Sabres announce qualifying offers

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

Fine for Ottawa to be roster balancing. But --- who initiates the trade.

The Sabres are looking to trade Cozens. Fine. But that's not required to be at the trade deadline. They're not going anywhere; he doesn't have a NTC/NMC kick in for 2 more years. Ruff could've just moved him to 3rd line wing, but he also wasn't showcasing Cozens between Benson & Thompson for a trade.

On the other hand, Ottawa wants to move Norris. They need a more physical player for the playoffs. The NEED someone who will be healthy and available going into the playoffs (Norris already has his ---oblique?--- strain).

Norris is a better overall player than Cozens right now, but is he a 3-for-1 trade better than Cozens if Cozens reaches his potential, or is at least moved from center to wing? Adams wasn't operating from a place of need in that trade; Ottawa was. Why was Adams the one feeding in the 2nd?

***** man, Im struggling to figure out JBD’s non-qualifier.

Now you want me to figure out Kevyn Adams?

[Taro T]

59 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Possible scenario:

Sabres: OK, I’m going to offer you Cozens, Gilbert and a 2nd.

Ottawa: value seems fair, but we’re looking at other moves and need to save space under the 50 contract limit (or the 23-man roster, or the cap, etc.)

Sabres: well we could use another D to play out the season, but it has to be an expiring contract.

Ottawa: what about Docker, he’s the odd man out now with Gilbert coming in.

Sabres: minimum wage guy, right? Sure, let’s do it.

And THIS is one of the things that's maddening about being a Sabres fan.  They NEVER alter their plans on the fly.  Going back to Regier at least.  Hey we brought in Zubrus to help with the playoff run and then cut loose as we'll have Drury and possibly Briere in the fall and we don't need him as a 3C.  Oh, Drury and Briere BOTH left so we have NO experienced true veteran centers on the roster.  OK, well no point in making an offer to Zubrus.

Hey, Bernard-Docker was just a cheap throw-in but he plays REALLY well with Power.  That's niiiicccce.  Doesn't change our minds about whether to keep him or not, but it's nice.

[SabresBillsFan]

Hey Adams it’s time to make some moves!

[DarthEbriate]

Adams' next move is to wait until 7/5 for Byram, McLeod, and Timmins to file for arbitration if they haven't already been traded.

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Adams' next move is to wait until 7/5 for Byram, McLeod, and Timmins to file for arbitration if they haven't already been traded.

Well, you could hit on 2 of those.

And 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

[LGR4GM]

Adams says that they let Docker walk because they slotted him at 8 and that Johnson, Rathbone, and Zac Jones are young and they just didn't think it was a fit. 

It was honestly one of the stupidest things I have heard. He even mentioned JBD projected salary. Just not a smart guy and very one dimensional in how he thinks.

[LGR4GM]

Adams claims the arbitration award for JBD would have been too much for the 8th defender... the MOFO signed for 875 in Detroit. 

[LGR4GM]

The implication of the "8th defender" comment means that Kevyn Adams thinks Jacob Bryson is the 7th defender on the Sabres. Just utterly stupid. 

[Taro T]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The implication of the "8th defender" comment means that Kevyn Adams thinks Jacob Bryson is the 7th defender on the Sabres. Just utterly stupid. 

We need to accept the fact that no matter how much the fan base believes Bryson should be the 8 at absolute most; the Sabres brass see him as their 7.  We don't have to LIKE it; but it simply is.

[Taro T]

And totally get them having Dahlin, Byram, Kesselring, and Power inked in pen ahead of Bernard-Docker.  Not sure where the certainty that Samuelsson and Timmons are (well, were, now) ahead of Bernard-Docker stems from.

Just one more thing to dislike about Marty Wilford, IMHO.  The guy who has responsibility for coaching that portion of the team HAS to have input in that area of the team, right?

And they HAVE to put a ton of weight into how pairs look in practice, because they ALWAYS would roll back to Dahlin-Jokiharju as a pair even though Henri didn't belong anywhere near a top pairing in the NHL.  Expecting he's a really smart guy and that in practice knowing what the forwards he was facing would be trying to do that he looked like a world beater; but in real games, he didn't work well with Ras and that forcing of that pairing is why it was a good thing to trade him away.  Save the coaches from themselves.  This seems to be working the exact opposite way.  Power JBD must not have looked very good in practice, but it looked good in games.

