Stanley Cup! 2025

[Weave]

18 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I

Can we imagine for a second what it would be like if McDavid got to touch the puck on literally every offensive possession the oilers had? 

If he were good enough we wouldn’t have to imagine…..

[That Aud Smell]

34 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The proof is in the pudding: you can perform to a level of aptitude greater than all who came before and it still can, quite clearly, not be enough. It’s just not the nfl or nba

I think the same truth applies substantially in other sports as well. Jordan without Pippen (and without Horace Grant, Luc Longley, Toni Kukoc, etc.) is not a 6-time (?) NBA champion. It seems more pronounced in hockey.

15 minutes ago, Weave said:

If he were good enough we wouldn’t have to imagine…..

The Pardon My Take guys (a podcast) have a running bit about how McDavid can't be that good because he has to come off the ice after 60-90 seconds.

[DarthEbriate]

You just go into the Settings and turn off Line Changes. It's easy.

[FrenchConnection44]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

McDavid had 33 points in 22 games, tying Draisaitl for the playoffs lead -- both of them 10 clear of Reinhart/Tkachuk/Verhaege. McDavid was hardly a playoff bust. He was a stud in every game and series.

He and Draisaitl simply ran into a better team, particularly when Florida had the last change. If EDM had the depth (and goaltending!) to run McDavid and Draisaitl on separate lines, maybe they could manage it. But when they're paired together, Florida just drops on Verghaege-Barkov-Reinhart or ERod-Bennett-Tkachuk. And they still have Marchand-Lundell-Luostarinen as a "3rd line". That's 3 centers that can limit the damage and Marchand is on the flippin' 3rd line as a scoring threat.

We have to dial it back on this belief that a star player can do everything in team sports (even in basketball. Those '90s Bulls were the better team in each and every series; heck, they finished 2nd/3rd in their division when Jordan wasn't even on the team for the season.)

Agree. And basketball is very different from hockey in that a hockey player like McDavid barely plays over 1/3 of the game and is not the goaltender. Whereas Jordan, especially in the playoffs, could play the entire game if necessary and be a force on offense and defense with only 5 players. At the very least he's playing 3/4 of the game. It gets even worse when the media makes a big deal about a QB winning a title. Yeah, he's the most important player but there are 22 players (really 30 with specialists), the OL is a huge factor, and he doesn't play defense or special teams. If Josh Allen never wins a title it doesn't mean he wasn't a great player. Same thing with Marino. Or Dan Fouts. 

[LGR4GM]

Thxs Kevyn

 

 

[DarthEbriate]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Thxs Kevyn

And JBott before him with only a 2-year deal (which is OK, fine, bridge to see what you've got. And you had a perennial top-6 forward on any team in the league).

I like it. I feel the good in him. The conflict.

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

McDavid had 33 points in 22 games, tying Draisaitl for the playoffs lead -- both of them 10 clear of Reinhart/Tkachuk/Verhaege. McDavid was hardly a playoff bust. He was a stud in every game and series.

He and Draisaitl simply ran into a better team, particularly when Florida had the last change. If EDM had the depth (and goaltending!) to run McDavid and Draisaitl on separate lines, maybe they could manage it. But when they're paired together, Florida just drops on Verghaege-Barkov-Reinhart or ERod-Bennett-Tkachuk. And they still have Marchand-Lundell-Luostarinen as a "3rd line". That's 3 centers that can limit the damage and Marchand is on the flippin' 3rd line as a scoring threat.

We have to dial it back on this belief that a star player can do everything in team sports (even in basketball. Those '90s Bulls were the better team in each and every series; heck, they finished 2nd/3rd in their division when Jordan wasn't even on the team for the season.)

Forsling was a McDavid hack. McDonald’s played 70% of his shifts last night vs the Gustav 

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

McDavid had 33 points in 22 games, tying Draisaitl for the playoffs lead -- both of them 10 clear of Reinhart/Tkachuk/Verhaege. McDavid was hardly a playoff bust. He was a stud in every game and series.

He and Draisaitl simply ran into a better team, particularly when Florida had the last change. If EDM had the depth (and goaltending!) to run McDavid and Draisaitl on separate lines, maybe they could manage it. But when they're paired together, Florida just drops on Verghaege-Barkov-Reinhart or ERod-Bennett-Tkachuk. And they still have Marchand-Lundell-Luostarinen as a "3rd line". That's 3 centers that can limit the damage and Marchand is on the flippin' 3rd line as a scoring threat.

We have to dial it back on this belief that a star player can do everything in team sports (even in basketball. Those '90s Bulls were the better team in each and every series; heck, they finished 2nd/3rd in their division when Jordan wasn't even on the team for the season.)

Raptors finished second in the east the year after Kawhi left

and they didn’t get back what they gave up to get him, either

Build a team 

2 hours ago, Weave said:

If he were good enough we wouldn’t have to imagine…..

I’m saying where this player goes we won’t need ice 

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Raptors finished second in the east the year after Kawhi left

and they didn’t get back what they gave up to get him, either

Build a team 

I’m saying where this player goes we won’t need ice 

Sabres won the division shortly after losing Briere and Drury for nothing 

[K-9]

3 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

I think the same truth applies substantially in other sports as well. Jordan without Pippen (and without Horace Grant, Luc Longley, Toni Kukoc, etc.) is not a 6-time (?) NBA champion. It seems more pronounced in hockey.

The Pardon My Take guys (a podcast) have a running bit about how McDavid can't be that good because he has to come off the ice after 60-90 seconds.

I agree and appreciate your point about supporting casts as no superstar ever won anything on his own. That said and regarding Jordan and the Bulls, the fact he won the first three with a different starting five than the last three suggests to me that Jordan was less dependent on his supporting casts than his supporting casts were on him. That said, Phil Jackson’s importance as coach cannot be overstated either as his teams did well even without Jordan for the nearly two full seasons Jordan sat out. 

Apologies to the thread for the digression into an NBA discussion. 

[JohnC]

20 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I agree and appreciate your point about supporting casts as no superstar ever won anything on his own. That said and regarding Jordan and the Bulls, the fact he won the first three with a different starting five than the last three suggests to me that Jordan was less dependent on his supporting casts than his supporting casts were on him. That said, Phil Jackson’s importance as coach cannot be overstated either as his teams did well even without Jordan for the nearly two full seasons Jordan sat out. 

Apologies to the thread for the digression into an NBA discussion. 

The basketball comparison that you made is relevant and applicable to hockey, and all team sports. You have to have a sufficient supporting cast for your star/s in order to attain championships. And, as you point out, you need a wise coach who can fit the pieces together.