? The "stars", as you put it, are not good enough to lead this team to a Cup. Even so let's keep them around because fans are afraid of not having "stars." Let's keep layering fand-aids over the problem and never really address them. Let's promote new rugs, coats of paint and free programs as "indicators" of real change while the same ineffectual roster takes the ice next season with the same results. The Sabres are in a similar position as the Bills were in under Jauron. They were never the worst team in the league and they were also never close to being a championship contender. It is called mediocrity. As long as fans are willing to accept it you shouldn't expect different results. Im not accepting it. I hated this team for 3 years but was still a fan. Its not the same team next year. It will never be the same team. We have new players who are rising to the challenge and I agree that some of the older guys should go out the door. But you toss them all out at once you have a crap team that never learns to win. Hecht, Boyes, Goose may all be gone next year either way and I would be fine if 2 of them left this summer. Pommers I have advocated trading. Trading Vanek and Miller unless your getting back top 10 nhl talent leaves you with players similar to ones you just lost. The difference btw the top 10 guys and the rest is the consistency but that doesnt mean that Vanek isnt a top lw by any means. Also those minor changes that Pegula has been doing changes the culture of everything from the locker room to the fans. It changes your precious status quo. Ryan Miller is the heart of this team and he had been better than last year but I think he will regain his form this year. Hes the undisputed leader because he does everything a leader should do. He praises teammates when they play well and calls them out when they are lazy or bad. He works on his own game and tries to be the best he can. Like it or not, this team is changing quickly and it has nothing to do with roster moves and everything to do with leadership in the room and the young guys who have risen to the occasion. also this team had succes this year. They dragged themselves out of the basement and went all the way to game 7 in the 1st round. so they made progress over last year so i can live with that. If they go backwards this year that would be completely unacceptable but as the playoffs are not over we will wait and see what moves they plan to do before i judge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 It was more than two players combined with a shift in how the game was being called. Maybe, but the team we saw develop last year was much different IMO than the teams since the lockout. While I didn't agree with TW last offseason about 1 or two players making a difference, I'm starting to be swayed this offseason. I'm at least going to wait until this season is over until I slam them for not doing something that they can't even do yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 let's say you guys are right, just for shits and giggles. who should we pick up to make our team not ###### after we clean house? this way you guys get to think of possibilities instead of mindlessly spouting whats happened year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Im not accepting it. I hated this team for 3 years but was still a fan. Its not the same team next year. It will never be the same team. We have new players who are rising to the challenge and I agree that some of the older guys should go out the door. But you toss them all out at once you have a crap team that never learns to win. Hecht, Boyes, Goose may all be gone next year either way and I would be fine if 2 of them left this summer. Pommers I have advocated trading. Trading Vanek and Miller unless your getting back top 10 nhl talent leaves you with players similar to ones you just lost. The difference btw the top 10 guys and the rest is the consistency but that doesnt mean that Vanek isnt a top lw by any means. Also those minor changes that Pegula has been doing changes the culture of everything from the locker room to the fans. It changes your precious status quo. Ryan Miller is the heart of this team and he had been better than last year but I think he will regain his form this year. Hes the undisputed leader because he does everything a leader should do. He praises teammates when they play well and calls them out when they are lazy or bad. He works on his own game and tries to be the best he can. Like it or not, this team is changing quickly and it has nothing to do with roster moves and everything to do with leadership in the room and the young guys who have risen to the occasion. also this team had succes this year. They dragged themselves out of the basement and went all the way to game 7 in the 1st round. so they made progress over last year so i can live with that. If they go backwards this year that would be completely unacceptable but as the playoffs are not over we will wait and see what moves they plan to do before i judge them. You continue to advocate the Status Quo despite your claims otherwise. Hold on to your own "stars" and hope the "young players" develop into "stars." It's pretty much the same plan it has been since Hasek was here. The fand-aids get changed every season but