Just how bad has it become?

[LabattBlue]

If the Sabres find a way to play .500 hockey the rest of the season(and this is questionable after 21 games of crap), they will finish a WHOPPING 5 points ahead of last years non-playoff pace. While they are probably safe in terms of making the playoffs, they could easily slide down to 7th by seasons end.

 

October/early November that saw them start with a 12-3-1 record seems like so long ago. :(

[ThePebble19]

To me, here is the problem...All season long, we have only seen a handful - 2 or 3 games max - where this team has put a full effort in for 60 minutes. Early on in the season, they were getting superb goaltending, and they were putting in 2 good periods a night on most nights, which was good enough for a win. Lately, since the western swing, we are barely getting 20 minutes of solid effort each night.

 

It is so frustrating to watch this team, just because when they really put forth the full 60 minute effort, I think they can play with every team in the NHL. It's almost like they feel they have a right to take 10 minutes off here, and 5 minutes off there, or whole periods/games off at one time.

 

At this point, I just don't know whether to say it is the coach's fault for not being able to motivate the players to play a complete game, or that it is the players' themselves that are responsible for keeping pace in the game.

 

My gut says it is an unhealthy mix of the two, and that is NOT good.

[Dave Dryden]

Amazingly, I think we are seeing complacency at this point. They know they are in the playoffs, and I think they are not that concerned where they are seeded. I mean they say the right things about "moving up in the standings," but the team's actions obviously speak louder than words.

 

Complacency hits lots of teams, but mostly in football. It is hard for athletes to motivate themselves by saying, "I gotta play hard tonight so I don't have to play the Penguins in round 1." Fans think that way, but players do not(really cannot if they are to be successful).

 

What is galling about all this, is that they have been awful for 2 months. I seriously doubt they can be like the New Orleans Saints, who limped down the regular season stretch, and then turned it on and won a SB. This team has accomplished nothing, and the weak Eastern Division is allowing them to coast into the playoffs. It will be shame if a one and done in the playoffs is necessary to give this group yet another "wake-up call," after two years of no playoffs. Maybe they will turn it on come playoff time, but I doubt they will remember how they were playing most of the first 4 months of the season come April. Sad, because they can be quite good when they want to be.

[bottlecap]

I was hoping the infusion of Torres and Mancari would have a positive effect and it did pay immediate dividends. But the same management who were hemming and hawing over whether Tyler Myers should make the squad ( :doh:...? ) sent Mancari down, inserted Gaustad (with Stafford in waiting) and now we're back to the usual. ( the last two players mentioned do nothing for me) This team is going nowhere unless the chemistry changes, including a new back-up goalie. Ruff is a good coach, it's been proven, but these players just don't respond. What are you gonna do? :wallbash:

[PASabreFan]

It's only March... every team goes through periods like this... this slump isn't the worst thing in the world... they'll learn from it... besides, don't you guys ever watch other teams? We don't have it that bad...

 

:censored:

[R_Dudley]

Amazingly, I think we are seeing complacency at this point. They know they are in the playoffs, and I think they are not that concerned where they are seeded. I mean they say the right things about "moving up in the standings," but the team's actions obviously speak louder than words.

 

Complacency hits lots of teams, but mostly in football. It is hard for athletes to motivate themselves by saying, "I gotta play hard tonight so I don't have to play the Penguins in round 1." Fans think that way, but players do not(really cannot if they are to be successful).

 

What is galling about all this, is that they have been awful for 2 months. I seriously doubt they can be like the New Orleans Saints, who limped down the regular season stretch, and then turned it on and won a SB. This team has accomplished nothing, and the weak Eastern Division is allowing them to coast into the playoffs. It will be shame if a one and done in the playoffs is necessary to give this group yet another "wake-up call," after two years of no playoffs. Maybe they will turn it on come playoff time, but I doubt they will remember how they were playing most of the first 4 months of the season come April. Sad, because they can be quite good when they want to be.

