Community Musings...

[SDS]

My dander managed to get up over this subject matter. Not something that happens often with me. I suppose I am telling you how it should be done. I guess what I should be communicating is, not how I think it should be done but, that there is a percieved bias in how the rules are enforced by you. A couple of the "lightning rod posters" have taken a tremendous amount of abuse in the 10 months I've been here and they have rarely returned fire. They've managed to keep their coomentary on subject when they are being attacked. And they get rewarded for staying on subject by having you come on here periodically and very publicly (and very personally) going after them. I see that as dirty pool. Mostly because you weild the ban hammer and it seems that you might be baiting them a bit. But also because I have little doubt that if GoDD or DeLuca or the other "miscreants" :rolleyes: were to return fire when a poster goes after them that you'd be real quick on the trigger to rid yourself of an inconvenient member, if at least for a week. And that's favoritism.

 

I'm not askeerd. :P

 

I guess I'm done with this line of conversation unless you ask for a reply. If you want to continue I'm willing to do it offline. I've said what I felt compelled to say.

 

It is a great site btw. You have a good core collection of knowledgeable posters. I don;t want to see part of that core removed because they were challenging. Challenging should be a positive in a discussion board IMO.

 

Do you see me banning people left and right? Look what it took to give a one week, you stepped waaaay over the line vacation. This should not be concerning to anyone who isn't explicitly asking for it.

 

However, I'll continue to give public feedback when I think it is appropriate.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Let me add a few more comments about reality over theory....

 

Not all attacks are created equal. When multiple people attack Mark, DeLuca, GDD or whomever, THAT is the community giving feedback to that poster. It may be extreme feedback, but it is feedback. Normally, a person takes that feedback, assess the situation and makes adjustment. If my moderation policies were criticized by a broad spectrum of people day in and day out - I would re-assess what I was doing. However, some people don't re-assess, they just keep doing regardless of the feedback they receive. I can't help those people. They are on their own.

 

Insults also serve to alert moderators on potential issues. Although you think the person doing the insulting is always wrong, my viewpoint is that is not necessarily the case. If I see 20 people insult one person, I'm sure as heck not looking to see what is wrong with 20 people and looking to issue 20 warnings. I'm looking at the target and wondering what they did to illicit that response.

 

Interesting take on it...... :beer:

[SDS]

I hate to add fuel to this fire, but I will say that when we had our exchange about Briere and Vanek a few months ago, I felt that a number of your comments crossed the line into personal-attack land -- and I don't think mine did.

 

That's true, but you were free to push back as necessary.

 

In the middle of a hard-fought playoff series, your commentary on Briere, given the sensitive history, was horrific timing IMO.

[deluca67]

Let me add a few more comments about reality over theory....

 

Not all attacks are created equal. When multiple people attack Mark, DeLuca, GDD or whomever, THAT is the community giving feedback to that poster. It may be extreme feedback, but it is feedback. Normally, a person takes that feedback, assess the situation and makes adjustment. If my moderation policies were criticized by a broad spectrum of people day in and day out - I would re-assess what I was doing. However, some people don't re-assess, they just keep doing regardless of the feedback they receive. I can't help those people. They are on their own.

 

Insults also serve to alert moderators on potential issues. Although you think the person doing the insulting is always wrong, my viewpoint is that is not necessarily the case. If I see 20 people insult one person, I'm sure as heck not looking to see what is wrong with 20 people and looking to issue 20 warnings. I'm looking at the target and wondering what they did to illicit that response.

Your advice is that posters change their position on topics? I would rather have the personal attacks than be fake. I liked the signing of the two defenseman and absolutely hate the Leino signing. That's my honest opinion and I'm not going to "re-assess" that opinion because other posters can't deal with it. Many of those same posters would be drilling the Leino contract if he signed anywhere else. That is an opinion based on being around here long enough to know people's opinions.

 

I'm not going to change my posts or my opinions based on popularity. I will base them on honesty. If that makes me negative or having "a miserable life that all depends on a Stanley Cup T-shirt" so be it. I've been a Sabres fan all my life and I have been a member on of your board since I bought my first computer and got on the world wide inter-web. I have been called everything from a Pollyanna to a flip flopper to the scourge of the posing community.

