Taro T Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 And just imagine the revolt from the fans if he had traded Briere for picks during that run. I'm pretty sure Darcy would have been killed. He definitely couldn't have been traded for picks that season. I doubt he could even have been traded for a Brendan Morrison type without there having been eyebrows raised and cries of breaking up the chemistry / ruining the Cup run / Golisano is cheap ringing out. (Although that is the type of trade I was hoping would happen.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
static70 Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 He definitely couldn't have been traded for picks that season. I doubt he could even have been traded for a Brendan Morrison type without there having been eyebrows raised and cries of breaking up the chemistry / ruining the Cup run / Golisano is cheap ringing out. (Although that is the type of trade I was hoping would happen.) Stating definitely leads people to believe you have absolute proof he could not have been traded for picks. I doubt that is the case. And in any event, as stated, everything has a price when its a commodity, I submit to you that you are in fact not correct. Not only are you not correct, but I would also state that Briere's value was high at that deadline even as a pending UFA. How high? Well now, I guess we'll never know. I do however, agree he was kept for a cup run. These conversations are a mere sideshow, the original post I put up states that whether or not this type of move (trading Briere and/or Drury) were not the core of the issue being discussed, merely examples of poor management of the organizations assets. Darcy took the risk, but in this instance, it was merely a sign of either pure arrogance that he would get one of them to resign or pure incompetence. Darcy doesn't come across as arrogant, so incompetence would be the next natural choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Stating definitely leads people to believe you have absolute proof he could not have been traded for picks. I doubt that is the case. And in any event, as stated, everything has a price when its a commodity, I submit to you that you are in fact not correct. Not only are you not correct, but I would also state that Briere's value was high at that deadline even as a pending UFA. How high? Well now, I guess we'll never know. I do however, agree he was kept for a cup run. These conversations are a mere sideshow, the original post I put up states that whether or not this type of move (trading Briere and/or Drury) were not the core of the issue being discussed, merely examples of poor management of the organizations assets. Darcy took the risk, but in this instance, it was merely a sign of either pure arrogance that he would get one of them to resign or pure incompetence. Darcy doesn't come across as arrogant, so incompetence would be the next natural choice. Of COURSE he could have been traded for picks, had the Sabres been willing to accept that in return from another team. Had you read the post I was referring to, which was addressing the expected fans' reaction to trading him for picks, you would have understood what I and several others have meant in this thread. :wallbash: There is NO WAY that he could have been traded for picks without causing the fans to go balistic. I'd argue that it would also have hurt the team's "chemistry" as trading him for picks brings with it the implication that the team is looking to the future and not the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbossy Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Last year, IMO, would have been the year to blow some of it up. The majority of the people after this year will say the same thing. They just don't have all the pieces. Let me restate that. They don't have all the DIFFERENT pieces. They have a bunch of 4th liners and a bunch of 2nd liners, if that. Mediocre and more mediocre, with a little M&M on the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Of COURSE he could have been traded for picks, had the Sabres been willing to accept that in return from another team. Had you read the post I was referring to, which was addressing the expected fans' reaction to trading him for picks, you would have understood what I and several others have meant in this thread. :wallbash: There is NO WAY that he could have been traded for picks without causing the fans to go balistic. I'd argue that it would also have hurt the team's "chemistry" as trading him for picks brings with it the implication that the team is looking to the future and not the present. The whole conversation reeks of living in fantasy playstation/xbox land. We might as well expand this conversation to every single UFA that has left any team in professional sports. Sure, they all could have been dealt, but the vast majority aren't moved. Does that make all of those GMs incompetent or arrogant too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
