PASabreFan Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Was there ever a possibility that Roy and Pommer were going to become 90-pt guys? Roy is 5'8". 70-80 pts would seem to be a pretty good range for him. And Pommer is a pretty good all-around player who weighs 178 lbs, can't really create his own offense and will probably get something in the neighborhood of 25-45-70 this year. Is that far from his ceiling? As for Vanek, I'd be much happier if he were at 19-20 minutes per game too -- but I'd be happy because he'd only be getting that much ice time if he were playing well enough to justify it. You and PAFan seem to think that it has to be Lindy's fault that Vanek is struggling, and if Lindy would only open up his heart/mind/other and give Vanek more minutes, all would be well. I just don't agree with that view. I've seen Vanek have maybe one or two strong games this year. The rest of the time, he's just another guy out there. Isn't it possible that he's young, cocky, stinking rich and of the view that everything has always come easily to him, and this will too? Right. I'm sure coming to this country in his early teens, unable to speak a word of English, moving away from his home and parents and friends, then eventually making the NHL and becoming a perennial 40-goal scorer was easy. To have done the latter under Mr. Muck and Grind, with limited ice time, was the real piece of cake. Vanek's success has been earned, and it's come despite playing under Lindy Ruff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Suppressed! Repressed! Tied down! Held back! Harassed by the man! It's prejudice! It's unfair! It's an irrational fear of playing rookies (that somehow doesn't apply to Myers or Kennedy)! It's obvious that Vanek is as good as Ovechkin! Lindy's just being mean! As good as Ovechkin? Of course not. But if you look at total time on the ice last year, and goals scored, Vanek outdid him, and Crosby, Malkin and Kovalchuk. Vanek scored 1.91 goals for every 60 minutes of ice time he got. Ovechkin, 1.85. Besides the flash and dash and crazy goals and celebrations and star power, how much better is Ovechkin, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 As good as Ovechkin? Of course not. But if you look at total time on the ice last year, and goals scored, Vanek outdid him, and Crosby, Malkin and Kovalchuk. Vanek scored 1.91 goals for every 60 minutes of ice time he got. Ovechkin, 1.85. Besides the flash and dash and crazy goals and celebrations and star power, how much better is Ovechkin, really? But if he got more ice time, would that guarantee more goals? I don't know the answer to that one since the increased ice time would be dependant on situations. Anyway, that gap between Vanek and Ovechkin that you listed in incredibly small. You can't read very much into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Right. I'm sure coming to this country in his early teens, unable to speak a word of English, moving away from his home and parents and friends, then eventually making the NHL and becoming a perennial 40-goal scorer was easy. To have done the latter under Mr. Muck and Grind, with limited ice time, was the real piece of cake. Vanek's success has been earned, and it's come despite playing under Lindy Ruff. As good as Ovechkin? Of course not. But if you look at total time on the ice last year, and goals scored, Vanek outdid him, and Crosby, Malkin and Kovalchuk. Vanek scored 1.91 goals for every 60 minutes of ice time he got. Ovechkin, 1.85. Besides the flash and dash and crazy goals and celebrations and star power, how much better is Ovechkin, really? Has Vanek looked good to you this year? I'm not being sarcastic. When you watch his play, do you see a guy who should be playing more? To me he looks largely ineffective. You can say that Lindy has failed to inspire him, but do you agree that he looks uninspired? As for OV, Vanek's not in his league right now, IMHO. Ovechkin is a dominant force on every shift. The opponent has to be aware of him every second. Vanek's had some games like that in his career (I remember one last year vs. Atlanta), but none this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 But if he got more ice time, would that guarantee more goals? I don't know the answer to that one since the increased ice time would be dependant on situations. Anyway, that gap between Vanek and Ovechkin that you listed in incredibly small. You can't read very much into that. I think a whole helluva lot can be read into the fact that the gap is so small -- and that Ovechkin is trailing. Now I wonder if Vanek is the most efficient goal-scorer in the league. Good question about what more ice time would mean for Vanek. Give Ovechkin Vanek's ice time -- does he score 56 goals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Has Vanek looked good to you this year? I'm not being sarcastic. When you watch his play, do you see a guy who should be playing more? To me he looks largely ineffective. You can say that Lindy has failed to inspire him, but do you agree that he looks uninspired? As for OV, Vanek's not in his league right now, IMHO. Ovechkin is a dominant force on every shift. The opponent has to be aware of him every second. Vanek's had some games like that in his career (I remember one last year vs. Atlanta), but none this year. No player in the history of the league has been a dominant force on every shift. Vanek has looked like Vanek to me. I too get frustrated by the casual style he plays. You'll see it on breakaways or oddman rushes -- he'll often get caught from behind. I know he has another gear. We saw it when he split the D recently. But I find it hard to question his dedication, not when he willingly goes to the front of the net and takes a beating. I think we see a different Vanek if he has a coach who believes in him. Vanek needs to be killing penalties, he needs to be double shifted at times, he needs to be on the ice a lot when games are on the line. He needs better linemates too. Vanek can be so much more than he is, but what he is is damn good. This is a bad place for Vanek to be. As I've said, I wish either he or Lindy would go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 No player in the history of the league has been a dominant force on every shift. Vanek has looked like Vanek to me. I too get frustrated by the casual style he plays. You'll see it on breakaways or oddman rushes -- he'll often get caught from behind. I know he has another gear. We saw it when he split the D recently. But I find it hard to question his dedication, not