LQ says "Success Comes From Within"

[shrader]

meh... I didn't think so.

 

When were all those guys traded for? Before or after the salary cap? I don't think it is as simple as people make it out to be anymore. There are serious repercussions to any any trading team today that didn't exist back then.

 

Exactly. Brian Burke seems to be the GM that everyone is always talking about. Just look at the comments he has made several times about how the cap hurts the trade market. He's saying it, so it's obviously not just a Darcy Regier/small market thing.

[PASabreFan]

meh... I didn't think so.

 

When were all those guys traded for? Before or after the salary cap? I don't think it is as simple as people make it out to be anymore. There are serious repercussions to any any trading team today that didn't exist back then.

 

The "meh" thing gets on my nerves. Are you sure you're OK?

[PASabreFan]

meh... I didn't think so.

 

When were all those guys traded for? Before or after the salary cap? I don't think it is as simple as people make it out to be anymore. There are serious repercussions to any any trading team today that didn't exist back then.

 

What repercussions?

 

Darcy has said trades are still possible, but maybe more in the context of two teams trading long-term contracts. "Teams needing a different player."

 

I don't buy the notion trades are out of the arsenal of GMs in the salary cap era. Didn't seem to stop Ray Shero at the deadline.

[R_Dudley]

The "meh" thing gets on my nerves. Are you sure you're OK?

 

Oh Yeah that cements it,,, he's fine... :thumbsup:

[deluca67]

Sure, but the core of these teams are built from the draft. They'll add a Kunitz, or a Guerin, or a Hossa, but when it comes down to it, if you take away the players that they drafted and developed, they'd be in trouble.

 

Those teams aren't builiding like Tampa or even Philadelphia and New York, throwing money at FAs and making short-sighted trades.

I wouldn't say they haven't drafted well, their hits and misses are probably on-par with the rest of the league. The problem is that they haven't addressed the gaps in the lineup well enough through other outlets like the draft and FA.

 

The mistake they've made is that they gambled too much on the current roster being able to fill those gaps. It's burned them and they need to change this approach.

If this was the 2005 offseason, I'd completely agree with you. But then the guys who you claim know nothing about hockey made some minor moves and the Sabres set the franchise record for wins, and was a distasterous string of injuries away from winning the Cup.

 

That's not to say the current team doesn't need to make some moves. Regier needs to make another Drury trade to bring in leadership. The team needs to cut dead weight like they did with Satan and Zhitnik. Ruff needs to adjust his coaching according to the shifts being made in the way the game is called like he did coming out of the lockout.

 

So I have a hard time believing that the current management team knows as little as many claim about building a winning team. No doubt they need to adjust their approach, but they've done it before.

They built a "winning team" that had a shelf life of about 16 months. That seems more like catching lightning in a bottle than it does building a winning team. To followup that "winning" with back to back uninspired 10th place finishes really reflects poorly on how well that "winning team" was built. The work, or lack there of, this management has/has not done over the past 24 months is disappointing to say the least.

 

There is an air of arrogance with this management team that quite frankly they haven't earned. They come across at times like they think they have built a perennial Cup contender when what they have is a perennial 10th place team. The sooner that realization hits the HSBC the quicker the turn around can happen. To give the Sabres some credit, using the !st pick to address toughness is a great sign. Using the early picks shows it has become a priority compared to previous years despite the assertions of some on this board.

 

I do hope the Sabres followup the draft with an aggressive approach to free agency and the trade market. Maybe then success can be generated from within. From within the front office.

[deluca67]

What repercussions?

 

Darcy has said trades are still possible, but maybe more in the context of two teams trading long-term contracts. "Teams needing a different player."

 

I don't buy the notion trades are out of the arsenal of GMs in the salary cap era. Didn't seem to stop Ray Shero at the deadline.

And it's not going to stop other GM's as well. I'm getting the sinking feeling that the Flyers trade for Pronger is going to set off a chain reaction with other Eastern Conference teams. An arms race they will leave the Sabres sitting on the sidelines wondering what happened. Again!

[X. Benedict]

And it's not going to stop other GM's as well. I'm getting the sinking feeling that the Flyers trade for Pronger is going to set off a chain reaction with other Eastern Conference teams. An arms race they will leave the Sabres sitting on the sidelines wondering what happened. Again!

 

We'll see what happens to Pronger.

I wonder if he gets a 12 year deal after this when he is a UFA.

 

Pronger didn't give the immediate impression that he was pleased with the deal.

 

http://csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Flye...&feedID=704

[SDS]

The "meh" thing gets on my nerves. Are you sure you're OK?

 

what noise do you want me to make? ;)

[deluca67]

We'll see what happens to Pronger.