Dave say it ain't so, could our Polly anna fanna actually have drank the frustrated fan kool aid ? :o

 

;) Seriously though is that not than an indictment of the coaching and management for these players ? Case in point in pittsburgh I am subjected to the Pgh media and all the Pens adoration. Funny contrast to the Sabres the Pens are saying every 2 points is important and approaching it a game at a time in order to win the division and capture second seed even though they already know they can not catch Washingtom for first. They stated that goal and they want to go into the playoffs on a high note and take care of business not backing in.

 

Now is that coaching, players or both ? For as much as I do not care for Cindy Crosby I will say this as captain of the Pens he has his team focused on the the right goals and playing the right way and he backs it up where he actually steps up in games to make a difference. And games where he is shut out others on the team step up and get it done.

 

The only one that has really stepped up for Bflo is Miller and he is not the captain and when he has an off game NOBODY seems to either care too step up or appear even capable of stepping up. That tells me a lot about what is wrong with the chemistry and make up of this team.

[bottlecap]

It's only March... every team goes through periods like this... this slump isn't the worst thing in the world... they'll learn from it... besides, don't you guys ever watch other teams? We don't have it that bad...

 

:censored:

 

This team has won 3 regulation games in the last 20. That's not bad?

[ThePebble19]

It's only March... every team goes through periods like this... this slump isn't the worst thing in the world... they'll learn from it... besides, don't you guys ever watch other teams? We don't have it that bad...

 

:censored:

 

Touche. :D

[Sabre Dance]

Pontification Warning!!

 

After watching last night's debacle against the Thrashers, I believe we are witness to a phenomenon called "de-evolution". At the beginning of the season, the Sabres were playing great; in fact, their first game of the season impressed the heck out of me. However, as the season has progressed, the team has hit a gradual downward slide. The first five minutes of last night's game was one of the worst performances I've seen from the blue and gold for many seasons. Perhaps the players have heard the words of their general manager, who more or less wrote this season off, saying in effect that next year will be better. Perhaps the team's poor play is a sort of protest, consciously or unconsciously, to demonstrate that they have given up on this season just like their GM. Maybe this is their way of letting the FO know that they expected a little more help from them down the stretch than dumping Paetsch and MacArthur and adding only Torres (who was considered expendable by Columbus....COLUMBUS!!)

 

Next season is the 40th anniversary of the Sabres entering the league. Unless the team's owner plans on getting very serious and doing a top-to-bottom housecleaning of management, scouting and coaching staffs, I beg him NOT to plan any sort of anniversary celebrations. No team who has yet to hoist the cup after 40 years should be celebrating anything, especially after this seasons near-collapse. Also, please, please do NOT revert to the old logo full-time. The Sabres I know and love went from expansion to Stanley Cup finalists in five seasons; I don't want my memories of that team to be sullied by putting the crossed-sword logo on the chests of this heartless, gutless bunch of underachievers.

 

Pittsburgh, who has had financial issues just as serious as Buffalo's, has managed to grab players like Lemieux, Jagr, Crosby, Malkin in the draft. They've assembled a supporting cast adequate enough to win the Stanley Cup three times in two different decades (and reach the Finals an additional time). The Penguins have only been around three seasons longer than the Sabres. Yet Sabre fans are still left out in the cold with an owner who sees the team as a tax write-off rather than a potential contender. If this is the best the team can hope to achieve with Golisano as owner, please, please find an owner willing to keep the team in Buffalo and to hire the best and brightest from the scouts to the GM and coach to the guy who sharpens the skates. Let that group assemble a group of players who have heart, grit and talent. Give the intensely loyal and increasingly hungry Buffalo fans something to not only cheer about, but be proud of. Give us a champion.

[PASabreFan]

Pontification Warning!!

 

After watching last night's debacle against the Thrashers, I believe we are witness to a phenomenon called "de-evolution". At the beginning of the season, the Sabres were playing great; in fact, their first game of the season impressed the heck out of me. However, as the season has progressed, the team has hit a gradual downward slide. The first five minutes of last night's game was one of the worst performances I've seen from the blue and gold for many seasons. Perhaps the players have heard the words of their general manager, who more or less wrote this season off, saying in effect that next year will be better. Perhaps the team's poor play is a sort of protest, consciously or unconsciously, to demonstrate that they have given up on this season just like their GM. Maybe this is their way of letting the FO know that they expected a little more help from them down the stretch than dumping Paetsch and MacArthur and adding only Torres (who was considered expendable by Columbus....COLUMBUS!!)

