Drury

[carpandean]

I'll wager Redden sits right where he's at. Playing in the NHL is an honor to be sure, making 6.5 mil a season as opposed to a lower number is all about you and your family, which always comes first, player after player state such, because at the end of the day, it's the truth. I can't see any team taking that contract.

You may be right, especially with $6.5M in salary this year (versus "just" $5M next year.) I did hear that he might try to play in Europe, which I seem to remember means that the Rangers still pay him the difference in salary, but his cap hit wouldn't count.

[LGR4GM]

You may be right, especially with $6.5M in salary this year (versus "just" $5M next year.) I did hear that he might try to play in Europe, which I seem to remember means that the Rangers still pay him the difference in salary, but his cap hit wouldn't count.

i thought because he was in the AHL his cap hit didnt count?

[HopefulFuture]

You may be right, especially with $6.5M in salary this year (versus "just" $5M next year.) I did hear that he might try to play in Europe, which I seem to remember means that the Rangers still pay him the difference in salary, but his cap hit wouldn't count.

This is one of the very few options Torts has.

 

I think we'll see some moves, depends really on how bad they want Richards.

 

But carp, if, what if, this plays into the Sabres being able to get Richards at a somewhat more reasonable number.

It atleast gives room for hope.

[HopefulFuture]

i thought because he was in the AHL his cap hit didnt count?

1 way contract, it counts.

 

http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=630

 

of course, they could always buy him out, that would give some relief this year, but next year and the following it would hurt.

 

http://www.capgeek.com/buyout_calculator.php?player_id=630&buyout_y=2011&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=17

[inkman]

now can we trade them for dubinsky?

He ain't goin nowheres.

[wacollin]

Drury is listed at $7.5Mil on cap geek, isn't he included in that $41+/- mil?

[Lanny]

1 way contract, it counts.

 

http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=630

 

of course, they could always buy him out, that would give some relief this year, but next year and the following it would hurt.

 

http://www.capgeek.com/buyout_calculator.php?player_id=630&buyout_y=2011&buyout_m=06&buyout_d=17

If he clears waivers and is sent to the AHL his cap hit counts on the Rangers cap?

 

http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22

 

He doesn't show on the Rangers capgeek page, this year or last.

 

That’s what happens sometimes when a player signs a six-year, $39 million contract and then falls short of expectations. With four of those years and $23 million still remaining on his deal, Redden became a roster liability and the Rangers decided to bury his contract in the minors, thus ridding themselves of the $6.5 million cap hit if not the obligation to continue paying a player who no longer fits in their plans.

 

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/feed/2010-09/bad-contracts/story/wade-redden-takes-his-65-million-cap-hit-to-hartford#ixzz1PYVIqCad

 

It's similar to the situation many want to do with Morrisson this year.

[X. Benedict]

If he clears waivers and is sent to the AHL his cap hit counts on the Rangers cap?

 

http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=22

 

He doesn't show on the Rangers capgeek page, this year or last.

 

It's similar to the situation everyone wants to do with Morrisson this year.

 

What matters over the summer is this: all players under NHL contract count toward the summer cap, which is a maximum 10% over the regular season cap. Redden (even though he played for the AHL Whale) counts toward the summer cap because he is on a NHL contract.

 

The same would be true of Tim Kennedy in Florida (because he signed a 1 way with the Rangers).

[HopefulFuture]

Drury is listed at $7.5Mil on cap geek, isn't he included in that $41+/- mil?

Yes it is. But the numbers I was referring to was with a roughly 7.4 mil cap hit if they had signed Richards.

 

I am running my numbers off of the Richards scenario to see if we'd even be in the running, and so far, unless I've missed something, we are.

[Lanny]

What matters over the summer is this: all players under NHL contract count toward the summer cap, which is a maximum 10% over the regular season cap. Redden (even though he played for the AHL Whale) counts toward the summer cap because he is on a NHL contract.

 

The same would be true of Tim Kennedy in Florida (because he signed a 1 way with the Rangers).

Ah, I see, thanks. So every Summer he counts on their NHL cap until they put him back in the AHL. They really screwed themselves with that contract.