 

You may not like me Scott, since you don't actually know me it doesn't matter either way, we both know that if Pegula didn't buy the team I would be one of the handful of posters still posting today and through the summer. That's called loyalty my friend. Loyalty to a team I obviously don't agree with and loyalty to a board that offers the type of actual honest hockey talk that can't be found anywhere else.

 

I've had my say. Can we move on to the business of talking hockey.

[nfreeman]

That's true, but you were free to push back as necessary.

 

In the middle of a hard-fought playoff series, your commentary on Briere, given the sensitive history, was horrific timing IMO.

Your 2nd point is certainly fair enough. As to the first point, though, I generally have no desire to respond to personal attacks in kind (at least not to a grown-up who I usually respect and agree with).

 

As PA might say: check yo'self, girlfrend.

 

I don't need to discuss this any more -- just wanted to object to that exchange once for the record.

[Robviously]

Your 2nd point is certainly fair enough. As to the first point, though, I generally have no desire to respond to personal attacks in kind (at least not to a grown-up who I usually respect and agree with).

 

As PA might say: check yo'self, girlfrend.

 

I don't need to discuss this any more -- just wanted to object to that exchange once for the record.

I will make a note of this later tonight when I'm writing in my diary.

[nfreeman]

I will make a note of this later tonight when I'm writing in my diary.

 

Very nice. As I recall, you were also on the incorrect side of that discussion, although I don't recall the same vitriol coming from your keyboard.

[Weave]

Very nice. As I recall, you were also on the incorrect side of that discussion, although I don't recall the same vitriol coming from your keyboard.

 

Now that right there is funny. A whole lot funnier than that crack about my Momma with the thyroid problem. <_<

 

:lol:

[Robviously]

Very nice. As I recall, you were also on the incorrect side of that discussion, although I don't recall the same vitriol coming from your keyboard.

Pretty sure everything you just recalled was wrong. :nana:

[IKnowPhysics]

Continue this discussion in this thread: All About Drama

[SDS]

Your 2nd point is certainly fair enough. As to the first point, though, I generally have no desire to respond to personal attacks in kind (at least not to a grown-up who I usually respect and agree with).

 

As PA might say: check yo'self, girlfrend.

 

I don't need to discuss this any more -- just wanted to object to that exchange once for the record.

 

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be checking, but it is what it is. I was madder than a hatter when you played those cards... which I'm hoping was a sign of just how uncool it was at the time.

 

Your objection is duly noted.

[nfreeman]

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be checking, but it is what it is. I was madder than a hatter when you played those cards... which I'm hoping was a sign of just how uncool it was at the time.

Your objection is duly noted.

 

Here's what you might consider checking: One person, forum proprietor or no, getting very PO'd at a post doesn't mean that said post was uncool enough to justify crossing the line into personal attack-land. Nobody else responded the same way you did. I agree that if others had (and this jibes with your comments up-thread about if a given poster consistently elicits a wave of negative reaction, that poster should consider changing his approach), it would certainly be a strong indicator of the post's uncoolness.

[SDS]

Your advice is that posters change their position on topics?

 

No, my wish (I'm not here to "advise" anyone) is to consider changing the tactics, not the opinion. No one has changed my opinion on Montador, yet I'm aware enough to know that no one wants to hear me ramble on about his deficiencies day after day. That's the difference. I make an occasional comment every few months and then let it go.

 

I know you are smart enough to know that your constant jabs about the carpet aren't meant as real conversations, but you do it anyway. It's certainly not because you're trying to be friendly and endearing. It's not because you are trying to add to the discussion. You do it to aggravate people and people are letting you know it isn't appreciated, but you clearly don't care. So, if you don't care enough to back off on the gratuitous nonsense (or even the daily stuff that doesn't need to be said daily by yourself, but you do anyway) then you get what you get.

 

Again, this is nothing to do with the opinion itself and everything to do with the manner, frequency, and inconsiderate way you go about it. That is why you catch so much flack, yet someone else expressing the same sentiment doesn't illicit the same reaction. As far as I can tell, the motto appears to be, "If I'm not enjoying the Sabres than no one will enjoy the Sabres...". That sucks. No one likes being around miserable people who like to tell everyone how miserable they are.

 

Changing THAT part is what I am seeking. It's not much to ask.