Just flat out don't get how they evaluate the D-men.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And totally get them having Dahlin, Byram, Kesselring, and Power inked in pen ahead of Bernard-Docker.  Not sure where the certainty that Samuelsson and Timmons are (well, were, now) ahead of Bernard-Docker stems from.

Just one more thing to dislike about Marty Wilford, IMHO.  The guy who has responsibility for coaching that portion of the team HAS to have input in that area of the team, right?

And they HAVE to put a ton of weight into how pairs look in practice, because they ALWAYS would roll back to Dahlin-Jokiharju as a pair even though Henri didn't belong anywhere near a top pairing in the NHL.  Expecting he's a really smart guy and that in practice knowing what the forwards he was facing would be trying to do that he looked like a world beater; but in real games, he didn't work well with Ras and that forcing of that pairing is why it was a good thing to trade him away.  Save the coaches from themselves.  This seems to be working the exact opposite way.  Power JBD must not have looked very good in practice, but it looked good in games.

Just flat out don't get how they evaluate the D-men.

I think when Adams likes a guys personality and meshes with him, he cannot separate that from how good or bad they are as a hockey player. 

[LTS]

32 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Adams claims the arbitration award for JBD would have been too much for the 8th defender... the MOFO signed for 875 in Detroit. 

I only quoted this post.  Just a stupid statement by Adams all around.  How about you let the arbitration award be handed out and then you let him walk?  Everything about the JBD situation is the perfect example of how broken this team is and how they clearly don't think ahead.

No plan for Byram.

They got JBD as part of the Cozens deal (filled a hole at the time) but clearly had no idea what they were going to do. Now they see younger guys (don't block the youth!) and cheaper guys (by $100k? That's fine tuning EEE).  They let the guy walk before they had to do anything.

Whatever.. this is the most I've spent talking about this team in the past few months and likely the most I'll spend talking about it for the next year... 

Edited 11 hours ago by LTS
update so it was clear I am talking about Adams

[Taro T]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I think when Adams likes a guys personality and meshes with him, he cannot separate that from how good or bad they are as a hockey player. 

Is very possible.  Who are we kidding, it's very likely.

But Adams shouldn't be the one choosing who plays with whom.  That falls on the coaching staff.  Adams job is to get Ruff the best set of players he can and if Ruff identifies a gap, it is Adams job to fill that gap.

But who goes out when and with whom is on the coaches.  That isn't on the GM.

[LGR4GM]

ik in the grand scheme JBD isn't that important but when there is a bad process, it is a symptom of the rot. 

[JustOneParade]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think when Adams Pegula likes a guys personality and meshes with him, he cannot separate that from how good or bad they are as a hockey player GM. 

Sounds familiar, no?

[Porous Five Hole]

59 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Adams claims the arbitration award for JBD would have been too much for the 8th defender... the MOFO signed for 875 in Detroit. 

 

Please don’t intend this to sound like I’m defending KA as a competent GM, but this one move he got right.  
 

MOFO got 875k and that is probably what the Sabres also thought he was worth. However, had the Sabres extended a qualifying offer, JBD would have responded by electing to go through salary arbitration as is right under the CBA. And he would have gotten awarded a higher salary (GMKA’s mention of comps) that the Sabres would have to accept. And you’re not going to pay that for your 7D/8D. 
 

Where you’re right to criticize him is that GMKA has no plan. Why spend a 2nd for the services of JBD and then go trade happy at the position a couple months later? It was a waste of draft capital.

[LTS]

16 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

 

Please don’t intend this to sound like I’m defending KA as a competent GM, but this one move he got right.  
 

MOFO got 875k and that is probably what the Sabres also thought he was worth. However, had the Sabres extended a qualifying offer, JBD would have responded by electing to go through salary arbitration as is right under the CBA. And he would have gotten awarded a higher salary (GMKA’s mention of comps) that the Sabres would have to accept. And you’re not going to pay that for your 7D/8D. 
 