[LGR4GM]

What matters over the summer is this: all players under NHL contract count toward the summer cap, which is a maximum 10% over the regular season cap. Redden (even though he played for the AHL Whale) counts toward the summer cap because he is on a NHL contract.The same would be true of Tim Kennedy in Florida (because he signed a 1 way with the Rangers).

 

 

Yes it is. But the numbers I was referring to was with a roughly 7.4 mil cap hit if they had signed Richards.I am running my numbers off of the Richards scenario to see if we'd even be in the running, and so far, unless I've missed something, we are.

 

 

Ah, I see, thanks. So every Summer he counts on their NHL cap until they put him back in the AHL. They really screwed themselves with that contract.

OOOOOOO, that makes perfect sense now. So they are screwed because they will be hampered by drury's contract. I hope Dru screws them and we somehow end up with richards because of that. Think about it, Drury leaves for the NYR in 07 then screws them out of getting Richards in 11 and the sabres get him so in a roundabout way we could lose drury and get richards... priceless.

[X. Benedict]

OOOOOOO, that makes perfect sense now. So they are screwed because they will be hampered by drury's contract. I hope Dru screws them and we somehow end up with richards because of that. Think about it, Drury leaves for the NYR in 07 then screws them out of getting Richards in 11 and the sabres get him so in a roundabout way we could lose drury and get richards... priceless.

 

Yep. CBA. Can't buy out an injured player. :thumbsup:

 

(although I don't think Richards was exactly on the Sabres radar - if there is a downside - it takes NYR out of a bidding war with Toronto)

[LGR4GM]

Yep. CBA. Can't buy out an injured player. :thumbsup:

 

(although I don't think Richards was exactly on the Sabres radar - if there is a downside - it takes NYR out of a bidding war with Toronto)

yea i think the sabres like the trade rout more than tying 8mil a year up in richards for 5years, but still the irony of NYR not being in on Richards and him ending up in buffalo because of Drury would be priceless

 

also from hockey lies and crap they claim that Richards will not allow for his rights to be traded: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklund/Richards-Negotiating-Rights-Will-Not-Be-Traded/1/36454

[HopefulFuture]

Yep. CBA. Can't buy out an injured player. :thumbsup:

 

(although I don't think Richards was exactly on the Sabres radar - if there is a downside - it takes NYR out of a bidding war with Toronto)

SSSHHhhhhh.....don't spoil the serenity of the moment.... :beer:

[wacollin]

Yes it is. But the numbers I was referring to was with a roughly 7.4 mil cap hit if they had signed Richards.

 

I am running my numbers off of the Richards scenario to see if we'd even be in the running, and so far, unless I've missed something, we are.

 

 

 

OK, maybe I misunderstood and am/was confused because of the bolded statements below.

 

 

 

 

The Rangers currently sit at 40.5 mil of cap hit.

The "projected" cap raise is speculated to go to 62.5 mil.

In the off season, the Rangers can exceed to 10% or 69 mil.

Drury will have to wait until Sept. when he reports to camp to get final word on his situation or he could retire, either way, his cap hit is on the books in that time frame.

With Drury and Redden's cap hits, the actually number on the cap that the Rangers currently have is 55 million dollars.

This leaves them 14.5 mil in cap space over the summer.

They have a number of RFA's to re-sign. Callahan, Dubinsky and Anisimov, Sauer and Gilroy.

There is also filling out the roster to consider, even with cheaper contracts, it still adds up.

 

Brad Richards bidding war due to begin July 1st.

Projected starting range is 7.2 to 7.7 mil.

 

In short, the Rangers have very few options right now, they're in a pickle here.

 

Again it is the bolded statement that had/has me confused because CapGeek has Drury and his $7.5Mil cap figure included in the forwards listing. Now I didn't add up all of the salaries and have never gone to the site in the past, but it appeared as if his hit was included.

 

So if Redden's AND Richards salary were included and put them at $55 million with a September number of $69Mil +/- as the target, they are actually not that bad off. Or am I still missing something?? Seems like $14 mi would give them enough room.

 

Would they be able to sign a few of their younger players to 2 way contracts and have them listed on the AHL roster initially and move them up after Drury is placed on the LTIR? Or would they be prevented from doing this because of minimum roster sizes or some other issue? That would also depend on who they have that would need to go through waivers that they could stand to lose?