the festering problems remains. As far as last season's success? They went from division winner to the 7th seed and ended up playing in one more game in the playoffs. That is "success?" Where was all the locker-room leadership when they gave away game six and didn't even bother showing up for game seven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 let's say you guys are right, just for shits and giggles. who should we pick up to make our team not ###### after we clean house? this way you guys get to think of possibilities instead of mindlessly spouting whats happened year after year. Again, the goal appears to be not to "suck" next season and not build a Cup contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 You continue to advocate the Status Quo despite your claims otherwise. Hold on to your own "stars" and hope the "young players" develop into "stars." It's pretty much the same plan it has been since Hasek was here. The fand-aids get changed every season but the festering problems remains. As far as last season's success? They went from division winner to the 7th seed and ended up playing in one more game in the playoffs. That is "success?" Where was all the locker-room leadership when they gave away game six and didn't even bother showing up for game seven? In the quiet room counting tweety birds. I hate to admit it, but even Ennis called Timmy a veteran leader earlier in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Again, the goal appears to be not to "suck" next season and not build a Cup contender. That doesn't answer my question. We're dumping the entire roster because you say they suck. So what are we gonna do now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 While I yearn to see the team I follow win the Cup, it is not the be all, end all when I decide to evaluate my return on investment. I find it condescending and more then a little insulting that someone would suggest that they know how to evauate my return. While I disagree with many of the opinions put forth before me, I respect most of those opinions and I believe all of you have the right to be miserable while following your team. Please respect my right to enjoy the ride while being disappointed with the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 That doesn't answer my question. We're dumping the entire roster because you say they suck. So what are we gonna do now? Again, a poster that wants to interpret not being good enough to win the Cup as "suck." I believe I called that shot in a response to TW. Do I know this board or what. As I stated previously, there are no "answers" in free-agency. At least realistic answers. With the lack of free-agent talent available this off-season has the potential to be a real seller's bonanza. I'll give Regier and the video scouting department credit. This team's best players and future are all the younger players. The young defensemen and the likes of Ennis, Gerbe and Adam. Not to mention those that have not seen NHL ice yet. Hand the team over to them. Take your lumps for a couple of years and use the savings to smartly cherry pick from free agency and be ready for the trade market when a Horton or Byfuglien become available. Change can be painful. In this case it is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 This is not the NFL. To compare rebuilding a nhl team to rebuilding a nfl team is pointless. The free agent market in hockey is not the same. You can't just dump players and pickup a replacement till your young player is ready. Look no further then the rangers as to why you don't do it. Most every team that has been successful recently has built within and had little roster turnover. This roster does not need to be blown up. I do agree it needs a change of culture thou that can be done with the right trade or FA signing. a minor signing (Neds, Greier) won't do. Neither will a minor departure (Mair, Peters). Somethin big, top line or top 6 needs to come in and go out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeachedNLA Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Bad contracts? Vanek Miller Pominville Stafford Boyes Hecht Gaustad This team may have not been "struggling to stay out of the basement four years running" that doesn't mean they are Cup contenders. Credibility is lost by those that believe this roster is one or two players away or certain posters that would want you to believe a line of Gerbe-Hecht-Pominville is capable of scoring 70 goals. There are even some that want you to believe the Sabres are loaded at wing and the Sabres just need that one or two centers to lead to them to a Stanley Cup. All that does is perpetuate the Status Quo. The only way to break the cycle of mediocrity is by a sudden and drastic change. The franchise is not going to turn around by staying on the same course turning over the same parts each year. There simply are not the players available in free-agency no matter how much Pegula is willing to spend. Timing is everything as they say. As difficult as it would be to move many of the bad contracts the Sabres have, it may be less difficult this off-season compared to others. Roster purges should not be reserved for those teams that "struggled to stay out of the basement four years running." A team like the Sabres need to