BillHoppe Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Bill -- here's another one for ya: what's your sense of how the players feel about Lindy? Does he have credibility/respect in their eyes? Do they believe in him and his system? Do they tune him out? Do they feel he's too critical? Do they think he makes good/bad decisions in terms of awarding ice time? Thanks. I’m sorry I didn’t reply until now … I think most players genuinely like and respect Lindy. He’s about as credible as they come. If the Sabres have a few more elite seasons and win a cup, I think Lindy could (stress: could) receive some hall-of-fame consideration. There’s a lot there. He’s had success in two different eras, really. In my opinion, he’s very fair. Players probably understand he’s done something right to stick around 12 years. He also played the game, served as a captain, played two positions, fought for 12 seasons to stick around, etc. That said, there could be a few guys who secretly dislike him. Hank Tallinder has said he was pissed at Lindy last year. I think they’re fine now. There was probably some real friction, however. Does Danny Paille like Lindy? I don’t know. But I doubt any player dumped like Paille speaks highly of his former coach. Lindy’s certain had some enemies over the years – Doug Gilmour, Slava Kozlov, Jason Woolley. There could be some in there now. Who knows? I think they believe in his system now. I know they got rocked Saturday and didn’t perform too strongly Friday, but their start has been pretty remarkable in terms of tightness and relentlessness. It’s been a tough sell, however. They certainly weren’t buying in fully the last couple of seasons. Remember, many of the Sabres arrived when the game opened up immediately after the lockout. They had success as a freewheeling team. I know the game doesn’t possess the clutching, grabbing and hooking it did before the lockout. But it’s tighter now. The game has to be played differently than it was four years ago. Lindy certainly had difficulty getting them to change. It was an incredibly hard sell. Let’s see if they can keep it up for the last 71. Do they tune him out or think he’s too critical. Some have probably tuned him out. It’s possible Paille did. I think some players, especially stubborn youngsters, have probably tuned him out for stretches. But I think players are obviously tuned in this season. Their start speaks for itself. If players had tuned out Lindy completely, he likely wouldn’t be the coach today. I think some players have thought he’s too critical. Lindy certainly has no problem saying someone isn’t playing well enough. Ryan Miller didn't like getting called out last season. Early last season, he openly wondered if Hank would ever regain his old form. That’s pretty heavy stuff to say about a guy who wasn’t even 30 then. A coach really can’t cut more to the core. Hank scoffed at Lindy. He wasn’t happy. As far as ice time goes, players are more accepting this season. I think last week Lindy said something about players “not kicking he door” if they don’t get 20 minutes. That goes hand in hand with buying into the system and maturing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHoppe Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Bill, Can you tell us your thoughts on why Lindy only give Vanek 15 minutes a game? It seems Vanek’s ice time has always lagged behind other big scorers and moneymakers. He doesn’t kill penalties, so there’s few minutes right there. I know he did at times last season. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he hasn’t this year. In fact, I think his pk time waned as last season went on. The big thing right now is the Sabres are truly rolling four lines. When that happens, no one’s going to garner big minutes. Two years ago, I would’ve told you Vanek’s ice time lagged behind other big goal scorers because he wasn’t a complete enough player. I think this year it has more to do with four lines seeing constant action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 He doesn’t kill penalties, so there’s few minutes right there. I know he did at times last season. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he hasn’t this year. In fact, I think his pk time waned as last season went on. They had a Vanek-Paille pairing at the start of last season that netted a couple early shorthanded goals. Connolly and Guastad were out though, so once they came back, those spots were gone. I want to say another penalty killer was out at the start of the year, but I can't remember the specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Bill, I just have to say you had very nice nails in that post game interview with Ryan last night. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Bill, I just have to say you had very nice nails in that post game interview with Ryan last night. :thumbsup: Creepy. Bill, just so you know... spndnchz is a dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Creepy. Bill, just so you know... spndnchz is a dude. and PA hasn't quite decided yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 and PA hasn't quite decided yet... No, I knew from the start you were pranking us. Did you wear your hoodie last night? Around your waist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbossy Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 No, I knew from the start you were pranking us. Did you wear your hoodie last night? Around your waist? I feel left out. Did I miss a coming out party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHoppe Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Thanks, everyone, I had a manicure earlier in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 It seems Vanek’s ice time has always lagged behind other big scorers and moneymakers. He doesn’t kill penalties, so there’s few minutes right there. I know he did at times last season. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he hasn’t this year. In fact, I think his pk time waned as last season went on. The big thing right now is the Sabres are truly rolling four lines. When that happens, no one’s going to garner big minutes. Two years ago, I would’ve told you Vanek’s ice time lagged behind other big goal scorers because he wasn’t a complete enough player. I think this year it has more to do with four lines seeing constant action. Vanek's even strength ice time is currently 8th among the Buffalo forwards at exactly 12 minutes a game. Are we looking at a potential problem with Vanek. He gets paid a lot of money and he's on the ice less than Tim Kennedy at even strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Vanek's even strength ice time is currently 8th among the Buffalo forwards at exactly 12 minutes a game. Are we looking at a potential problem with Vanek. He gets paid a lot of money and he's on the ice less than Tim Kennedy at even strength. If you take out the Detroit game where Vanek went out, he is fifth in ESTOI (0:50 behind leader, Grier), fourth in total TOI (1:46 behind leader Connolly) and second in PP TOI (0:03 behind leader Pominville) among forwards. The big difference in total TOI is that he isn't getting any time short handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted November 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 If you take out the Detroit game where Vanek went out, he is fifth in ESTOI (0:50 behind leader, Grier), fourth in total TOI (1:46 behind leader Connolly) and second in PP TOI (0:03 behind leader Pominville) among forwards. The big difference in total TOI is that he isn't getting any time short handed. Why do you have to take the wind out of a perfectly mindless rant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Why do you have to take the wind out of a perfectly mindless rant? Right. A six-million dollar player in small-market Buffalo is 179th in ice time for forwards. Got 11 minutes the other night. Has scored 150 goals since the lockout and was a plus-47 one year, leading Lindy to surmise that he could be the top two-way player in the league. Scored two shorthanded goals the first 10 games last year, didn't hurt the PK a bit, but had that SH ice time taken from him, and is not currently killing penalties. Vanek said he never understood why he was taken off the PK, made a curious comment on his own web site over the summer praising the Penguins' in-season coaching change and said "that's great if it happens" to Ruff's comment about him getting "elite ice time" this year. Yeah, there's no story here. Move along. You should be a beat writer covering the Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Right. A six-million dollar player in small-market Buffalo is 179th in ice time for forwards. Got 11 minutes the other night. Has scored 150 goals since the lockout and was a plus-47 one year, leading Lindy to surmise that he could be the top two-way player in the league. Scored two shorthanded goals the first 10 games last year, didn't hurt the PK a bit, but had that SH ice time taken from him, and is not currently killing penalties. Vanek said he never understood why he was taken off the PK, made a curious comment on his own web site over the summer praising the Penguins' in-season coaching change and said "that's great if it happens" to Ruff's comment about him getting "elite ice time" this year. Yeah, there's no story here. Move along. You should be a beat writer covering the Sabres. :) But doesn't he make 7 million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 If you take out the Detroit game where Vanek went out, he is fifth in ESTOI (0:50 behind leader, Grier), fourth in total TOI (1:46 behind leader Connolly) and second in PP TOI (0:03 behind leader Pominville) among forwards. The big difference in total TOI is that he isn't getting any time short handed. Why take out the Detroit game? He was injured 12:46 of the second. Of the 32:46 Vanek was only on the ice 7:54. Even with your fluffed up stats, why is your big ticket offensive forward fifth in ESTOI? The Sabres are currently 17th in the league in goals per game and falling quickly. You can't limit Vanek to being a power play specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Right. A six-million dollar player in small-market Buffalo is 179th in ice time for forwards. Got 11 minutes the other night. Has scored 150 goals since the lockout and was a plus-47 one year, leading Lindy to surmise that he could be the top two-way player in the league. Scored two shorthanded goals the first 10 games last year, didn't hurt the PK a bit, but had that SH ice time taken from him, and is not currently killing penalties. Vanek said