static70 Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Well, its not really living in fantasy land. As fans, lets try and find a common ground for what is lacking on this team. We have identified individual positions, but, lets look at a build out for a contender, which is in fact, what LQ has stated they are laboring to do. For my thoughts on this, the #1 underlying issue is the forwards. Not that defense could not be addressed as well, but I'll start with scoring line #1. My first move is to bring in a franchis Center. The first question is from where? The draft? If indeed it is the draft is there anything outside of the top 3 to 5 players projecting that we may consider a serious immediate contributor? If not the draft, is there anything in the free agency market that catches your eyes? I don't see anything according to these listings: http://www.sportscity.com/nhl/2010-nhl-unrestricted-free-agents-by-position/#Center http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php?team=none&pos=C&summer=none&status=none&type=none How about a trade then? Who would you go after? What teams are willing to play with us? What would the cost be? Submit your deal. Then there is the Right Wing position on scoring line #1. Stafford? Please. Mancari? Maybe, but he's never up with the big club long enough to develop any chemistry. So, who then? Once again, the draft? Doubt it for an immediate contributor. No one in Portland looks ready. So let's go with trade again. http://www.sportscity.com/nhl/2010-nhl-unrestricted-free-agents-by-position/#Right Wing http://www.nhlnumbers.com/freeagents.php?team=none&pos=R&summer=none&status=none&type=none Blake Wheeler as an RFA catches my eye right away, but Boston? To a division rival? Whats that gonna cost us? Niklas Bergfors as well. and then there is defense. Why bother even posting the links. What pieces are missing, what can be brought in without giving up that is a proven contributor and what would we have to move to right the ship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Let's not leave out Lemieux and Jagr too. They sucked badly to land both of those players too. Each of the players listed above, Buffalo had no shot of landing any of them. Pittsburgh has had the incredible luck of sucking at just the right time. I guess some might call it a talent. No doubt, timing is crucial (as is the right ball popping up at the right time). So, lacking the luck to land a franchise-type player, we could build like the Red Wings - judicious draft picks, and just the right amount of trades and free agents at the right time. Except their draft picks turn out to be Zetterberg and ours turn out to be Roy, Stafford, Mair... Sounds like a scouting issue to me. Any way you look at it, this franchise has been living on its reputation for the last few seasons. If you miss the playoffs for more than a couple seasons in a row, you're not rebuilding - you suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 I don't have much to add, other than I don't understand why the Sabres haven't called up a few guys from Portland and healthy-scratched a few of their alleged "top 6." Last night, like the Minnesota game, was completely and utterly unacceptable. I see no light at the end of the tunnel. This team is dying for a shakeup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 If you miss the playoffs for more than a couple seasons in a row, and you completely fall to pieces down the stretch for 2 years in a row, you're not rebuilding - you suck. fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Dance Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Outside of Crosby, I don't see one supporting fact as to why the Buffalo Sabres (Darcy Regier in particular) could not make a trade for the first overall pick. Darcy blew it when he let Drury and Briere walk. I understand they were making a cup run and hind sight is 20/20 but the reality is (and Darcy admitted as much in post season comments) that the Sabres had no intention of signing both. They were going after Drury first. So, you let Briere walk for zero return when you could have traded him at the deadline? The reason I point this out, isn't to show that a specific player could be had or a #1 overall could have come our way for this player, I point it out as a full exposure to complete inept and (in my most humble opinion) incompetent management of assets that is more than just a telling sign of the shortcomings of the Sabres GM. It is a statement, Darcy Regier does not have what I like to call the "BRIAN BURKE" foresight or vision, if you will, to build a contender beyond a season or 2. It also shows that without vision he also appears to be oblivious to taking lessons learned by actually studying what successful franchises have done to maintain a consistent competitive team. Goaltending is indeed important, but if you can't score consistently, eventually goaltending will break down, we see this when the Sabres play 75% of their games in the defensive zone more than the offensive zone. The point I am getting at here is Darcy should recognize he needs to move current assets to build a contender. As fans, we have the luxury of loyalty to players due to their on ice performance. Miller is a prime example of this. But I would trade Miller in a heart beat if brought in a Patrick Kane type player. We almost had it in 99 with Hasek, but almost isn't a Stanley Cup championship season. We are beating a dead horse with this nonsense of great goaltending and subpar offensive talent. I am not advocating trading Miller, just using him as an example. All players on every roster are a commodity, and as such, can be used as tools to build a better mouse trap so to speak. There are trades that can be made that would bring in something to build around, some players are not movable on certain teams due to their importance to that organization, but, it goes without saying, you have to give to get. Darcy needs to give period, otherwise we will sit with a