 

Also I saw today in CapGeek that ESPN has reported the 2011-12 salary cap could be as high as $63.5 million

 

They can sign me for that extra $1.3 mil, wonder what my insurance payout would be if I did not pass the physical?

[HopefulFuture]

OK, maybe I misunderstood and am/was confused because of the bolded statements below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again it is the bolded statement that had/has me confused because CapGeek has Drury and his $7.5Mil cap figure included in the forwards listing. Now I didn't add up all of the salaries and have never gone to the site in the past, but it appeared as if his hit was included.

 

So if Redden's AND Richards salary were included and put them at $55 million with a September number of $69Mil +/- as the target, they are actually not that bad off. Or am I still missing something?? Seems like $14 mi would give them enough room.

 

Would they be able to sign a few of their younger players to 2 way contracts and have them listed on the AHL roster initially and move them up after Drury is placed on the LTIR? Or would they be prevented from doing this because of minimum roster sizes or some other issue? That would also depend on who they have that would need to go through waivers that they could stand to lose?

 

Also I saw today in CapGeek that ESPN has reported the 2011-12 salary cap could be as high as $63.5 million

 

They can sign me for that extra $1.3 mil, wonder what my insurance payout would be if I did not pass the physical?

Again, the pundits on the sports networks can guess all they want to, but 62.5 million is the middle baseline number. I only averaged the projection in the middle, because quite frankly, the NHL has not set a hard number and all of these numbers are merely speculative, so a middle number seemed the most reasonable way to go.

 

The cap number was specific to the Richards situation, at a mere 7.4 mil. I errored on the conservative side for his number, which could be much higher, like 8.25 to 8.5 mil higher.

 

All of the numbers are correct in so far as attempting to achieve a middle ground to see where the Rangers sit on any potential Richards signing, their respective RFA situation and the ongoing Redden/Drury cap hit disaster.

I my have missed the number by a small margine of error, either way, but it's in the ball park.

 

The idea was to run a generic scenario to see if they could afford Richards, these nasty contract situations in the off season leading up to the season and be comfortable in cap hit area. So far, by all accounts, they are not in good shape.

[carpandean]

yea i think the sabres like the trade rout more than tying 8mil a year up in richards for 5years

If they go after Richards, I hope that they exploit the cap rules (even the new ones.) I believe that they are: (1) cap hit is average of all seasons not including 41st or higher birthdays, (2) years 36-40 have to have a minimum of $1M in salary. So, with Mr. Money bags, we could give him something like:

 

11, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1 (10 yr, $51M) with a cap hit of $5.1M.

 

The numbers could be off, but you get the idea. For once, let's play the big boy games.

[Lanny]

So if Redden's AND Richards salary were included and put them at $55 million with a September number of $69Mil +/- as the target, they are actually not that bad off. Or am I still missing something?? Seems like $14 mi would give them enough room.

That's $55M with only 13 players signed. They'd have 6 RFAs to resign including Dubinsky and Callahan. They can probably do it, but it's be close and not without hamstringing them in other areas on their team.

[HopefulFuture]

If they go after Richards, I hope that they exploit the cap rules (even the new ones.) I believe that they are: (1) cap hit is average of all seasons not including 41st or higher birthdays, (2) years 36-40 have to have a minimum of $1M in salary. So, with Mr. Money bags, we could give him something like:

 

11, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1 (10 yr, $51M) with a cap hit of $5.1M.

 

The numbers could be off, but you get the idea. For once, let's play the big boy games.

I love it.

[LGR4GM]

If they go after Richards, I hope that they exploit the cap rules (even the new ones.) I believe that they are: (1) cap hit is average of all seasons not including 41st or higher birthdays, (2) years 36-40 have to have a minimum of $1M in salary. So, with Mr. Money bags, we could give him something like:

 

11, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1 (10 yr, $51M) with a cap hit of $5.1M.

 

The numbers could be off, but you get the idea. For once, let's play the big boy games.

... damn son, thats ingenious. I would skew it to be 8 years and bring that average hit up to 6even but you have given me hope.

