Don Granato the Worm Tongue and the Culture of Losing

[PASabreFan]

“But, yes, it was Game 2. There’s a foundation of some things when you have that many returning players there that you can really start building on more. I thought once our guys start feeling like themselves, it’s exciting as a coach. It’s a sign that we’re moving in the right direction. Based on that, the direction can accelerate at a better pace than it did maybe a year ago.”

[dudacek]

I'm curious how many people respond best in their own lives when a boss loses his ***** on them. Honest question.

Personally, I don't. I go through the wall for the guy who has my back.

The guys who need repeated ass-kickings to achieve good results are generally the guys i don't want on my team.

[PASabreFan]

It's a fine line. But "moving in the right direction" after two losses is the wrong message if this season is about winning.

Narrator: they're not going through a wall.

[SDS]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I'm curious how many people respond best in their own lives when a boss loses his ***** on them. Honest question.

Personally, I don't. I go through the wall for the guy who has my back.

The guys who need repeated ass-kickings to achieve good results are generally the guys i don't want on my team.

It’s a generational thing.  They grew up on Vince Lombardi, Bobby Knight and spit yellers who were striking fear in players who had to work part time jobs in the summer to make ends meet. 

[PASabreFan]

2 minutes ago, SDS said:

It’s a generational thing.  They grew up on Vince Lombardi, Bobby Knight and spit yellers who were striking fear in players who had to work part time jobs in the summer to make ends meet. 

Ever run suicides in gym class in junior high when you forgot to wear your jock strap? ***** right.

[dudacek]

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It's a fine line. But "moving in the right direction" after two losses is the wrong message if this season is about winning.

Weird, because to me it's a fair representation of what I saw in the 2 games I watched.

My personal take is Don knows his team's personalities very well and believes an evenhanded "deep breath, you got this" is the proper response for a group that has put a ton of pressure on itself and maybe wants things to go right a little too desperately right now.

But I'm projecting as much as anyone else on here. Let's see how they respond.

[PASabreFan]

I'm at a total loss as to how we go from building on two losses and those losses having the team moving in the right direction to next spring when every single playoff game is a must win.

[LTS]

Failure is only failure if you don't learn from it.  That's how you build on it.  Perhaps they did not do enough to achieve a victory but that only means there are things to be learned.

No one wins at everything they do all the time.

And for the record, every single playoff game is not a must win.  You can lose 3 of them in any series of 7. You may not want to lose them, but it is possible to do so and still be successful.  That's just the plain truth.

 

[Cascade Youth]

Both the Sabres and the Bills lean a bit too much towards the development / college program vibe and too far away from "championship or bust."  That doesn't mean we need head coaches to call players out publicly and smash chairs in the locker room, but there are not enough signs of real accountability metrics in either organization for my liking.  That's not to say I don't love a lot of what Adams (and Beane) has done - but I just don't ever get the sense that a mandate for success is implemented by the Pegulas.  Scoring a B or B plus grade, and selling tickets, seems to be good enough for them (but not for me).

Edited October 17, 2023 by Cascade Youth

[bob_sauve28]

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I'm at a total loss as to how we go from building on two losses and those losses having the team moving in the right direction to next spring when every single playoff game is a must win.

Forgive me, but this doesn’t feel sincere.

Unless you actually read that as Granato saying it was the 2 losses that have the team moving in the right direction, as opposed to the trend of the team’s play over their 2 games?

Edited October 17, 2023 by dudacek

[Weave]

I can smell what PAs cookin’.  I’ve felt for awhile that there is a fair bit of Kreuger-speak in how Granato speaks.  I suppose thats just what a communicator type leader sounds like today?

I guess its been so long since we’ve heard an actual winning HC communicate that I don’t know what a modern one sounds like.

[Night Train]

While they were pancake flat vs.the Rangers,  It wasn't as bad vs. the Isanders. Clifton was tripped on the opening Islander goal with no call. Their 3rd goal was offsides.  Refs swallowed the whistle twice and it beat us. 

 82 more games and hockey fortunes can change quickly. 

[PASabreFan]

36 minutes ago, LTS said:

Failure is only failure if you don't learn from it.  That's how you build on it.  Perhaps they did not do enough to achieve a victory but that only means there are things to be learned.

No one wins at everything they do all the time.

And for the record, every single playoff game is not a must win.  You can lose 3 of them in any series of 7. You may not want to lose them, but it is possible to do so and still be successful.  That's just the plain truth.

 

Well of course. Do you remember a playoff game that didn't feel like a must win? Even up 3-0, the very idea of losing Game 4 is terrifying.

I'm just looking for some obvious signs that the sea change we were expecting in Sabres hockey is taking place. Granato's comments are just more of the same.

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, Weave said:

I can smell what PAs cookin’.  I’ve felt for awhile that there is a fair bit of Kreuger-speak in how Granato speaks.  I suppose thats just what a communicator type leader sounds like today?

