Peyton Krebs- Only 1 Assist?!?! Seriously!

[LGR4GM]

We traded ROR away, he won the Cup. 

We traded Eichel away, he won the Cup. 

Are we really going to worry about trading a questionable forward away in an effort to improve a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 12 years? Krebs might be good some day, do you wanna wait though? Even I've tired of waiting for "some day"

Edited November 22, 2023 by LGR4GM
Changed what to wait*

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We traded ROR away, he won the Cup. 

We traded Eichel away, he won the Cup. 

Are we really going to worry about trading a questionable forward away in an effort to improve a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 12 years? Krebs might be good some day, do you wanna what though? Even I've tired of waiting for "some day"

Agree. What’s the worst that can happen? We…simply continue to not win? Seems like more of the same. We aren’t risking anything. On the other hand, we rule out winning to a near certainty if we refuse to do much of anything. 

Being afraid we might lose something in the vague future is actively preventing us from finding winning now 

[Porous Five Hole]

18 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Being afraid we might lose something in the vague future is actively preventing us from finding winning now 

This times a million. The Sabres are sitting on soooo much F depth and there’s more bodies than spots in a future lineup. It’s time to make some developmental decisions and part with potential to help this team now. Rosen, Kulich, Benson & probably Savoie have a lot of value. Time to focus on 2023.  
 

To reinforce the point, the trajectory for each of the above is top six forward soon. But the Sabres already have Tage,  Cozens, Skinner, Tuch, Peterka, and Quinn penciled in for the foreseeable future. This doesn’t even mention Mitts who will likely be part of the equation. It is time for the Sabres to be bold.  

Edited November 22, 2023 by Porous Five Hole

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Agree. What’s the worst that can happen? We…simply continue to not win? Seems like more of the same. We aren’t risking anything. On the other hand, we rule out winning to a near certainty if we refuse to do much of anything. 

Being afraid we might lose something in the vague future is actively preventing us from finding winning now 

Adams is betting that he has put together a roster that is good enough to make the playoffs and he doesn't need to trade away prospects/picks yet.  (Or at a minimum, as he has been "close" to several deals; that he doesn't need to trade away as many as it would take to increase the probability that he's correct that they're good enough as is to make the playoffs.)  He MAY be right.  If he is, standing firm on his beliefs will end up having been the right choice.  

But this cuts the margin for error razor thin.  It could cost him his job.  If it does, so be it.  But personally, would give him 1 more year IF they don't make it this year.  Because do believe that once this team makes the playoffs, they're going to stay there for a long time.  But if this team that seems to truly love their coach can't get it done for him and continue to make the same errors that have cost too many games last year and this year as well, then they really will have demonstrated they need a different coach.

But also believe this discussion is premature.  They win tomorrow and on Black Friday and suddenly this board sounds like it did after the Minny W.

 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

This times a million. The Sabres are sitting on soooo much F depth and there’s more bodies than spots in a future lineup. It’s time to make some developmental decisions and part with potential to help this team now. Rosen, Kulich, Benson & probably Savoie have a lot of value. Time to focus on 2023.  
 

To reinforce the point, the trajectory for each of the above is top six forward soon. But the Sabres already have Tage,  Cozens, Skinner, Tuch, Peterka, and Quinn penciled in for the foreseeable future. This doesn’t even mention Mitts who will likely be part of the equation. It is time for the Sabres to be bold.  

Adams is a good evaluator of talent, too. I’d be happy for him to make some decisions on that front especially when he’d have the evaluation high-ground in swaps with other teams as he has a front row seat to our prospects and we’d be dealing for NHL guys who everyone knows the ins and outs of 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Adams is betting that he has put together a roster that is good enough to make the playoffs and he doesn't need to trade away prospects/picks yet.  (Or at a minimum, as he has been "close" to several deals; that he doesn't need to trade away as many as it would take to increase the probability that he's correct that they're good enough as is to make the playoffs.)  He MAY be right.  If he is, standing firm on his beliefs will end up having been the right choice.  

But this cuts the margin for error razor thin.  It could cost him his job.  If it does, so be it.  But personally, would give him 1 more year IF they don't make it this year.  Because do believe that once this team makes the playoffs, they're going to stay there for a long time.  But if this team that seems to truly love their coach can't get it done for him and continue to make the same errors that have cost too many games last year and this year as well, then they really will have demonstrated they need a different coach.

But also believe this discussion is premature.  They win tomorrow and on Black Friday and suddenly this board sounds like it did after the Minny W.

 

I give him a pass for missing this year. I’m against your theory in the other thread he gets a 6th year should next year also miss.

he’s also quickly approaching the point where he’ll be past being able to get proclaimed “right”. If we miss this year and make next, I hazard to say taking 5 years to make the playoffs is more along the lines of “not actively, absurdly wrong.” It shouldn’t take 5 years to make it, fact is 

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I give him a pass for missing this year. I’m against your theory in the other thread he gets a 6th year should next year also miss.

he’s also quickly approaching the point where he’ll be past being able to get proclaimed “right”. If we miss this year and make next, I hazard to say taking 5 years to make the playoffs is more along the lines of “not actively, absurdly wrong.” It shouldn’t take 5 years to make it, fact is 

We agree he shouldn't get a 6th year should they miss next year too.  But that doesn't mean that he won't get it.