I wonder if he gets a 12 year deal after this when he is a UFA.

 

Pronger didn't give the immediate impression that he was pleased with the deal.

 

http://csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Flye...&feedID=704

An angry Chris Pronger looking to cash in big in free agency doesn't make me feel any better. :wallbash:

[spndnchz]

what noise do you want me to make? ;)

Everything alright? I told you that it was okay, it happens to everyone.

[X. Benedict]

An angry Chris Pronger looking to cash in big in free agency doesn't make me feel any better. :wallbash:

 

I just wonder about his long term prospects in Philly is all.

[nfreeman]

Great point.

 

We can slice this up any way we want, but the irrefutable fact is that you have do all of the above well. Draft. Develop. Free agency. Trades, offseason, in season and at the deadline. You have to take every opportunity to build your team.

 

In the six years of the Golisano Era, the Sabres have made two significant free agent signings: Numminen and Spacek. They've acquired five significant players in trades: Briere, Drury, Grier, Lydman and Rivet. Only two of those significant moves have come in the three years since the Sabres appeared to be on the verge of a Cup.

 

Mighty thin gruel for those who say there's any plan whatsoever in place and being executed to bring a Stanley Cup to Buffalo.

I agree that all of the above are necessary to have a contender. I will point out though that Zubrus was a good deadline pickup for the playoff run in 06-07. His injury against the Rangers was a big blow.

 

I don't buy the notion trades are out of the arsenal of GMs in the salary cap era. Didn't seem to stop Ray Shero at the deadline.

Correct. It is more difficult now, but there is and will continue to be plenty of action.

 

And it's not going to stop other GM's as well. I'm getting the sinking feeling that the Flyers trade for Pronger is going to set off a chain reaction with other Eastern Conference teams. An arms race they will leave the Sabres sitting on the sidelines wondering what happened. Again!

Well, other teams will make moves, but there are only 3-4 teams in the EC who can afford to participate in that kind of arms race -- Rangers, Habs, Leafs and Philly. Philly is now out of commission, but I'd expect the other 3 -- and ONLY those 3 -- to take shots at Boumeester, Hossa and/or the Sedins.

[jad1]

They built a "winning team" that had a shelf life of about 16 months. That seems more like catching lightning in a bottle than it does building a winning team. To followup that "winning" with back to back uninspired 10th place finishes really reflects poorly on how well that "winning team" was built. The work, or lack there of, this management has/has not done over the past 24 months is disappointing to say the least.

 

We're all Sabre fans here, so we're all guilty of naval gazing, but what the Sabres are experiencing isn't so far removed from a general league trend.

 

Tampa was only 3 season removed from winning the Cup when they earned the first pick in the draft. Carolina missed the playoffs two years in a row after winning the Cup. Edmonton hasn't been to the playoffs since playing in the Finals. Calgary hasn't been able to replicate its success of being a Western Conference finalist before the strike.

 

Detroit and Pittsburgh have bucked the recent trend. Detroit is built to a large degree on its ability to mine talent from Sweden. Pittsburgh is built on top five draft picks.

 

Again, no disagreement that the Sabres results the last two seasons are disappointing, but their failure is not unique to the organization. Understanding that does little to ease our frustration, but it does show that they are dealing with a problem that is, in part, cyclical.

 

There is an air of arrogance with this management team that quite frankly they haven't earned. They come across at times like they think they have built a perennial Cup contender when what they have is a perennial 10th place team. The sooner that realization hits the HSBC the quicker the turn around can happen. To give the Sabres some credit, using the !st pick to address toughness is a great sign. Using the early picks shows it has become a priority compared to previous years despite the assertions of some on this board.

 

I do hope the Sabres followup the draft with an aggressive approach to free agency and the trade market. Maybe then success can be generated from within. From within the front office.

 

Instead of personalizing it by using terms like arrogance, I look at the gamble that the team made when Drury left the organization to build on its existing talent to understand what went wrong. It wasn't a bad gamble, the Sabres were a young team with two division championships and long playoff runs under their belts. The team had reason to believe that Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Hecht, or even Tallinder or Lydman would step up and fill in the leadership gap left by Drury.

 

Their gamble failed to pay off. It's a mistake that needs to be addressed, but I don't know if counting on your young players to mature into leaders is an act of arrogance; Detroit, New Jersey, and Pittsburgh followed the same plan and it worked for them.

[deluca67]

Well, other teams will make moves, but there are only 3-4 teams in the EC who can afford to participate in that kind of arms race -- Rangers, Habs, Leafs and Philly. Philly is now out of commission, but I'd expect the other 3 -- and ONLY those 3 -- to take shots at Boumeester, Hossa and/or the Sedins.

