2025 NHL Entry Draft Thread, Sabres Draft 9th

[SDS]

9 hours ago, Eleven said:

Speaking of whom, @SDS should be getting nervous.

https://www.sabrespace.com/community/topic/32104-rd-1-pick-9-matthew-savoie-c/#findComment-1508001

Eh. I figured it was assumed that would be with the Sabres and not traded to a much better team after one year. 🤷

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

FWIW- From coverage of his farming days, it appears the Martin family was doing quite well. But farming took priority over hockey.

So you are suggesting he's a Sutter or a McSorley?

[Eleven]

13 hours ago, SDS said:

Eh. I figured it was assumed that would be with the Sabres and not traded to a much better team after one year. 🤷

Nah.  He's a bust.  He wouldn't make this team, either.  He always was going to be a bust.

Edited yesterday at 05:35 PM by Eleven

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Eleven said:

Nah.  He's a bust.  He wouldn't make this team, either.  He always was going to be a bust.

True, but because the Sabres drafted him they ended up with 2 very useful players - McLeod and Benson.  Really doubt they have either if they hadn't drafted Savoie.

So, some good came out of that selection.

[LGR4GM]

21 minutes ago, Taro T said:

True, but because the Sabres drafted him they ended up with 2 very useful players - McLeod and Benson.  Really doubt they have either if they hadn't drafted Savoie.

So, some good came out of that selection.

If this is true... the Sabres scouting department is incompetent. 

[Eleven]

31 minutes ago, Taro T said:

True, but because the Sabres drafted him they ended up with 2 very useful players - McLeod and Benson.  Really doubt they have either if they hadn't drafted Savoie.

So, some good came out of that selection.

 

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If this is true... the Sabres scouting department is incompetent. 

Yeah I'm not sure how Benson is connected here...I must be missing something.

[steveoath]

6 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Yeah I'm not sure how Benson is connected here...I must be missing something.

Benson was Savoie’s linemate with the JNR team (Winnipeg ice?)

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

True, but because the Sabres drafted him they ended up with 2 very useful players - McLeod and Benson.  Really doubt they have either if they hadn't drafted Savoie.

So, some good came out of that selection.

And it’s exactly what they needed to start doing 2 years ago after missing the playoffs by one point: start moving some of the futures for todays. 

[Taro T]

50 minutes ago, Eleven said:

 

Yeah I'm not sure how Benson is connected here...I must be missing something.

Because they wouldn't have seen him play live anywhere near as often as they did watching Savoie's development in his D+1 year.

And, honestly, that isn't a putdown on the scouting department.  I believe that they watched this kid way more than they would've otherwise and they also even more importantly interacted with him, his coach, those around him way more than they would've otherwise.  And those interactions swung them towards the kid that had the talent to be top 3, but lacked both the size and skating which went a long way towards scaring other teams off.  They might've taken him if he could skate like lightning or if he were an inch or 2 taller; but that kid got drafted for the intangibles that come together and let him be effective even though he really shouldn't be as his only physical trait that's pretty much at the top of the scale is his passing.  

And the intangibles don't fully come through unless you actually interact with him.  My 2 cents.  YMMV.

[shrader]

Just now, Taro T said:

Because they wouldn't have seen him play live anywhere near as often as they did watching Savoie's development in his D+1 year.

And, honestly, that isn't a putdown on the scouting department.  I believe that they watched this kid way more than they would've otherwise and they also even more importantly interacted with him, his coach, those around him way more than they would've otherwise.  And those interactions swung them towards the kid that had the talent to be top 3, but lacked both the size and skating which went a long way towards scaring other teams off.  They might've taken him if he could skate like lightning or if he were an inch or 2 taller; but that kid got drafted for the intangibles that come together and let him be effective even though he really shouldn't be as his only physical trait that's pretty much at the top of the scale is his passing.  

And the intangibles don't fully come through unless you actually interact with him.  My 2 cents.  YMMV.

Weren’t they the top team in the WHL that year? I think it’s very hard to not be incredibly aware of him at that high profile of a position. I’d be more willing to consider it if he was somewhere out in Sweden. 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, shrader said:

And it’s exactly what they needed to start doing 2 years ago after missing the playoffs by one point: start moving some of the futures for todays. 

Actually, they needed to do that at the trade deadline 2 years ago BEFORE missing the playoffs by 1 point.  Could they have traded maybe say Rosen and a 2nd or 3rd for a W that could've helped them gain exactly 2 points out of their last 35-40 points that year?  They needed exactly 1 single regulation loss to turn into a W to have gotten to the dance.  

Yeah, with that small of a move, they'd still be looking at possilby heading to year 3 of a new playoffless drought, but most all teams suffer those stretches.  Going for 15 is friggin' epic and not in a good way.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, shrader said:

Weren’t they the top team in the WHL that year? I think it’s very hard to not be incredibly aware of him at that high profile of a position. I’d be more willing to consider it if he was somewhere out in Sweden. 

Teams WERE aware of him.  But still, he was sliding down the draft board.  He went 13th overall.  AND he was selected by the team that almost definitely had more interaction with him and watched him more than any other team.  And the Sabres didn't just have their scouts watch him.  Their development people were watching him too as he was Savoie's linemate.

You will be hard pressed to convince me that he still would've been the Sabres selection had they not drafted Savoie one season earlier.

This is a kid that did the Ryan O'Reilly and made the NHL straight out of junior in his draft year and WASN'T a top 2 or 3 pick.  THAT doesn't happen often.  ROR at least is a really big guy.  Benson slid because of his physical measurements.  The Sabres took the chance on him because they actually knew him.