 

10, 10, 8, 8, 6, 3, 3, 2. (8yrs 50mil, for 6.25mil cap hit.) (or add 1 more year at 1 mil for 9years 5.66mil cap hit)

 

or 9, 9, 9, 7, 6, 3, 3, 2. (8yrs 48mil, for 6mil cap hit)

[carpandean]

... damn son, thats ingenious. I would skew it to be 8 years and bring that average hit up to 6even but you have given me hope.

 

10, 10, 8, 8, 6, 3, 3, 2. (8yrs 50mil, for 6.25mil cap hit.) (or add 1 more year at 1 mil for 9years 5.66mil cap hit)

 

or 9, 9, 9, 7, 6, 3, 3, 2. (8yrs 48mil, for 6mil cap hit)

Why? We could buyout or bury those extra years (it's fun to spend Pegula's money), or even trade him to a low salary team, who doesn't care about cap (or might even need it to get above the minimum.)

[Taro T]

can't they just LTIR drury once he's eligible for the designation this fall? they'd still have to pay him, sure, but his salary wouldn't count against the cap (at least, i think that's how it would work).

(I haven't looked at the details of the BF-LTIR rules in a while, so I'm going off memory here, but this is the crux of the back end issue.)

 

The Strangers need to be at or below the non-training camp salary cap on the 1st day of the season. (Let's call it $62.5MM for now, as that seems to be the concensus guess at to what it will be.)

 

Because Drury is injured, he can't get cut or sent down. He could retire and the Strangers would be good, but that will take money out of his own pocket so he shouldn't do that from a 'looking out for his family' point of view. So, including Drury's contract, the Strangers need to be at $62.5MM on the 1st day of the season. Any amount they are below that at the time they put Drury on BF-LTIR, doesn't become cap relief for them. For example, if the initial roster on the 1st day of the season (including Drury's money) has a cap hit of $61.5MM and the Strangers then put him on BF-LTIR, they will get $6.05MM of cap relief (not the full $7.05MM that Drury counts towards the cap now) and their particular cap becomes $68.55MM including Drury's $7.05MM. Which is equivalent to an effective cap of $61.5MM.

 

And then back on the front end, it's pretty straight forward as others have mentioned. Right now, they'll have $13.55MM of their $68.75MM (110% of $62.5MM) tied up in 2 players that won't be on next year's roster (Redden & Drury). So their off-season money available on guys they do/might want is only $55MM, which won't leave a lot of room for Richardsing.

[Braedon]

If they go after Richards, I hope that they exploit the cap rules (even the new ones.) I believe that they are: (1) cap hit is average of all seasons not including 41st or higher birthdays, (2) years 36-40 have to have a minimum of $1M in salary. So, with Mr. Money bags, we could give him something like:

 

11, 11, 9, 7, 5, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1 (10 yr, $51M) with a cap hit of $5.1M.

 

The numbers could be off, but you get the idea. For once, let's play the big boy games.

 

 

That'll work Carp. I thought it was an average of the highest 3 years, but I'm wrong. In essence, they did nothing to front-loaded contracts.

 

"For the purpose of Salary Cap calculations, any long-term contract that extends past a player’s 41^st birthday will be valued and accounted for in two ways: The compensation for all seasons that do not include or succeed the player’s 41^st birthday will be totaled and divided by the number of those seasons to determine the annual average value (AAV) charged against the team’s Cap for those seasons. In all subsequent seasons, the team’s Cap charge will be the actual compensation paid to the player in that season (or seasons, as appropriate)."

 

"Additionally, in any long-term contract that averages more than $5.75 million for the three highest-compensation seasons, the following rule shall apply: Solely to determine its value for purposes of the Salary Cap, a player’s compensation for any season in which he is age 36, 37, 38, 39 and/or 40 shall be valued at a minimum of $1 million."

[carpandean]

That'll work Carp. I thought it was an average of the highest 3 years, but I'm wrong. In essence, they did nothing to front-loaded contracts.

I thought it was going to be a 5-year average, but I guess that never happened. They really didn't do much.

[Braedon]

I thought it was going to be a 5-year average, but I guess that never happened. They really didn't do much.

 

 

I know. That's what Bettman gets when getting in the ring with Donald Fehr. Maybe the NHLPA has already achieved MLBPA-like power.