For the sake of argument let's concede playoffs spots to Pittsburgh, Washington, Boston, Philly & New Jersey next season. That leaves only 3 playoff spots. If even one of those teams is successful in free agency it really hurts the Sabres chances going into the playoffs next season unless the Sabres front office gets into the game.

[PASabreFan]

We'll see what happens to Pronger.

I wonder if he gets a 12 year deal after this when he is a UFA.

 

Pronger didn't give the immediate impression that he was pleased with the deal.

 

http://csnphilly.com/pages/landing_09?Flye...&feedID=704

 

I quickly read that but didn't see any quotes that would give that impression. Perhaps you are flashing back to Craig Rivet when he heard he had been traded to Buffalo.

[darksabre]

We're all Sabre fans here, so we're all guilty of naval gazing, but what the Sabres are experiencing isn't so far removed from a general league trend.

 

Tampa was only 3 season removed from winning the Cup when they earned the first pick in the draft. Carolina missed the playoffs two years in a row after winning the Cup. Edmonton hasn't been to the playoffs since playing in the Finals. Calgary hasn't been able to replicate its success of being a Western Conference finalist before the strike.

 

Detroit and Pittsburgh have bucked the recent trend. Detroit is built to a large degree on its ability to mine talent from Sweden. Pittsburgh is built on top five draft picks.

 

Again, no disagreement that the Sabres results the last two seasons are disappointing, but their failure is not unique to the organization. Understanding that does little to ease our frustration, but it does show that they are dealing with a problem that is, in part, cyclical.

Instead of personalizing it by using terms like arrogance, I look at the gamble that the team made when Drury left the organization to build on its existing talent to understand what went wrong. It wasn't a bad gamble, the Sabres were a young team with two division championships and long playoff runs under their belts. The team had reason to believe that Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Hecht, or even Tallinder or Lydman would step up and fill in the leadership gap left by Drury.

 

Their gamble failed to pay off. It's a mistake that needs to be addressed, but I don't know if counting on your young players to mature into leaders is an act of arrogance; Detroit, New Jersey, and Pittsburgh followed the same plan and it worked for them.

 

Solid post. I don't really need to add anything because this is pretty much how I feel about our situation. We gambled on what should have been a solid bet, and we lost. Now we've gotta get back up out of this hole because if we stay here too long, bad things will happen for this franchise.

[deluca67]

We're all Sabre fans here, so we're all guilty of naval gazing, but what the Sabres are experiencing isn't so far removed from a general league trend.

 

Tampa was only 3 season removed from winning the Cup when they earned the first pick in the draft. Carolina missed the playoffs two years in a row after winning the Cup. Edmonton hasn't been to the playoffs since playing in the Finals. Calgary hasn't been able to replicate its success of being a Western Conference finalist before the strike.

 

Detroit and Pittsburgh have bucked the recent trend. Detroit is built to a large degree on its ability to mine talent from Sweden. Pittsburgh is built on top five draft picks.

 

Again, no disagreement that the Sabres results the last two seasons are disappointing, but their failure is not unique to the organization. Understanding that does little to ease our frustration, but it does show that they are dealing with a problem that is, in part, cyclical.

Instead of personalizing it by using terms like arrogance, I look at the gamble that the team made when Drury left the organization to build on its existing talent to understand what went wrong. It wasn't a bad gamble, the Sabres were a young team with two division championships and long playoff runs under their belts. The team had reason to believe that Roy, Vanek, Stafford, Hecht, or even Tallinder or Lydman would step up and fill in the leadership gap left by Drury.

 

Their gamble failed to pay off. It's a mistake that needs to be addressed, but I don't know if counting on your young players to mature into leaders is an act of arrogance; Detroit, New Jersey, and Pittsburgh followed the same plan and it worked for them.

You can call it a "gamble." I see it a s a lack for foresight and overvaluing their own players which is becoming a disturbing and harmful trend. Why did they have "reason to believe" leadership was coming from this locker room? Looking at the roster and the Sabres decision leaves me shaking my head.

[jad1]

Great point.

 

We can slice this up any way we want, but the irrefutable fact is that you have do all of the above well. Draft. Develop. Free agency. Trades, offseason, in season and at the deadline. You have to take every opportunity to build your team.

 

In the six years of the Golisano Era, the Sabres have made two significant free agent signings: Numminen and Spacek. They've acquired five significant players in trades: Briere, Drury, Grier, Lydman and Rivet. Only two of those significant moves have come in the three years since the Sabres appeared to be on the verge of a Cup.

 

Mighty thin gruel for those who say there's any plan whatsoever in place and being executed to bring a Stanley Cup to Buffalo.