As to the 2nd part, if they make it this year and then miss again next year, then would say Adams is wrong as well.  He's sold a slow cook to have a long run near the top.  He needs to deliver on that extended run.  And if he does, having taken 3 or 4 years to get to that point will hopefully have been worth it.  Don't know that'll be the case.  (Wasn't sold on re-retooling and punting Eichel and Reinhart because it did mean extending the drought at a minimum 2 more years and bringing in a goalie, a Danault and a couple of other pieces could've had them in the playoffs.)  But we are where we are.  And DON'T want to re-re-re-retool with a GM that has a completely different idea of what direction the team should be going.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The best thing to do with Krebs is send him down to Rochester and let him find his game.  Each game of failure in the NHL is destroying his confidence.  Send him down and let Appert and Co restore him. When we sent down Mitts (114 games) and TNT (106 games) they both played only one full NHL season before being sent down.  Despite playing 152 NHL games to date, last year was really Krebs' first full NHL season.  Sending him down to work on his game would be just like Mitts and TNT and it worked wonders for them.  FYI Krebs loses his waiver exemption in 8 games.  KA do it now while you still can.

[GASabresIUFAN]

41 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Adams is a good evaluator of talent, too

I'm not 100% on this one.  Krebs, Comrie, Dell, Lyubushkin, assorted garbage from year 1 & 2, and Stillman to name just some of his crappy acquisitions.  He has also retain Bryson and UPL, failed to keep Ullmark, failed to add quality veteran starting goaltending.  While some of his score card (especially draft wise and that's more on the scouts) is excellent, there are a pile of very poor decisions on his door step.  

 

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'm not 100% on this one.  Krebs, Comrie, Dell, Lyubushkin, assorted garbage from year 1 & 2, and Stillman to name just some of his crappy acquisitions.  He has also retain Bryson and UPL, failed to keep Ullmark, failed to add quality veteran starting goaltending.  While some of his score card (especially draft wise and that's more on the scouts) is excellent, there are a pile of very poor decisions on his door step.  

 

Not sure I’d include Ullmark in that. I think that falls more towards my issues with Adams in the strategic sense, in that an overpay by the prism of the moment is something I’d have deemed very necessary. But he did want to keep him and tried negotiating with him, so I’d hazard to say his evaluation of him as a player was probably pretty on the mark. 

He just wasn’t willing to lose a battle to win a war, when his reasonably accurate evaluation and corresponding cash was shown to nonetheless not be enough to get it done 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

I don't believe the thought of sending Krebs down has even crossed their minds. 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't believe the thought of sending Krebs down has even crossed their minds. 

Expecting this is correct.  He has not seen a single game night from the pressbox this season but somehow he's going to get sent down to the minors, doesn't seem likely.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Expecting this is correct.  He has not seen a single game night from the pressbox this season but somehow he's going to get sent down to the minors, doesn't seem likely.

Injuries have prevented him from seeing the pressbox.  We will see what happens.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

While I think he should be sent down.  The team lacks centers if he is sent to Rochester.  

Edited November 22, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[FrenchConnection44]

He doesn’t play with anyone who can score. He’s also not a very offensive player. But the lines he is on such as well. But if they were going to get anything for him they needed to trade him last year. He’s not going to bring anyone in. Trades are great if they make the team appreciably better. 
 

He should go down to the AHL but highly unlikely. 
 

But the way Granato has been coaching this team is a problem as well as still having KO, Girgs, and VO get minutes. A problem that won’t be fixed this year. I’d  rather dump VO, Girgs, and Krebs in January (and bench KO) and call up young guys even if it hurts us. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

He doesn’t play with anyone who can score. He’s also not a very offensive player. But the lines he is on such as well. But if they were going to get anything for him they needed to trade him last year. He’s not going to bring anyone in. Trades are great if they make the team appreciably better. 
 

He should go down to the AHL but highly unlikely. 
 

But the way Granato has been coaching this team is a problem as well as still having KO, Girgs, and VO get minutes. A problem that won’t be fixed this year. I’d  rather dump VO, Girgs, and Krebs in January (and bench KO) and call up young guys even if it hurts us. 

I am pretty sure there is upside to Krebs and that other teams would see that.   I prefer he play in Rochester for awhile but we don't have enough centers to do that as @GASabresIUFAN has already pointed out.  

If we dump VO, Girgs, Krebs, and bench KO in January, and replace them all with call ups, then the playoff goal chase is probably over.   Does dump mean trade?   Cutting them lose is not gonna happen.   Trade market for VO is probably at the deadline.  

KO is the Captain - best we can do is to platoon him.   