take a realistic look at their roster and measure it against their ability to win the Stanley Cup. A honest and realist review of the roster will tell you that drastic change is needed. It doesn't mean that every player "sucks" or this team "sucks" as I am sure some would be ready to replay as such. If you are honest about this team you know that the current make-up of the roster is nowhere good enough and needs more than a player here and a player there. Think your logic is flawed, in the sense that "throw out all bad contracts"... Look at the Flyers. They have a ton of bad contracts. Every year, they work within the confines (and they WERE the worst team in the league not that long ago, went big on free-agency when a lot was out there to be had). Sabres are different in the sense that our so-called "bad contracts" come from the perception we've been too loyal to our own home-grown talent (Where-as, Flyers got in reasonable cap shape, spent tons of money on people who every year they jettison for next-to-nothing..., and have good hockey people making those decisions..., Can we please get Don Luce back??). If you want to draw a bulls-eye on the free-agency class of say, 2012, 2013, 2014... and KNOW you will get better, sure, start the fire-sale (with a talented young team with major missing pieces, that is a crap-shoot, IMO). Is there a Crosby / Malkin on the horizon? (it sux to be us, and see that happen, aye? can you say LUCK!! -- and if-not, e have some peole involved in that "luck" in charge here, now...) Best bet is to slowly build our pieces that are valuable, with worth, build the team chemistry, and now with Pegula willing to do so, look for the key trades (And yes, weed out the "Bad contracts" in the process..., which I think as time marches , Vanek's contract becomes more pallet-able?). Where we differ... Throwing the baby out with the bath-water, with an owner like Pegula is also a viable approach (in Buffalo? Pegula has the keys now..., in a year or so, with no action, we may see, hopefully not)... with the signing of Stafford, it looks like we're going to march forward on the later path... And coming off the positives of last season, that to me seems to make best sense. Go Buffalo Sabres!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 You continue to advocate the Status Quo despite your claims otherwise. Hold on to your own "stars" and hope the "young players" develop into "stars." It's pretty much the same plan it has been since Hasek was here. The fand-aids get changed every season but the festering problems remains. As far as last season's success? They went from division winner to the 7th seed and ended up playing in one more game in the playoffs. That is "success?" Where was all the locker-room leadership when they gave away game six and didn't even bother showing up for game seven? Look stop shoving your way of evaluating this team down my throat. I dont care if they won the presidents trophy or the division or the conference, if they dont show improvement than its pointless. They did improve and the only reason they made the playoffs the year your referring to is because Ryan Miller played out of his mind and yet you want to trade him because he sucks. You remember those 2 shutouts he got, he sucked in them too. You know what a leader can only drag his team so far. Game 7 the only player doing jack was miller and he was getting pounded so yup a young team with a young defense lost to one of the most potently offensive teams in the NHL and that equates to BLOW UP THE ROSTER! Trade our veterans they are all over paid! Abandon ship! MAYDAY MAYDAY!!! Heres a thought, how about we don't blow up the roster and we change the status quo by bringing in what UFA's we can, signing to reasonable deals what RFA's we want, and trading players with value if there is some equal value coming back in return. Or we can just buy out everyone from Ennis to Vanek and next year we can see how well the Portland Pirates play in the NHL. At least i am willing to evaluate the whole the season in which we clearly learned and improved, as opposed to evaluating what you want, when you want to prove that every player over the age of 26 should be moved off the roster and replaced with the nothingness that is UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloSoldier2010 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Again, a poster that wants to interpret not being good enough to win the Cup as "suck." I believe I called that shot in a response to TW. Do I know this board or what. As I stated previously, there are no "answers" in free-agency. At least realistic answers. With the lack of free-agent talent available this off-season has the potential to be a real seller's bonanza. I'll give Regier and the video scouting department credit. This team's best players and future are all the younger players. The young defensemen and the likes of Ennis, Gerbe and Adam. Not to mention those that have not seen NHL ice yet. Hand the team over to them. Take your lumps for a couple of years and use the savings to smartly cherry pick from free agency and be ready for the trade market when a Horton or Byfuglien become available. Change can be painful. In this case it is necessary. But if we dumped these players instead of resigning them