majority of these players for the next 2 seasons at the very least. Movable players with upside for return in my opinion: Derek Roy Tim Connolly Ryan Miller Jason Pomminstein Drew Stafford Paul Gaustad There are others in the prospect pool. But the point is once again there for all to see, put together the right package and an impact player can be brought in. You have to fill the holes as you go season by season due to the cap but the bottom line is what good does it do us fans to sit and watch a great goalie like Miller when the Cup will never be won here? Just some food for thought is all. :worthy: :worthy: :worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Isn't it time the coaching staff and players had one of those meetings? Or is it players only meetings? I forget. Either way, that should fix things right up :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Isn't it time the coaching staff and players had one of those meetings? Or is it players only meetings? I forget. Either way, that should fix things right up :thumbsup: I think one was held in the last couple of weeks. It is clear that the meetings are not helping and hopefully DR will for once open his eyes come the offseason. A slump does not last 1/4 of the season. This is a MAJOR problem with coaching AND players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Pittsburgh has had the incredible luck of sucking at just the right time. I guess some might call it a talent. Not only do you have to be lucky, you have to have the right level of suckiness during the seasons when the next "great one" is draft eligible. The "next Crosby" is a 14-year old from Crosby's home town. So, we should start building for the 2013-14 season, finish dead last in 2012-13, and hope that one of the other bottom teams doesn't win the draft lottery. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 The "next Crosby" is a 14-year old from Crosby's home town. So, we should start building for the 2013-14 season, finish dead last in 2012-13, and hope that one of the other bottom teams doesn't win the draft lottery. :thumbsup: Won't matter. Even if we DO win the lottery, Ruff will see it as his mission to turn him into the next Curtis Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Won't matter. Even if we DO win the lottery, Ruff will see it as his mission to turn him into the next Curtis Brown. Ohhhh two snaps up and a circle around and big old bird to the man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Won't matter. Even if we DO win the lottery, Ruff will see it as his mission to turn him into the next Curtis Brown. Ohhhh two snaps up and a circle around and big old bird to the man! I have found no reason to add anything to these "State of the Sabres" threads thanks to the two of you. ...not that I added that much anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matter2003 Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 If the Sabres find a way to play .500 hockey the rest of the season(and this is questionable after 21 games of crap), they will finish a WHOPPING 5 points ahead of last years non-playoff pace. While they are probably safe in terms of making the playoffs, they could easily slide down to 7th by seasons end. October/early November that saw them start with a 12-3-1 record seems like so long ago. :( Sabres have a 99.9% chance of making the playoffs and a 78% chance of finishing in 3rd place according to this site: Sabres Playoff Chances The next highest chance the Sabres have is a 10% chance to finish 2nd in the conference(leapfrogging NJ). So basically they have an 88% chance of winning the division when u add those 2 up. Ottawa has a 7 percent chance, Montreal has a 4 percent chance, and the Bruins have a 1 percent chance. I think I like our chances based on statistics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Sabres have a 99.9% chance of making the playoffs and a 78% chance of finishing in 3rd place according to this site: Sabres Playoff Chances The next highest chance the Sabres have is a 10% chance to finish 2nd in the conference(leapfrogging NJ). So basically they have an 88% chance of winning the division when u add those 2 up. Ottawa has a 7 percent chance, Montreal has a 4 percent chance, and the Bruins have a 1 percent chance. I think I like our chances based on statistics... Does the crystal ball factor in the Sabres results over the last 21 games? If not, it is fairly useless and is not indicative of the direction this team is heading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 No doubt, timing is crucial (as is the right ball popping up at the right time). So, lacking the luck to land a franchise-type player, we could build like the Red Wings - judicious draft picks, and just the right amount of trades and free agents at the right time. Except their draft picks turn out to be Zetterberg and ours turn out to be Roy, Stafford, Mair... Sounds like a scouting issue to me. Any way you look at it, this franchise has been living on its reputation for the last few seasons. If you miss the playoffs for more than a couple seasons in a row, you're not rebuilding - you suck. Detroit is the measuring stick, but I can't help but point out that the original building block of what they have become was Yzerman, the 4th overall pick in 83. And as a minor tanget, take a look at the first two picks of that draft, then look at the next 3. Ouch. I don't have much to add, other than I don't understand why the Sabres haven't called up a few