 

Next season is the 40th anniversary of the Sabres entering the league. Unless the team's owner plans on getting very serious and doing a top-to-bottom housecleaning of management, scouting and coaching staffs, I beg him NOT to plan any sort of anniversary celebrations. No team who has yet to hoist the cup after 40 years should be celebrating anything, especially after this seasons near-collapse. Also, please, please do NOT revert to the old logo full-time. The Sabres I know and love went from expansion to Stanley Cup finalists in five seasons; I don't want my memories of that team to be sullied by putting the crossed-sword logo on the chests of this heartless, gutless bunch of underachievers.

 

Pittsburgh, who has had financial issues just as serious as Buffalo's, has managed to grab players like Lemieux, Jagr, Crosby, Malkin in the draft. They've assembled a supporting cast adequate enough to win the Stanley Cup three times in two different decades (and reach the Finals an additional time). The Penguins have only been around three seasons longer than the Sabres. Yet Sabre fans are still left out in the cold with an owner who sees the team as a tax write-off rather than a potential contender. If this is the best the team can hope to achieve with Golisano as owner, please, please find an owner willing to keep the team in Buffalo and to hire the best and brightest from the scouts to the GM and coach to the guy who sharpens the skates. Let that group assemble a group of players who have heart, grit and talent. Give the intensely loyal and increasingly hungry Buffalo fans something to not only cheer about, but be proud of. Give us a champion.

 

:worthy:

[PASabreFan]

This team has won 3 regulation games in the last 20. That's not bad?

 

Where did you hear THAT?! :rolleyes:

[shrader]

I was hoping the infusion of Torres and Mancari would have a positive effect and it did pay immediate dividends. But the same management who were hemming and hawing over whether Tyler Myers should make the squad ( :doh:...? ) sent Mancari down, inserted Gaustad (with Stafford in waiting) and now we're back to the usual. ( the last two players mentioned do nothing for me) This team is going nowhere unless the chemistry changes, including a new back-up goalie. Ruff is a good coach, it's been proven, but these players just don't respond. What are you gonna do? :wallbash:

 

Mancari was an emergency call up due to the fact that the team was down to 11 forwards. By rule, they had to send him back the second a 12th forward was healthy. Callups from the NHL are limited at this time of the year, so they need to be careful there. Complain about the management all you want, but at least know the rules before doing so.

 

As for the Myers thing, I see no problem in making a 19 year old kid thinking he needs to work to stick around. In training camp, that was probably the best route to go with him. Once the season was under way, I think those comments were more for the media than anything. Create a little drama and get people talking. It sells a few extra tickets. The players themselves knew exactly what was going on.

[carpandean]

Pittsburgh, who has had financial issues just as serious as Buffalo's, has managed to grab players like Lemieux, Jagr, Crosby, Malkin in the draft.

Yeah, how dare those slackers in our front office not get their ball chosen instead of Pittsburgh's! :rolleyes:

 

I don't like our front office either, but Pittsburgh won the lottery on Crosby and sucked badly enough to get Malkin (and Staal and Fleury.) Compare them to a team that actually built itself like a normal franchise. Like, I don't know, the Red Wings or, if you consider Miller good enough, the Devils.

[shrader]

Yeah, how dare those slackers in our front office not get their ball chosen instead of Pittsburgh's! :rolleyes:

 

I don't like our front office either, but Pittsburgh won the lottery on Crosby and sucked badly enough to get Malkin (and Staal and Fleury.) Compare them to a team that actually built itself like a normal franchise. Like, I don't know, the Red Wings or, if you consider Miller good enough, the Devils.

 

Let's not leave out Lemieux and Jagr too. They sucked badly to land both of those players too. Each of the players listed above, Buffalo had no shot of landing any of them. Pittsburgh has had the incredible luck of sucking at just the right time. I guess some might call it a talent.