who would you pick up?? You insistently complain about players with bloated contracts. Is that a problem? Absolutely. Is 4 mil a year for Stafford "too much"? Not in my opinion. Look at Pominville. He got 5.3 a year after one 30 goal season. Drew just made 1.3 mil less a year. it looks to me that Darcy has already fixed his problem. Looks like all we can do at this point is play the waiting game, and wait for the bad contracts to expire. I honestly don't understand how you can be so jaded about this franchise with Terry and Ted coming in and taking the reigns. Do you seriously have absolutely no optimism whatsoever? This is quite possibly the best thing that has happened to the Sabres ever, short of getting the first pick overall in 1970. I just fail to see how anyone can't be optimistic. I guess I'm with TW though, I'll enjoy the season more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 Look stop shoving your way of evaluating this team down my throat. I dont care if they won the presidents trophy or the division or the conference, if they dont show improvement than its pointless. They did improve and the only reason they made the playoffs the year your referring to is because Ryan Miller played out of his mind and yet you want to trade him because he sucks. You remember those 2 shutouts he got, he sucked in them too. You know what a leader can only drag his team so far. Game 7 the only player doing jack was miller and he was getting pounded so yup a young team with a young defense lost to one of the most potently offensive teams in the NHL and that equates to BLOW UP THE ROSTER! Trade our veterans they are all over paid! Abandon ship! MAYDAY MAYDAY!!! Heres a thought, how about we don't blow up the roster and we change the status quo by bringing in what UFA's we can, signing to reasonable deals what RFA's we want, and trading players with value if there is some equal value coming back in return. Or we can just buy out everyone from Ennis to Vanek and next year we can see how well the Portland Pirates play in the NHL. At least i am willing to evaluate the whole the season in which we clearly learned and improved, as opposed to evaluating what you want, when you want to prove that every player over the age of 26 should be moved off the roster and replaced with the nothingness that is UFA. When did I say Miller "sucks." You obviously don't understand the point and I do not have the patience of Annie Sullivan to help you. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 When did I say Miller "sucks." You obviously don't understand the point and I do not have the patience of Annie Sullivan to help you. :doh: i get the point. ditch the overpaid guys who arent worth what they are getting paid, suffer for 4 or 5 years while we cultivate new talent and hope that makes this team a stanley cup champion. I just don't agree with the point. I'd explain it further but its like yelling at Helen Keller. :bag: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 When did I say Miller "sucks." You obviously don't understand the point and I do not have the patience of Annie Sullivan to help you. :doh: So, you bitch a blue streak about the Sabres sucking, without actually using the word suck, and then you jump on someone for accusing you of saying they suck? C'mon. And your solution to the Sabres not sucking is for them to suck harder for a few more years? That's great. Real growth for teams comes through trades, not buying someone in FA with some extra cash laying around, and for that you need to have assets, not prospects. Every team has prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 12, 2011 Report Share Posted June 12, 2011 To a post that purports that fans pay for playoff victories? I pay to go to and enjoy the games. Let me guess, you were probably an ace on homework assignments but somehow always came up short when it came time for the test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Don't know about Eleven, but I didn't do homework and aced all my tests. Except Science. I hated Science. Do you think that's why I enjoy the ride while still being disappointed in the outcome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Don't know about Eleven, but I didn't do homework and aced all my tests. Except Science. I hated Science. Do you think that's why I enjoy the ride while still being disappointed in the outcome? I'm not disappointed in the outcome...because I expect the outcome.....which leads me to understand the regular season is meaningless....which means there is no ride for me. Now if you think the past 4 years have been entertaining and worth your money, who am I to argue? It's your money, and if you say you are entertained, then you are entertained. I think sometimes people confuse entertainment or success with the subsiding of misery. The team was disgusting for half the year, went on a run to just get them into the playoffs, only to fail to win a series once again. They had to fight just to get invited to the prom, popped a woody during a slow dance, and the faithful claim success. Meanwhile Vancouver is naked in Gurtler's hot tub with a bottle of Captain and a date who just got her braces off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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