guys from Portland and healthy-scratched a few of their alleged "top 6." Last night, like the Minnesota game, was completely and utterly unacceptable. I see no light at the end of the tunnel. This team is dying for a shakeup. There's a limit on the number of AHL callups post-trade deadline. That's going to limit their options, as they don't want to get stuck in a spot where they need a player but can't call anyone up. Yes, they're allowed emergency callups, but that doesn't apply when they have 11 healthy forwards and a 12th who is only out for a day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Dryden Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Dave say it ain't so, could our Polly anna fanna actually have drank the frustrated fan kool aid ? :o ;) Seriously though is that not than an indictment of the coaching and management for these players ? Case in point in pittsburgh I am subjected to the Pgh media and all the Pens adoration. Funny contrast to the Sabres the Pens are saying every 2 points is important and approaching it a game at a time in order to win the division and capture second seed even though they already know they can not catch Washingtom for first. They stated that goal and they want to go into the playoffs on a high note and take care of business not backing in. Now is that coaching, players or both ? For as much as I do not care for Cindy Crosby I will say this as captain of the Pens he has his team focused on the the right goals and playing the right way and he backs it up where he actually steps up in games to make a difference. And games where he is shut out others on the team step up and get it done. The only one that has really stepped up for Bflo is Miller and he is not the captain and when he has an off game NOBODY seems to either care too step up or appear even capable of stepping up. That tells me a lot about what is wrong with the chemistry and make up of this team. As I am sure you know, there is a big difference between being a whiner and being Pollyanna. What this team lacks is a really good player who is a really good leader... who can lead in the locker room and on the ice. Players like that are hard to find, and the closest we have is Miller, who is not enough because he is a goalie and too Zen-like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 1-5-2 in March 1-6 in February 1-4-1 in dating to Jan 19 3 regulation wins in the last 21. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/schedule/?date=1/1/2010&hubname=nhl-sabres What? People don't like a team with consistency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VansTheMans Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I don't like advocating it, but it may be time for a coaching change. It would at least shake things up, and perhaps the Sabres could go into the playoffs with a fresh mind set. Either way, it wont happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notwoz Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I don't like advocating it, but it may be time for a coaching change. It would at least shake things up, and perhaps the Sabres could go into the playoffs with a fresh mind set. Either way, it wont happen. I'm not disagreeing with you, but whoever would be named the next coach still has to deal with the same core group of powderpuffs and figure skaters. My tendency would be to dump Darcy, who is responsible for the current roster. That would put Lindy under pressure to produce, as a new GM probably would have a list of preferred coaches in his hip pocket. A presence of a new GM, who has no emotional attachment to the current roster, would presumably would light a fire under some of the underacheivers on the roster who think they're safe under the current regime. But what do I know, I'm working on my fourth glass of wine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I'm not disagreeing with you, but whoever would be named the next coach still has to deal with the same core group of powderpuffs and figure skaters. My tendency would be to dump Darcy, who is responsible for the current roster. That would put Lindy under pressure to produce, as a new GM probably would have a list of preferred coaches in his hip pocket. A presence of a new GM, who has no emotional attachment to the current roster, would presumably would light a fire under some of the underacheivers on the roster who think they're safe under the current regime. But what do I know, I'm working on my fourth glass of wine. What new GM would want to be saddled with Lindy? The minute LQ tells the GM candidate he can't pick his own coach, end of conversation, unless you're a desperate eunuch like Darce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 I was thinking about what Torres has been eluding to recently in regards to our system being "mentally challenging". What if he's on to something?? What if maybe Lindy's system is asking the players on the ice to think too much instead of just playing the game? I've noticed a lot of our problems include poor passing, too many passes, and/or hesitation. Maybe the same could be said for our D. Perhaps we pinch too much, or ask the D to jump in on offense, i.e. cutting to the net, etc. Not sure any of this has merit, but it did make me stop and wonder if his issues with adapting to our play could be an overall team issue and the other guys just aren't talking publicly about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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