[deluca67]

If the Sabres find a way to play .500 hockey the rest of the season(and this is questionable after 21 games of crap), they will finish a WHOPPING 5 points ahead of last years non-playoff pace. While they are probably safe in terms of making the playoffs, they could easily slide down to 7th by seasons end.

 

October/early November that saw them start with a 12-3-1 record seems like so long ago. :(

The only differences I see from this team as it is playing now compared to early season results is that :

 

A) Miller is not stealing games as he has done all season.

 

B) The scheduled has gotten more condensed where they are not going through a entire month playing only Wed, Fri and Sat.

 

Where does that leave the team going into the playoffs? I believe it was Miller who referred to his teammates as "fragile little children." This team is neither physically or mentally tough enough for a playoff run. It's time to start looking at those men who put this team together and the man who job it is to prepare them for each game. Which of course again last night they did not show up prepared to compete.

 

Looking over this thread, haven't we been here dozens of time before over the past five years? I guess I done expecting/hoping something will change. Why would it? Simply because fans want it to? Because fans need to believe that somehow the players are going to develop the heart needed to be a serious contender? Nothing is going to change simply because there is no in the organization from the ownership down that is willing to put in the work needed to implement change.

 

Luckily Ryan Miller banked enough points in the lighter part of the season where it is almost impossible for this team to drop 11 points and out of the playoffs. They are right now only 3 points ahead of Ottawa and Montreal is hard charging and only 4 points behind. If Lindy Ruff can't become the coach needed to turn this ship around in a hurry the Sabres can easily find themselves in 3rd place in the division facing Pitt or New Jersey in the first round leading to a early exit from the playoffs.

 

Even if the Sabres are one and done Quinn and Regier will claim victory and no changes will be made.

[LabattBlue]

Yeah, how dare those slackers in our front office not get their ball chosen instead of Pittsburgh's! :rolleyes:

 

I don't like our front office either, but Pittsburgh won the lottery on Crosby and sucked badly enough to get Malkin (and Staal and Fleury.)

...and Lemieux. Not only do you have to be lucky, you have to have the right level of suckiness during the seasons when the next "great one" is draft eligible.

[bottlecap]

1-5-2 in March

1-6 in February

1-4-1 in dating to Jan 19

 

3 regulation wins in the last 21.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/schedule/?date=1/1/2010&hubname=nhl-sabres

[bottlecap]

Mancari was an emergency call up due to the fact that the team was down to 11 forwards. By rule, they had to send him back the second a 12th forward was healthy. Callups from the NHL are limited at this time of the year, so they need to be careful there. Complain about the management all you want, but at least know the rules before doing so.

 

As for the Myers thing, I see no problem in making a 19 year old kid thinking he needs to work to stick around. In training camp, that was probably the best route to go with him. Once the season was under way, I think those comments were more for the media than anything. Create a little drama and get people talking. It sells a few extra tickets. The players themselves knew exactly what was going on.

 

Thanks Darcy.

[Kristian]

1-5-2 in March

1-6 in February

1-4-1 in dating to Jan 19

 

3 regulation wins in the last 21.

 

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/teams/schedule/?date=1/1/2010&hubname=nhl-sabres

 

Man, those are ugly numbers :wallbash:

[shrader]

Thanks Darcy.

 

Facts be damned.

[zow2]

Watching this team I can't see them winning a 7 game series against anyone in the top 7. Miller has yet to show me he can carry the team through the playoffs. Maybe this is the year, we'll see. I doubt it though. I feel he got over-hyped during the Olympics. I mean c'mon, he had almost no work against Switzerland, Norway and Finland. The two Canada games he was very good but still, he gave up 6 goals in them. Now, back in NHL play he's giving them up early and often. The main reason this team will flop is the offense. The big guns disappear for too many games at a time. It's terribly frustrating watching the Sabres. They go down in flames to teams like Minn, Columbus, Atlanta, Isles, all the time! Truthfully, I don't think the Sabres are hardly better than those teams. We may have a better goalie but that's about it. I kinda' hope they slip to the 7th or 8th seed. Ottawa is a terrible matchup. I'd be more excited to see them play the Pens or Caps and be prohibitive underdogs.

