carpandean Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Here's another thought on Kalinin: should we have dumped him at the deadline? If Pittsburgh gave up a 2nd and a 5th for Hal Gill, I could easily see equal-to-better compensation coming to the Sabres from a playoff team looking to pick up an experienced defenseman for the playoff drive. Darcy must have known this was going to be the decision, so why not get a pick or two out of it? I suppose the answer is that he knew that we were probably going to lose Campbell, and dumping Kalinin at that point would have left us with a top 6 of Tallinder, Lydman, Spacek, Pratt, Sekera and Weber (although I think Spacek was injured at the time, so Paetsch would have been in for him). I know most here think losing Kalinin at that point would've been no great loss, but that probably would have felt like we were throwing in the towel on the season -- and we were still very much in the race for a playoff spot. You are assuming that he didn't try. Maybe everyone who wanted somebody like that got who they needed elsewhere. I doubt that their concern was with not having a defense left if both he and Campbell were traded. If you remember, the Sabres called up Sekera to play while Kalinin was a healthy scratch (March 4; even Paetsch played). Unfortunately, that was the game where Tallinder got hurt, so he had to come back into the lineup. Clearly, they knew he was gone at the deadline and didn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 very bold prediction. Did you see some of the guys playing D in the NHL this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristian Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Wow, we differ here. IMO, Kalinin's biggest drawback is that he was trained by Zhitnik. But I've no problem with Orpik or Liles; a do-nothing D-man who can hit is better than a do-nothing D-man who can't. Or a do-nothing d-man who won't. Did anyone say Tallydman .... ?? :wallbash: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I can see Liles coming in for a lower price tag than he may expect with his ties to miller. Still might have to pay him close to 3 a year. I wouldn't mind that price for him over Kalinin. As for Orpik, same as everyone else, would love to see it, but the price tag is probably gonna be too steep. Bottom line is that in almost all cases, the player ends up where the money is the greatest amount. It doesn't matter who they are friends with or where their hometown is. So according to you, Liles may end up here because of his ties with Miller, but Orpik who is a hometown kid, has no chance of ending up with the Sabres? :blink: Like I said, it is all about the greenbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sloth Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Bottom line is that in almost all cases, the player ends up where the money is the greatest amount. It doesn't matter who they are friends with or where their hometown is. So according to you, Liles may end up here because of his ties with Miller, but Orpik who is a hometown kid, has no chance of ending up with the Sabres? :blink: Like I said, it is all about the greenbacks. I hate it when that happens. A guy could have a chance to play in his hometown and be on the team he loved before joining the NHL. But, when money plays a role and the team that is paying the money to keep a player in town, the player often becomes attached to that team and town. If Patrick Kane is in Chicago for 10+ years, he could possibly lose the love he may still have for the Sabres. I think Jim Kelly is a great example. I was only 4 when he was drafted, but the guy did not want to come to Buffalo so bad he played in the USFL (I think thats the name). Now, he loves the city of Buffalo and he wants to help keep the Bills in Buffalo. Money can get a guy to fall in love w/ the city he is playing in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Why am I picturing a defence that consists of Lydman/Tallinder, Spacek/Teppo (or Pratt), Weber/Sekera, with Paestch as the #7? I really don't know if this is a move to free up a roster spot for them to go after a UFA defencemen, or just clear a small logjam to bring up Weber/Sekera full time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I would like to see Weber and Sekera full time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 Why am I picturing a defence that consists of Lydman/Tallinder, Spacek/Teppo (or Pratt), Weber/Sekera, with Paestch as the #7? I really don't know if this is a move to free up a roster spot for them to go after a UFA defencemen, or just clear a small logjam to bring up Weber/Sekera full time based on what Darcy said the other day, I think he may (MAY) actually make a move ... in the Buffalo News talking about the draft and possible moves: ?It doesn?t mean we may not add or move something. I think positionally we?ll look at, I mean, we?ve got a lot of forwards. That gives us some flexibility. We?ll look at our defense and see if we can help there.? link - http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/361374.html?imw=Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I would like to see Weber and Sekera full time. I want to see Weber as the #8. We have to remember he has only one season of professional hockey under his belt. Ideally, they would add a few bodies to the blueline. Being 8th on the depth chart, he's playing every single night down in Portland and is essentially guaranteed to see good time in the NHL thanks to injuries. With the one extra year, Sekera should be ready for full time duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted June 4, 2008 Report Share Posted June 4, 2008 I want to see Weber as the #8. We have to remember he has only one season of professional hockey under his belt. Ideally, they would add a few bodies to the blueline. Being 8th on the depth chart, he's playing every single night down in Portland and is essentially guaranteed to see good time in the NHL thanks to injuries. With the one extra year, Sekera should be ready for full time duty. Ideally yes, we need to add a blueliner. I'd agree that having either one of these boys (S&W) sitting in the press box watching the game will not help them develop into better players. I'd be comfortable, if push came to shove, seeing Sekera and Weber paired up and playing in the NHL full time. The key word I think is PLAY, here or in Portland. Last year IMO Paestch's performance was hindered by sitting too much. I don't want to see that happen with S&W. These two are the NOW and later for the Sabres, give 'em a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Here's my 2 cents: 1. Kalinin will be in the NHL next year, almost certainly in someone's top 4. 2. There is no way we are going to sign Orpik. He's going to cost at least $4 million per year, and probably more. The Sabres don't make splashy UFA signings. They also need to save their cash for Miller, Pommer, and their gaggle of RFAs. I like Orpik and would love to see him in a Sabres uniform, but it ain't happening. 