[deluca67]

No, my wish (I'm not here to "advise" anyone) is to consider changing the tactics, not the opinion. No one has changed my opinion on Montador, yet I'm aware enough to know that no one wants to hear me ramble on about his deficiencies day after day. That's the difference. I make an occasional comment every few months and then let it go.

 

I know you are smart enough to know that your constant jabs about the carpet aren't meant as real conversations, but you do it anyway. It's certainly not because you're trying to be friendly and endearing. It's not because you are trying to add to the discussion. You do it to aggravate people and people are letting you know it isn't appreciated, but you clearly don't care. So, if you don't care enough to back off on the gratuitous nonsense (or even the daily stuff that doesn't need to be said daily by yourself, but you do anyway) then you get what you get.

 

Again, this is nothing to do with the opinion itself and everything to do with the manner, frequency, and inconsiderate way you go about it. That is why you catch so much flack, yet someone else expressing the same sentiment doesn't illicit the same reaction. As far as I can tell, the motto appears to be, "If I'm not enjoying the Sabres than no one will enjoy the Sabres...". That sucks. No one likes being around miserable people who like to tell everyone how miserable they are.

 

Changing THAT part is what I am seeking. It's not much to ask.

My "jabs" about the rug are my way of responding to shots taken at me. It's a much more effective way than getting involved in a personal attack.

 

As far as "If I'm not enjoying the Sabres than no one will enjoy the Sabres..." that's a load of crap, excuse the language. I doubt you would ever say anything to any of the smart-shinny-happy posters who want to tell you that every signing and every move is the greatest move ever. You say it's not about the opinion, yet it seems to be sometimes. Your responses seem to be geared solely towards those that question the Sabres and rarely if ever are geared towards the cheerleader crowd.

 

For the record, most of the "flack" I catch comes from you. There are a few others that try to make it personal, those I ignore. For the most part the "flack" I take is in the form of harmless banter and challenges of my opinion which I really do enjoy.

[LastPommerFan]

Man, I missed all the fun.

 

SDS-

 

As one of the (probably) more positive (not sure that's the right word) posters (albeit new) I would like to state for the record that I come here specifically because of GoDD, Weave, Deluca and the Late PA. They are the reason I am here, although I am probably not as deeply knowledgeable or well worded as what you might consider a "Best Poster". I find that they are able to critique my predictions and analysis through a lens that I cannot. Thus my vision and knowledge are significantly improved. If those 4 3 guys weren't here, I'd probably not be here as often (and thus would be unnecessarily productive at work).

 

Just my two cents.

 

GoDD, Weave, Deluca-

 

Please do not read the above statements. You are still more wrong and I am more right. ;)

[deluca67]

Man, I missed all the fun.

 

SDS-

 

As one of the (probably) more positive (not sure that's the right word) posters (albeit new) I would like to state for the record that I come here specifically because of GoDD, Weave, Deluca and the Late PA. They are the reason I am here, although I am probably not as deeply knowledgeable or well worded as what you might consider a "Best Poster". I find that they are able to critique my predictions and analysis through a lens that I cannot. Thus my vision and knowledge are significantly improved. If those 4 3 guys weren't here, I'd probably not be here as often (and thus would be unnecessarily productive at work).

 

Just my two cents.

 

GoDD, Weave, Deluca-

 

Please do not read the above statements. You are still more wrong and I am more right. ;)

I can't read anything with this tear in my eye.

[spndnchz]

I get no love. :cry: I'll try to be better.

[Weave]

I get no love. :cry: I'll try to be better.

 

In before the double entendre.............. wait..?!

[LastPommerFan]

I get no love. :cry: I'll try to be better.

 

You are the reason everyone is here (especially the lurkers :ph34r: ). I figured that would be assumed as the starting point, and my post would come after that.

[Weave]

Man, I missed all the fun.

 

SDS-

 

As one of the (probably) more positive (not sure that's the right word) posters (albeit new) I would like to state for the record that I come here specifically because of GoDD, Weave, Deluca and the Late PA. They are the reason I am here, although I am probably not as deeply knowledgeable or well worded as what you might consider a "Best Poster". I find that they are able to critique my predictions and analysis through a lens that I cannot. Thus my vision and knowledge are significantly improved. If those 4 3 guys weren't here, I'd probably not be here as often (and thus would be unnecessarily productive at work).