Where you’re right to criticize him is that GMKA has no plan. Why spend a 2nd for the services of JBD and then go trade happy at the position a couple months later? It was a waste of draft capital.

This is not accurate and what I alluded to when I posted.  They can choose not to accept and the player becomes a free agent.  So instead of seeing what happened they just simply said "Out out damned spot" and went about signing a gaggle of low level defenders to two way deals.

One might argue they did "right by the player" to release him now so he had a better chance of signing somewhere. 

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, LTS said:

This is not accurate and what I alluded to when I posted.  They can choose not to accept and the player becomes a free agent.  So instead of seeing what happened they just simply said "Out out damned spot" and went about signing a gaggle of low level defenders to two way deals.

One might argue they did "right by the player" to release him now so he had a better chance of signing somewhere. 

If I remember correctly, there is a small limit to the number of times you can walk away from an Arbitration result.

[Porous Five Hole]

Just now, LTS said:

This is not accurate and what I alluded to when I posted.  They can choose not to accept and the player becomes a free agent.  So instead of seeing what happened they just simply said "Out out damned spot" and went about signing a gaggle of low level defenders to two way deals.

One might argue they did "right by the player" to release him now so he had a better chance of signing somewhere. 

To the bolded, exactly.
My post wasn’t inaccurate. It was obvious the Sabres feel he’s their eighth defenseman, so why bother with arbitration and a higher award than they feel he is worth? Zero sum game.    

[Trettioåtta]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

I only quoted this post.  Just a stupid statement by Adams all around.  How about you let the arbitration award be handed out and then you let him walk?  Everything about the JBD situation is the perfect example of how broken this team is and how they clearly don't think ahead.

No plan for Byram.

They got JBD as part of the Cozens deal (filled a hole at the time) but clearly had no idea what they were going to do. Now they see younger guys (don't block the youth!) and cheaper guys (by $100k? That's fine tuning EEE).  They let the guy walk before they had to do anything.

Whatever.. this is the most I've spent talking about this team in the past few months and likely the most I'll spend talking about it for the next year... 

If the arbitration is below a certain value (about $4.8 million) the team can't walk away. So if he's given $1.5 million, you're stuck paying that for an 8th defender.

If this guy was basically a thrown in for the Norris trade, it makes sense they never saw him as more than that.

He also signed for basically league minimum - he clearly isn't well regarded. 

[Drag0nDan]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Adams claims the arbitration award for JBD would have been too much for the 8th defender... the MOFO signed for 875 in Detroit. 

And he probably gets non-tendered again next year for the same reason.  

[LGR4GM]

Y'all no you don't have to tender him right? You could just sign him outright and move along. Also he's better than Bryson and we really can't afford to pay the 7th defender on our team 1.5mil for 1 year? I call *****. 

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, LTS said:

This is not accurate and what I alluded to when I posted.  They can choose not to accept and the player becomes a free agent.  So instead of seeing what happened they just simply said "Out out damned spot" and went about signing a gaggle of low level defenders to two way deals.

One might argue they did "right by the player" to release him now so he had a better chance of signing somewhere. 

Bernard-Docker wouldn't get an arbitration award that's big enough for the Sabres to walk away from.  But he very likely would've gotten more than he settled for in the offer from Detroit.  So, yeah, @Porous Five Hole was right on that, the Sabres would've been paying the guy they expect to be their 8 significantly more than they'd want to.  

BUT if neither of the new guys gel with Power, the contract they'd end up with for JBD would've been very good for the player that is effectively their #4/5.  Because we know, at least from a small sample size that JBD can be an effective partner for Power.

[PromoTheRobot]

McLeod signed fairly quickly. Is there any reason to be concerned that Levi hasn't signed yet? Or are they working on something longer term for him?

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

McLeod signed fairly quickly. Is there any reason to be concerned that Levi hasn't signed yet? Or are they working on something longer term for him?

No urgency at all for signing Levi.  He can't be offer sheeted and he isn't arbitration eligible.  They'll have the rest of their ducks in a row and then get the deal done with him.