[static70]

Outside of Crosby, I don't see one supporting fact as to why the Buffalo Sabres (Darcy Regier in particular) could not make a trade for the first overall pick. Darcy blew it when he let Drury and Briere walk. I understand they were making a cup run and hind sight is 20/20 but the reality is (and Darcy admitted as much in post season comments) that the Sabres had no intention of signing both. They were going after Drury first. So, you let Briere walk for zero return when you could have traded him at the deadline?

 

The reason I point this out, isn't to show that a specific player could be had or a #1 overall could have come our way for this player, I point it out as a full exposure to complete inept and (in my most humble opinion) incompetent management of assets that is more than just a telling sign of the shortcomings of the Sabres GM.

It is a statement, Darcy Regier does not have what I like to call the "BRIAN BURKE" foresight or vision, if you will, to build a contender beyond a season or 2. It also shows that without vision he also appears to be oblivious to taking lessons learned by actually studying what successful franchises have done to maintain a consistent competitive team.

 

Goaltending is indeed important, but if you can't score consistently, eventually goaltending will break down, we see this when the Sabres play 75% of their games in the defensive zone more than the offensive zone.

The point I am getting at here is Darcy should recognize he needs to move current assets to build a contender. As fans, we have the luxury of loyalty to players due to their on ice performance. Miller is a prime example of this. But I would trade Miller in a heart beat if brought in a Patrick Kane type player.

 

We almost had it in 99 with Hasek, but almost isn't a Stanley Cup championship season. We are beating a dead horse with this nonsense of great goaltending and subpar offensive talent. I am not advocating trading Miller, just using him as an example.

All players on every roster are a commodity, and as such, can be used as tools to build a better mouse trap so to speak.

There are trades that can be made that would bring in something to build around, some players are not movable on certain teams due to their importance to that organization, but, it goes without saying, you have to give to get. Darcy needs to give period, otherwise we will sit with a majority of these players for the next 2 seasons at the very least.

 

Movable players with upside for return in my opinion:

Derek Roy

Tim Connolly

Ryan Miller

Jason Pomminstein

Drew Stafford

Paul Gaustad

 

There are others in the prospect pool. But the point is once again there for all to see, put together the right package and an impact player can be brought in. You have to fill the holes as you go season by season due to the cap but the bottom line is what good does it do us fans to sit and watch a great goalie like Miller when the Cup will never be won here?

 

Just some food for thought is all.

[Mbossy]

None of those players you mention, besides Miller, are getting you a #1 draft pick. As much as I dislike Darcy, he would have been even more of an idiot to trade Briere in a year you're making a run for the cup.

[shrader]

None of those players you mention, besides Miller, are getting you a #1 draft pick. As much as I dislike Darcy, he would have been even more of an idiot to trade Briere in a year you're making a run for the cup.

 

And just imagine the revolt from the fans if he had traded Briere for picks during that run. I'm pretty sure Darcy would have been killed.

[static70]

None of those players you mention, besides Miller, are getting you a #1 draft pick. As much as I dislike Darcy, he would have been even more of an idiot to trade Briere in a year you're making a run for the cup.

You missed the point entirely. Without stating it would take a package deal or this player for that player the point was there for all to see. I've seen 40 years of hockey here in Buffalo, some great, some MEH. In each of those 40 years I would have given multiple players in a trade to secure a championship, but not at the expense of a few seasons.

 

As stated, hind sight is 20/20 but with this current team, significant moves are going to have to be made in the line up to "ATTEMPT" to build a contender. Is it a crap shoot? Most times yes, but that was the point of the post, to show that there are arrangements that may or may not be made to better the organization competitively overall. But Darcy does not even seriously try, he sits and waits to see what is going to develope out of this current squad.

 

Success is not built by those who stand idly by the roadside, success is given to those who work hard at it and take action, even encompassing the risks involved.