Girgensons is not even one of the problems - he is a decent 4th line grinder with some jam and some PK skill.  

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Pimlach

[JoeSchmoe]

As someone that's jumped back and forth on the idea, seeing Krebs crap the bed this hard has me thinking Patrick Kane would be a net help for the team. If he's available get him... He can't be any worse that Krebs. 🤠   

In that case, hopefully even a 75% Kane, plus getting Quinn back will help us score a lot more than we are now.

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

As someone that's jumped back and forth on the idea, seeing Krebs crap the bed this hard has me thinking Patrick Kane would be a net help for the team. If he's available get him... He can't be any worse that Krebs. 🤠   

In that case, hopefully even a 75% Kane, plus getting Quinn back will help us score a lot more than we are now.

Want absolutely nothing to do with a 75% Kane.  That's the guy that did absolutely nothing for the Rags in the playoffs.

IF he's at least back to 90%, then maybe.  (Still don't want him, but won't absolutely hate the idea.)  Anything less is a hard no.

[JoeSchmoe]

17 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Want absolutely nothing to do with a 75% Kane.  That's the guy that did absolutely nothing for the Rags in the playoffs.

IF he's at least back to 90%, then maybe.  (Still don't want him, but won't absolutely hate the idea.)  Anything less is a hard no.

I'd tend to agree with you, but have you seen 100% Krebs?

[MISabresFan]

3 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

He doesn’t play with anyone who can score. He’s also not a very offensive player. But the lines he is on such as well. But if they were going to get anything for him they needed to trade him last year. He’s not going to bring anyone in. Trades are great if they make the team appreciably better. 
 

He should go down to the AHL but highly unlikely. 
 

But the way Granato has been coaching this team is a problem as well as still having KO, Girgs, and VO get minutes. A problem that won’t be fixed this year. I’d  rather dump VO, Girgs, and Krebs in January (and bench KO) and call up young guys even if it hurts us. 

I would rather see the kids play if the Sabres will be a perennial non-playoff team.

[French Collection]

I thought he could get to Cirelli’s level but now I am not sure.

It takes hard work and dedication to a role to hit that next level. Krebs can still become a Johan Larsson type but he needs work to get there and the will to believe that is his role.

[mjd1001]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:13 AM, FrenchConnection44 said:

He doesn’t play with anyone who can score. He’s also not a very offensive player. But the lines he is on such as well. But if they were going to get anything for him they needed to trade him last year. He’s not going to bring anyone in. Trades are great if they make the team appreciably better. 
 

He should go down to the AHL but highly unlikely. 
 

But the way Granato has been coaching this team is a problem as well as still having KO, Girgs, and VO get minutes. A problem that won’t be fixed this year. I’d  rather dump VO, Girgs, and Krebs in January (and bench KO) and call up young guys even if it hurts us. 

I do not see the problem with Girgs.  Hes not carrying this team to victory, but he doesn't make a ton of mistakes and gives you want you want in a 4th liner. Decent penalty Killer.  Hard forechecker (might be the best on the team next to Tuch). Scores an occasional goal.  Fast enough skater that he isn't late getting back on plays.

Okposo I was with many with thinking I'd rather not resign him, but I have no problem with Girgs.

[FrenchConnection44]

On 11/23/2023 at 3:24 PM, mjd1001 said:

I do not see the problem with Girgs.  Hes not carrying this team to victory, but he doesn't make a ton of mistakes and gives you want you want in a 4th liner. Decent penalty Killer.  Hard forechecker (might be the best on the team next to Tuch). Scores an occasional goal.  Fast enough skater that he isn't late getting back on plays.

Okposo I was with many with thinking I'd rather not resign him, but I have no problem with Girgs.

He has no offensive talent. That was my point. If a center is critiqued for not scoring one has to also look at the linemates. 

[Crusader1969]

I really have to wonder about his future.  He's got pretty good energy but is it enough to be their 4th line winger for the future? 

I could see maybe a 4th line of 

Greenway, Krebs and William Carrier (or similar vein) in 2024

 

[mjd1001]

On 11/25/2023 at 1:57 PM, FrenchConnection44 said:

He has no offensive talent. That was my point. If a center is critiqued for not scoring one has to also look at the linemates. 

Girgensons is a 4th liner, when you are talking your 10th-12th best forward, you normally don't always need a ton of offensive talent, but to say he has none is just wrong.

5 on 5 goals per 60 he is 6th on the team this year, and if you go back over recent history (I searched and combined the past 3 years with anyone who played half the games or more for the Sabres) he is still 6th over that timeframe. Not bad for a 4th liner. 

His shooting percentage is just shy of 9%. Again, not great, but about the same this year (or better) than Cozens, Greenway, VO and Benson...and not too far below what Peterka's is for both years of his career.

Anyone who is my 4th line (10th-12th forward on the team) that is better than 10th in goals per 60 (best way to measure offensive production for players with limited ice time and little-to-no PP time), I think thats actually good for the 4th line.  

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by mjd1001