 

Just my two cents.

 

GoDD, Weave, Deluca-

 

Please do not read the above statements. You are still more wrong and I am more right. ;)

 

*talking to myself*

 

I am not bigger than the board. I am not bigger than the board. I am not bigger than the board.

 

 

Oh hell, Of course I am.

[SDS]

You are the reason everyone is here (especially the lurkers :ph34r: ). I figured that would be assumed as the starting point, and my post would come after that.

 

I thInk one thing we all can agree upon is that chz is the one poster we can all get behind. Rally I mean... :nana:

[SDS]

Man, I missed all the fun.

 

SDS-

 

As one of the (probably) more positive (not sure that's the right word) posters (albeit new) I would like to state for the record that I come here specifically because of GoDD, Weave, Deluca and the Late PA. They are the reason I am here, although I am probably not as deeply knowledgeable or well worded as what you might consider a "Best Poster". I find that they are able to critique my predictions and analysis through a lens that I cannot. Thus my vision and knowledge are significantly improved. If those 4 3 guys weren't here, I'd probably not be here as often (and thus would be unnecessarily productive at work).

 

Just my two cents.

 

GoDD, Weave, Deluca-

 

Please do not read the above statements. You are still more wrong and I am more right. ;)

 

No one said that didn't have value. If you think that is my point then I typed a bunch of stuff for nothing.

 

I'm on the road, so I can't respond to much for awhile.

[LastPommerFan]

No one said that didn't have value. If you think that is my point then I typed a bunch of stuff for nothing.

 

I'm on the road, so I can't respond to much for awhile.

 

no, I get your point about the repetitiveness, and I understand where you are coming from with the 20-1 analogy. As the site moderator and owner, you need traffic, and unique traffic is the best kind. If the content conversations drives the casual fan away, then that hurts traffic. I also understand where you are coming from as far as being a fan, wanting to enjoy the site so you want to keep it up, and keeping the quality of conversation high. I wasn't trying to suggest that you didn't see the value in the "contrarian" opinions. I wanted to point out that it is possible that some people are willing to take the occasional (even frequent) carpet meme in order to enjoy some opposing viewpoints.

 

You stated that people leave because of this stuff. And as a site owner/operator, I get your concern. My post was intended to be a rebuttal to that statement. These guys add value that drives people here.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

This is a very good, cathartic tangent. It's a community here, and this is probably the best open and civil discussion I've seen.

 

If a bunch of the same people here that can get under each other's skin were sitting at a bar and eating wings and drinking beer....there would probably be little to no conflict. I think some posters envision guys like DeLuca or I being that blowhard at the bar..."Grumble.Grumble..Rahr..". You get an image of somebody built in your head from their postings...and it's hard to shake. I would love to meet pretty much any regular here at some point. I can't say that about the Bills board though. There is pound for pound much more intelligent posting here, and I have never felt threatened for as much as I can stir the pot.

 

Scott does a good job. I think he's come to learn when I'm just playing "big brother" and ribbing and annoying someone a little out of love, or when I'm taking target practice and knows when to ignore me. I've probably said more personal things to him over the years than anyone...but he's been a man about it. I know that sometimes he has a short fuse and his postings will reflect that. I will admit that at first I used to say, "this guy is an a-hole", but then I saw a large enough pattern of posts from him, it's just his personality trigger. It's a tough balancing act to be both a poster and moderator/owner of the board. I can understand why Weave feels the way he does...but in Scott's defense, i know both PA and myself will challenge his authority in posts. I've pushed it enough over the years and have not been banned, so i trust Scott had reason to do it even in bad timing.

 

There are some strong personalities here and plenty of intelligent fans. Sometimes I will find myself annoyed by someone, but then totally enjoy their posts. I try not to take anything too personal. I also understand everyone wants the team to win. After this week, I think we can all agree the franchise is moving in the right direction at good speed. This should help keep tension down. It won't stop me from pointing out weakness or calling out players, but this team shouldn't be depressing.

 

Good talking everyone.....if couples could communicate like the last 4 pages, the divorce rates would be down.

[repster]

:thumbsup: Thoughtful, mature commentary.