3. I do think we are going to add 2 defensemen. One will be Teppo and the other will be whoever we get in trade for one or more of our forwards. 4. Finally: Detroit's defense is what the Sabres' D aspired to be in 05-06 -- mobile, smart, positional, crisp-passing, and not big-hitting except for one guy (Kronwall for Detroit and McKee for the Sabres). Obviously, Detroit's D is pretty close to the pinnacle of this type of defense approach, and we had no one in Lidstrom's league, but as a group our D was in the ballpark that year. Great post again. It scares me that our team which didn't make the playoffs is already maxed out on signing the players we already have. I guess that's how it works building with youth, but it still scares me. I'm all for signing Teppo. He is no guarantee, but I'd give him a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFanInRochester Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Great post again. It scares me that our team which didn't make the playoffs is already maxed out on signing the players we already have. I guess that's how it works building with youth, but it still scares me. I'm all for signing Teppo. He is no guarantee, but I'd give him a chance. I agree. There is depth of average d-men, but I would like to see Teppo come back. I don't know if Buffalo would pull the trigger for a top 2 d-man, but if they do, I see Spacek pairing with that d-man, Lydman and Tallinder as the next pair, and Sekera with Teppo/Pratt. I think Teppo and Pratt could be a nice stable anchor to Sekera and allow him to be a little more aggressive with the puck. If they don't acquire someone for the defense, then I think we are in a similar situation to this past season where you are asking your top line to do too much against a amply skilled opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 4. Finally: Detroit's defense is what the Sabres' D aspired to be in 05-06 -- mobile, smart, positional, crisp-passing, and not big-hitting except for one guy (Kronwall for Detroit and McKee for the Sabres). Obviously, Detroit's D is pretty close to the pinnacle of this type of defense approach, and we had no one in Lidstrom's league, but as a group our D was in the ballpark that year. I think I missed this. Great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Teppo would be a great 7th defenseman. Unfortunately, if they did bring him back, they'd probably be expecting more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneGibbous Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 There is no way we are going to sign Orpik. He's going to cost at least $4 million per year, and probably more. 4 million? I don't think he's worth even close to that. $2.5-3 maybe. sounds like another Jay McKee flop deal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I agree. There is depth of average d-men, but I would like to see Teppo come back. I don't know if Buffalo would pull the trigger for a top 2 d-man, but if they do, I see Spacek pairing with that d-man, Lydman and Tallinder as the next pair, and Sekera with Teppo/Pratt. I think Teppo and Pratt could be a nice stable anchor to Sekera and allow him to be a little more aggressive with the puck. If they don't acquire someone for the defense, then I think we are in a similar situation to this past season where you are asking your top line to do too much against a amply skilled opponent. I really like these pairings, except for the part about Pratt. I'd be very happy with Teppo & Reggie as our 3rd pairing, with Pratt or Paetsch as #7. And I'd prefer the #7 to be Paestch because while Pratt is OK for what he is, he's very limited, and I'd like to see Paetsch, who went sideways last year, step up a bit and make it clear that he's better than Pratt. 4 million? I don't think he's worth even close to that. $2.5-3 maybe. sounds like another Jay McKee flop deal to me. Well, you might be right about what he's worth in the abstract, but he's a UFA in a league where the cap is going up by another $5 million, and he's coming off a finals appearance in which he played on Pittsburgh's top D pairing and laid out plenty of big hits. It only takes 1 GM to make a dumb offer. Do you not see him getting a $4MM-plus offer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I really like these pairings, except for the part about Pratt. I'd be very happy with Teppo & Reggie as our 3rd pairing, with Pratt or Paetsch as #7. And I'd prefer the #7 to be Paestch because while Pratt is OK for what he is, he's very limited, and I'd like to see Paetsch, who went sideways last year, step up a bit and make it clear that he's better than Pratt.Well, you might be right about what he's worth in the abstract, but he's a UFA in a league where the cap is going up by another $5 million, and he's coming off a finals appearance in which he played on Pittsburgh's top D pairing and laid out plenty of big hits. It only takes 1 GM to make a dumb offer. Do you not see him getting a $4MM-plus offer? I think most of the time Orpik was on the second pairing. For the Finals he had- 28 blocked shots, 40 hits, -5, 5 SOG, 0pts. 8 PIM. I think he'll pull 4 million. Is he worth it? Hard to say. The body breaks down playing that style. You can't expect him to bring Stanley Cup physicality every night. But it would be nice to have when it counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I think most of the time Orpik was on the second pairing. For the Finals he had- 28 blocked shots, 40 hits, -5, 5 SOG, 0pts. 8 PIM. I think he'll pull 4 million. Is he worth it? Hard to say. The body breaks down playing that style. You can't expect him to bring Stanley Cup physicality every night. But it would be nice to have when it counts. You're probably right. I just remember seeing him paired with Gonchar a few times and thinking that he must have been promoted to top pairing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Bottom line is that in almost all cases, the player ends up where the money is the greatest amount. It doesn't matter who they are friends with or where their hometown is. So according to you, Liles may end up here because of his ties with Miller, but Orpik who is a hometown kid, has no chance of ending up with the Sabres? :blink: Like I said, it is all about the greenbacks. Not saying its not possible. I just feel like if they are going to go after both of them its going to be one or the other. If they can lock them both up, that would be great, just not sure if the FO has what it takes to get these deals done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FogBat Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 I have to wonder if Lindy had a say about Kalinin's ouster from the Sabres. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised at all. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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