when he willingly goes to the front of the net and takes a beating. I think we see a different Vanek if he has a coach who believes in him. Vanek needs to be killing penalties, he needs to be double shifted at times, he needs to be on the ice a lot when games are on the line. He needs better linemates too. Vanek can be so much more than he is, but what he is is damn good. This is a bad place for Vanek to be. As I've said, I wish either he or Lindy would go. I back you 95% of your opinions on Vanek. I would prefer that both Vanek and Ruff stay but Ruff starts to give Vanek the 20-25 minutes he needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlecap Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Has Vanek looked good to you this year? I'm not being sarcastic. When you watch his play, do you see a guy who should be playing more? To me he looks largely ineffective. You can say that Lindy has failed to inspire him, but do you agree that he looks uninspired? Vanek lacks the fire this year. He's a compiler type player, not a flashy hockey player like Mogilny so we shouldn't be expecting the spectacular, just like 46 goals and 20 assists or something like that at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHoppe Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 If the last few pages includes any direct questions to me, I'll try to answer them soon. Anyway, I believe Tyler Ennis has been sent back to Portland, which isn't too surprising. Can anyone else remember a hyped Sabres prospect scoring in his NHL debut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 If the last few pages includes any direct questions to me, I'll try to answer them soon. Anyway, I believe Tyler Ennis has been sent back to Portland, which isn't too surprising. Can anyone else remember a hyped Sabres prospect scoring in his NHL debut? Ray and Gare immediately spring to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Uhhh, Gilbert Perreault? :) Mogilny. http://letsgosabres....hp?newsid=10031 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Uhhh, Gilbert Perreault? :) Mogilny. http://letsgosabres....hp?newsid=10031 What about Greer (in his first stint)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 What about Greer (in his first stint)? Mike Grier, hyped Sabres prospect? :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Mike Grier, hyped Sabres prospect? :blink: You must not have read the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 What about Greer (in his first stint)? Yep, according to the media guide he had a goal and two assists in his first game as a Sabre, in Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hey Bill, why'd they tease us with just one game from Ennis? Is it because Lydman will be back on Wednesday? Would have been nice to see them give him a couple more games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hey Bill, why'd they tease us with just one game from Ennis? Is it because Lydman will be back on Wednesday? Would have been nice to see them give him a couple more games. See Tim Kennedy last year. They needed someone for one night, so they called him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHoppe Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 See Tim Kennedy last year. They needed someone for one night, so they called him up. They just needed someone for Saturday. Recalling Ennis allowed them to add a scorer and keep the lines intact instead of playing Paetsch. Ennis will be back at some point. Stafford practiced today and will return Wednesday, Lindy said. Lydman had his first "battle workout" today and should return against Florida. Grier skated with his teammates a bit but didn't go through any drills. He's still a "bit tender." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 They just needed someone for Saturday. Recalling Ennis allowed them to add a scorer and keep the lines intact instead of playing Paetsch. Ennis will be back at some point. Stafford practiced today and will return Wednesday, Lindy said. Lydman had his first "battle workout" today and should return against Florida. Grier skated with his teammates a bit but didn't go through any drills. He's still a "bit tender." Do they ever mention much about Paetsch playing up front? It's something I've never been crazy about and only want to see if it's an absolute last option, say if Portland is playing over in China or something, too far away to call someone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHoppe Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Do they ever mention much about Paetsch playing up front? It's something I've never been crazy about and only want to see if it's an absolute last option, say if Portland is playing over in China or something, too far away to call someone up. Lindy has mentioned stuff. I think he likes him up there. He said during the preseason Paetsch would have to break through as a forward early this season. He seems to be a solid forward. Ennis, however, was a better option as a replacement for Stafford on a top scoring line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Lydman had his first "battle workout" today and should return against Florida. Bill -- does that mean Sekera is going to be scratched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHoppe Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Bill -- does that mean Sekera is going to be scratched? Not sure ... but I think he would be the No. 1 candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Lindy has mentioned stuff. I think he likes him up there. He said during the preseason Paetsch would have to break through as a forward early this season. He seems to be a solid forward. Ennis, however, was a better option as a replacement for Stafford on a top scoring line. It has to be one of the stranger roster spots you'll see. I can't think of too many players who were the absolute last case emergency fill in for every position like Paetsch is right now. Only crazy injuries and a busy Portland travel schedule will get him in the lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbossy Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hey Bill, What's the word on Rivet's hand? He seems to be hurt on Sat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHoppe Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hey Bill, What's the word on Rivet's hand? He seems to be hurt on Sat. He's fine as far as I know. He practiced today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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