 

Having a plan and executing that plan are two separate things. I would agree, and have mentioned before, that Sabres management has been slow in recent to recognize the gaps in their lineup and address them through FA, trades, or even waivers.

 

Two seasons ago, the Sabres had a core of young players who had won two division championships and gone deep in the playoffs. Management decided to invest in those players, and as it turned out, they invested in them too heavily.

 

No doubt, it was a mistake, and it needs to be addressed.

[X. Benedict]

I quickly read that but didn't see any quotes that would give that impression. Perhaps you are flashing back to Craig Rivet when he heard he had been traded to Buffalo.

 

He was traded 1 year before UFA status...(quite different from Rivet in that respect)...so he has the cards here in any negotiating posture. "happy" was probably not the right word....he said nothing to give the impression that this is a long term arrangement.

 

Philly could very well wrap him up long term, but he didn't come with a pre-negotiated extension.

[jad1]

You can call it a "gamble." I see it a s a lack for foresight and overvaluing their own players which is becoming a disturbing and harmful trend. Why did they have "reason to believe" leadership was coming from this locker room? Looking at the roster and the Sabres decision leaves me shaking my head.

 

I agree with you. The gamble failed. To me, the failure of guys like Roy, Gaustad, and Pomminstein to step up to lead the team has been the biggest problem for the team.

 

Maybe that was hard to see two seasons ago, but last offseason it was evident that these guys weren't ready, willing, or able to step up into that role.

 

I was hoping that Rivet last season could bring some accountability to the locker room, but that really didn't work out.

 

No doubt this is a failure of management. Maybe they're just waiting on these guys to mature. Maybe their biggest fault is patience, instead of arrogance. Who knows, but it needs to be addressed.

[wonderbread]

He was traded 1 year before UFA status...(quite different from Rivet in that respect)...so he has the cards here in any negotiating posture. "happy" was probably not the right word....he said nothing to give the impression that this is a long term arrangement.

 

Philly could very well wrap him up long term, but he didn't come with a pre-negotiated extension.

 

 

During the interview Clip on the right he specific that he would be interested in finishing his career in philly. Not that means anything.

[SwampD]

Having a plan and executing that plan are two separate things. I would agree, and have mentioned before, that Sabres management has been slow in recent to recognize the gaps in their lineup and address them through FA, trades, or even waivers.

 

Two seasons ago, the Sabres had a core of young players who had won two division championships and gone deep in the playoffs. Management decided to invest in those players, and as it turned out, they invested in them too heavily.

 

No doubt, it was a mistake, and it needs to be addressed.

I just don't understand why you give them such a pass. You sound like my grandma,"Oh, the poor dears. They failed, but they tried so hard. Here, have a butterscotch candy"

 

You would think that after 12 years they would have figured it out by now.

 

There is just no accountability on anyone's part. I went back and re-read the article that started this post. Here is the subtext of what I hear going on in LQ's head as he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth when he says the success comes from within..."Well, I did my part, so did Darcy, now it's up to the players. If we don't win now then, well, it's their fault not ours. We did all we could it just didn't work out for us. Maybe in the next 12 years we can make it happen"

[shrader]

I just don't understand why you give them such a pass. You sound like my grandma,"Oh, the poor dears. They failed, but they tried so hard. Here, have a butterscotch candy"

 

You would think that after 12 years they would have figured it out by now.

 

There is just no accountability on anyone's part. I went back and re-read the article that started this post. Here is the subtext of what I hear going on in LQ's head as he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth when he says the success comes from within..."Well, I did my part, so did Darcy, now it's up to the players. If we don't win now then, well, it's their fault not ours. We did all we could it just didn't work out for us. Maybe in the next 12 years we can make it happen"

 

They've had 4 years. You can't ignore the major change brought on with the new CBA.

[SwampD]

They've had 4 years. You can't ignore the major change brought on with the new CBA.

I can't but, boy, I sure hope we eventually run out of excuses and actually hold someone accountable.

[SDS]

I just don't understand why you give them such a pass. You sound like my grandma,"Oh, the poor dears. They failed, but they tried so hard. Here, have a butterscotch candy"

 

You would think that after 12 years they would have figured it out by now.

 

There is just no accountability on anyone's part. I went back and re-read the article that started this post. Here is the subtext of what I hear going on in LQ's head as he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth when he says the success comes from within..."Well, I did my part, so did Darcy, now it's up to the players. If we don't win now then, well, it's their fault not ours. We did all we could it just didn't work out for us. Maybe in the next 12 years we can make it happen"

 

How many teams have failed to win the Cup in the last 12 years?