[shrader]

9 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Teams WERE aware of him.  But still, he was sliding down the draft board.  He went 13th overall.  AND he was selected by the team that almost definitely had more interaction with him and watched him more than any other team.  And the Sabres didn't just have their scouts watch him.  Their development people were watching him too as he was Savoie's linemate.

You will be hard pressed to convince me that he still would've been the Sabres selection had they not drafted Savoie one season earlier.

This is a kid that did the Ryan O'Reilly and made the NHL straight out of junior in his draft year and WASN'T a top 2 or 3 pick.  THAT doesn't happen often.  ROR at least is a really big guy.  Benson slid because of his physical measurements.  The Sabres took the chance on him because they actually knew him.

The first name that always pops into my head is Patrice Bergeron, and he made that leap as a second round pick. I wonder if anyone can even find another second rounder doing that. He wound up in the AHL for his second season thanks to the lockout. I don’t mean to suggest that Benson could use that time in the AHL, it’s just a crazy scenario for Bergeron. 

[dudacek]

15 minutes ago, shrader said:

The first name that always pops into my head is Patrice Bergeron, and he made that leap as a second round pick. I wonder if anyone can even find another second rounder doing that. He wound up in the AHL for his second season thanks to the lockout. I don’t mean to suggest that Benson could use that time in the AHL, it’s just a crazy scenario for Bergeron. 

Ryan O'Reilly did it a couple years after Bergeron.

I may be missing somebody, but I think he, Benson and Cole Sillinger are the only 18-year-olds since Bergeron to play in the NHL full-time in the D+1 year that were not top 10 draft picks.

The list of players to score 25 points as an 18-year-old this century doesn't have many players on it who didn't become stars.

 

Edited yesterday at 08:51 PM by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Because they wouldn't have seen him play live anywhere near as often as they did watching Savoie's development in his D+1 year.

And, honestly, that isn't a putdown on the scouting department.  I believe that they watched this kid way more than they would've otherwise and they also even more importantly interacted with him, his coach, those around him way more than they would've otherwise.  And those interactions swung them towards the kid that had the talent to be top 3, but lacked both the size and skating which went a long way towards scaring other teams off.  They might've taken him if he could skate like lightning or if he were an inch or 2 taller; but that kid got drafted for the intangibles that come together and let him be effective even though he really shouldn't be as his only physical trait that's pretty much at the top of the scale is his passing.  

And the intangibles don't fully come through unless you actually interact with him.  My 2 cents.  YMMV.

Imo, Zach Benson got drafted because the underlying analytics were absurd.

Edited 23 hours ago by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

Carter Bear is progressing quick enough he may participate in the July World Jr summer showcase. He's already back skating. 

[shrader]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Ryan O'Reilly did it a couple years after Bergeron.

I may be missing somebody, but I think he, Benson and Cole Sillinger are the only 18-year-olds since Bergeron to play in the NHL full-time in the D+1 year that were not top 10 draft picks.

The list of players to score 25 points as an 18-year-old this century doesn't have many players on it who didn't become stars.

 

Ahhh, I thought O’Reilly was a bit earlier than that. 

[SwampD]

On 5/19/2025 at 3:10 PM, Eleven said:

Speaking of whom, @SDS should be getting nervous.

https://www.sabrespace.com/community/topic/32104-rd-1-pick-9-matthew-savoie-c/#findComment-1508001

ELEVEN!!!!

Two eclipses (Dark the other) in one week!!!

[thewookie1]

5 hours ago, Eleven said:

 

Yeah I'm not sure how Benson is connected here...I must be missing something.

I believe the Sabres even commented on the fact they started liking Benson while scouting Savoie during the Beyond Blue and Gold.

Benson is a freak of nature and frankly if he were to keep growing stronger, add to his point totals, etc. He could very quickly vault himself into a top 200 ft player in the league.

[LGR4GM]

Martone: unlikely to be available at 9

 

[LGR4GM]

 

 

[LGR4GM]

Really quick. The Draft Pros videos are short and fine but the Elite Prospects videos give far better analysis. I think shooting is the most obvious one for that, DP just says they shoot hard or fast but EP talks about changing release points, shot types, wrist and stick flex. 

Skating is another good example where DP is basically fast v slow although they do mention explosive skating. EP will talk about ankle flexion, crossovers, edges. 

I'm just mentioning it because I think you can learn more from EP and their videos are really great to not only learn about a specific player but also learn about things to look for as a whole. 

[LGR4GM]

One of my big problems with Pronman is he talks about skating like a novice. If you're fast, you're a good skater. If you're slow you're a bad skater. That's just not accurate and doesn't reflect how the game is played. 

[JoeSchmoe]

50 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Martone: unlikely to be available at 9

 

Even though he's unlikely to be available, I'd hope the Sabres pass on Martone if he is. The video confirms what little I saw at the U20's in that he's passive and doesn't use his size enough to be a power forward. We don't need another soft player in the locker room.

One thing is he mentioned is that he still may develop the physicality. I'm curious... Has there been many cases of a big but passive player learning to be aggressive? Dahlin maybe comes to mind, but he wasn't exactly big when he came into the league.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Even though he's unlikely to be available, I'd hope the Sabres pass on Martone if he is. The video confirms what little I saw at the U20's in that he's passive and doesn't use his size enough to be a power forward. We don't need another soft player in the locker room.

One thing is he mentioned is that he still may develop the physicality. I'm curious... Has there been many cases of a big but passive player learning to be aggressive? Dahlin maybe comes to mind, but he wasn't exactly big when he came into the league.

Passive is the right word. Dahlin wasn't passive in the SHL, he just learned how to apply his physical side. Imo, passive isn't just about hitting or physical play. It's about demanding the puck and doing stuff with it. It's why Martone and Frondell are players I don't care for. They don't demand the puck, they react or support more than imposing their will. Bear and Martin impose themselves.