I guess its been so long since we’ve heard an actual winning HC communicate that I don’t know what a modern one sounds like.

Now this is fair comment.

I think most coach’s messaging has always been dictated primarily toward what they want the players to hear. And there has been a concerted shift away from pushing their buttons in public to massaging their feelings.

Fans generally don’t dive too deeply into what the coach is saying to the players, they want a coach who reflects what they’re feeling back at them. They want to say “He gets it!” 

Krueger’s presence jumped the shark when it became obvious he couldn’t coach and his words were hollow.

Donnie strikes me as both more knowledgeable and more genuine, but if you ask me if I still feel that way when our record is 8-17-3, I suspect I won’t.

Edited October 17, 2023 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I'm curious how many people respond best in their own lives when a boss loses his ***** on them. Honest question.

Personally, I don't. I go through the wall for the guy who has my back.

The guys who need repeated ass-kickings to achieve good results are generally the guys i don't want on my team.

Had a person above absolutely unload on me after I questioned my lack of invite to a planning meeting. We don't speak any longer. So I suppose them doing that wasn't really effective considering I make sure I no longer am on projects they are remotely involved with. 

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Now this is fair comment.

I think most coach’s messaging has always been dictated primarily toward what they want the players to hear. And there has been a concerted shift away from pushing their buttons in public to massaging their feelings.

Fans generally don’t dive too deeply into what the coach is saying to the players, they want a coach who reflects what they’re feeling back at them. They want to say “He gets it!” 

Krueger’s presence jumped the shark when it became obvious he couldn’t coach and his words were hollow.

Donnie strikes me as both more knowledgeable and more genuine, but if you ask me if I still feel that way when our record is 8-17-3, I suspect I won’t.

I think what Don Granato says on WGR and what he says in the lockerroom are not always the same. Also, he just benched Olofsson so clearly there is a message being sent to the team. 

[Randall Flagg]

Donny G will show me all I need to see about him this season, in either direction.

[dudacek]

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I think what Don Granato says on WGR and what he says in the lockerroom are not always the same. Also, he just benched Olofsson so clearly there is a message being sent to the team. 

And the benching has come after 2 games.

From a roster that literally has two spare skaters to move around.

The top free agent acquisition struggled in training camp and started the season on the 3rd pair.

The first line sucked and its ice time was cut. The 3rd line played well and its ice time increased.

Two games.

The perception of what Donnie is doing or not doing to make “winning a priority” and the reality don’t necessarily line up.

But people will see what they want to see.

[PASabreFan]

Just now, dudacek said:

And the benching has come after 2 games.

From a roster that literally has two spare skaters to move around.

The top free agent acquisition struggled in training camp and started the season on the 3rd pair.

The first line sucked and its ice time was cut. The 3rd line played well and its ice time increased.

Two games.

The perception of what Donnie is doing or not doing to make “winning a priority” and the reality don’t necessarily line up.

But people will see what they want to see.

And people will twist other people's posts into what they want them to be. Your initial reply to me was quite the strawman. I wasn't really arguing for the coach to lose his crap.

29 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Had a person above absolutely unload on me after I questioned my lack of invite to a planning meeting. We don't speak any longer. So I suppose them doing that wasn't really effective considering I make sure I no longer am on projects they are remotely involved with. 

I think what Don Granato says on WGR and what he says in the lockerroom are not always the same. Also, he just benched Olofsson so clearly there is a message being sent to the team. 

Good point on VO.

I also look at the coach's bench demeanor. Does DG really save it all for the lockerroom?

[Porous Five Hole]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

 

I also look at the coach's bench demeanor. Does DG really save it all for the lockerroom?

I don’t find Granato’s demeanor to be any different from the head coaches across the rest of the league (by and large).  

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

And people will twist other people's posts into what they want them to be. Your initial reply to me was quite the strawman. I wasn't really arguing for the coach to lose his crap.

OK? I thought this was a conversation, not a debate.

[inkman]

The term worm tongue is a deeply disturbing image 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

OK? I thought this was a conversation, not a debate.

 

[zow2]

He has to say positive things.  What he says at a podium filters right back to the players.  If he said what he's actually thinking then we'd have some interesting sound bites. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

We are 2 games into the season.  Breathe people, please.  

The Sabres started 9-12-1 in their first 22 games last season.  Although they started strong with a 7-3 record, they then stumbled and went 2-9-1 (including an 8-game losing streak) in the next 12 games.  Yes, defensive injuries played a part, but in 7 of those 12 losses, they scored 2 or less and also allowed 5 or more goals in 7 of the losses.  

They then went 33-21-6 the rest of the way, despite having 3 more 4-game losing streaks.  

They were clearly a streaky team last year and probably will be again this season.  Again, let's wait 10 games before burning down the house.  

Don't forget we are really integrating a rookie starting goalie, 2 new players on D, an 18-year-old rookie forward, plus a finally healthy Greenway.  It's going to take a minute to gell.