he never understood why he was taken off the PK, made a curious comment on his own web site over the summer praising the Penguins' in-season coaching change and said "that's great if it happens" to Ruff's comment about him getting "elite ice time" this year. Yeah, there's no story here. Move along. You should be a beat writer covering the Sabres. Which is why I posed the question. I've never met Vanek. I will assume he is human and is getting frustrated. I fear at one point this season or maybe after the season we will be reading about a trade request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Which is why I posed the question. I've never met Vanek. I will assume he is human and is getting frustrated. I fear at one point this season or maybe after the season we will be reading about a trade request. If it hasn't already been made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 :) But doesn't he make 7 million? 6.4, I just read. We'll split the difference. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Which is why I posed the question. I've never met Vanek. I will assume he is human and is getting frustrated. I fear at one point this season or maybe after the season we will be reading about a trade request. The team has been committed to rolling 4 lines, Which will keep the team healthier longer in the long run. His linemate Roy averages 3 more shifts a game only because he is on the PK. This team won't make the playoffs shorting the bench this early in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 The team has been committed to rolling 4 lines, Which will keep the team healthier longer in the long run. His linemate Roy averages 3 more shifts a game only because he is on the PK. This team won't make the playoffs shorting the bench this early in the season. This isn't an issue for October and November 2009. Vanek's ice time has been suppressed his whole career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 The team has been committed to rolling 4 lines, Which will keep the team healthier longer in the long run. His linemate Roy averages 3 more shifts a game only because he is on the PK. This team won't make the playoffs shorting the bench this early in the season. This team doesn't have enough offensive talent to limit the ice time of those that do. Is this the worst conditioned team in the NHL? First we have to rest Miller in OCTOBER so he doesn't burn out and now there is a need to limit the ice time of the few players on this team with offensive talent in fear of burning them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 This isn't an issue for October and November 2009. Vanek's ice time has been suppressed his whole career. Suppressed! Repressed! Tied down! Held back! Harassed by the man! It's prejudice! It's unfair! It's an irrational fear of playing rookies (that somehow doesn't apply to Myers or Kennedy)! It's obvious that Vanek is as good as Ovechkin! Lindy's just being mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Suppressed! Repressed! Tied down! Held back! Harassed by the man! It's prejudice! It's unfair! It's an irrational fear of playing rookies (that somehow doesn't apply to Myers or Kennedy)! It's obvious that Vanek is as good as Ovechkin! Lindy's just being mean! Myers and Kennedy don't have the offensive talent Vanek does. The issue, IMO, is that Lindy can't relate to Vanek and doesn't how to coach him. Vanek is regressing, Roy and Pominville have seemed to have leveled off. Lindy has to be responsible for a little of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Myers and Kennedy don't have the offensive talent Vanek does. The issue, IMO, is that Lindy can't relate to Vanek and doesn't how to coach him. Vanek is regressing, Roy and Pominville have seemed to have leveled off. Lindy has to be responsible for a little of that. Lindy held responsible for something? Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Myers and Kennedy don't have the offensive talent Vanek does. The issue, IMO, is that Lindy can't relate to Vanek and doesn't how to coach him. Vanek is regressing, Roy and Pominville have seemed to have leveled off. Lindy has to be responsible for a little of that. Was there ever a possibility that Roy and Pommer were going to become 90-pt guys? Roy is 5'8". 70-80 pts would seem to be a pretty good range for him. And Pommer is a pretty good all-around player who weighs 178 lbs, can't really create his own offense and will probably get something in the neighborhood of 25-45-70 this year. Is that far from his ceiling? As for Vanek, I'd be much happier if he were at 19-20 minutes per game too -- but I'd be happy because he'd only be getting that much ice time if he were playing well enough to justify it. You and PAFan seem to think that it has to be Lindy's fault that Vanek is struggling, and if Lindy would only open up his heart/mind/other and give Vanek more minutes, all would be well. I just don't agree with that view. I've seen Vanek have maybe one or two strong games this year. The rest of the time, he's just another guy out there. Isn't it possible that he's young, cocky, stinking rich and of the view that everything has always come easily to him, and this will too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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