GDT: Sabres @ Blue Jackets - October 4, 2023 - 7:00PM, Sabres.com📺WGR📻

[matter2003]

I think its time to pull the plug on the UPL experiment...dude has been given every chance you could ever want and even many he hasn't earned or deserved.  He just doesn't have it and likely never will.

Edited October 5, 2023 by matter2003

[CallawaySabres]

I think we just have to hope that UPL is a late bloomer and we are singing a different tune next year after another run in Rochester. 

[JoeSchmoe]

34 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

80s Oilers Fuhr was one of the best big game goalies of all time. He never gave up the next goal when his team needed him. 

I don't think that line would fly in this day and age of the analytics era. Back then you could kind of say what you wanted, and if it sounded good, it would stick. No one questioned it. Fuhr was in the right place at the right time on being on maybe the best offensive team ever.  Unfortunately, we lost Andreychuk due to the old hockey trope that Fuhr knew how to win.

[SabresBaltimore]

I think UPL showed last season he could win them games when they played bad. To me the issue is consistency. After a great stretch of games last season, he slumped and then never recovered.

 

With Levi the clear #1 on the team, you just need someone who can go in and win you a game every now and again to give him a break. The breaks may be even more important this year too since Levi's a rookie who hasn't played even played a longer  AHL season, let alone something like the grind of an 82 game NHL season.

 

Comrie was a decent backup before we signed him. We thought maybe he could be a stop gap starter, but that hasn't shown to be the case. However when healthy he's looked like a manageable backup. Sure we'd all love to have a veteran starter who could transition to backup as Levi get acclimated, but that's not happening. At best we'll get other AHL starters or unproven backups.
 

UPL started out terrible last night through 1 and a bit periods, but then seemed to settle in for most of the 2nd and 3rd. The team played terrible in front of him. They always seems to play terrible in front of him. That's my biggest concern. We saw late last year this team play much better defensively. Part of that is likely the pressure of a playoff push, but I think a large factor is Levi.

 

Comrie put up a better showing with mostly AHL defenders against a fairly close to regular season Pens team. But the team hasn't shown to play that much better in front of him compared to Levi either.

 

Personally I think we should keep Comrie and trade/waive UPL, but I think the team is still hoping to get a more consistent version of UPL that looks like what we saw when he had that good stretch last season.

 

It's kind of why I think they are going to go with 3 goalie, maybe at least until Quinn is back or they finally rip the band aid off and pick 1 back-up

[Shoot da Puck]

This is why I never buy season tickets 

The Sabres lose critical road games then down play the importance 

[matter2003]

"The Butler" is likely making this roster...I don't see how they don't keep him up.

[Taro T]

12 hours ago, Buffalo Sabres Fan said:

Grant Fuhr in his prime was way better than Ryan Miller. When the Buffalo Sabres got Grant Fuhr he was at the end of his NHL career. Grant Fuhr playing on one leg is better than Ryan Miller. I am a fan of Ryan Miller but Buffalo fans way overrated Ryan Miller. I get it Ryan Miller is like able did a lot of local charity and was an American born player. But Ryan Miller won no Stanley Cups and basically wanted out of Buffalo. Got his wish and still didn’t win anything in St Louis, Vancouver and Anaheim that isn’t something I would want from Devon Levi. Grant Fuhr is a Stanley Cup winning goalie. That is like saying Tim Horton of the Buffalo Sabres isn’t very good and he was 41 years old as a Buffalo Sabres in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Grant Fuhr of the Sabres was an adequate goalie.  Hasek was way better than him regardless of what point in his career you are looking at.  And, for the Sabres portion of his career, Miller was better than Fuhr.

And the post that you're taking exception to was referring to one that said literally "(t)hat's why Levi is our Grant Fuhr (hopefully) ...".  Well "our Grant Fuhr" wasn't anything special and the post you took exception to was playing off of that phrasing.  But back to your subject, the assets that it cost to bring Fuhr in cost the Sabres the Stanley Cup in '93.  And it's because Muckler refused to see what was in front of him.  Heck, even with that horrible trade, if he's smart enough to play Hasek against Moe-ray-all instead of der Fuhr they very well might've won the SC.  But again, Muckler was too adamant in refusing to believe the results (which Hasek had had at every single level he ever played; he was at the top (not necessarily #1 in the IHL, but up there) of the GT ranks at every stop he had.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

80s Oilers Fuhr was one of the best big game goalies of all time. He never gave up the next goal when his team needed him. 

Both Muckler and Gretzky loved him and wanted him wherever they went. Muckler thought he would solidify the net. Hasek wasn’t Hasek yet and the goaltending was very inconsistent at the time. 

I can see Muckler’s reasoning at the time but I wasn’t a fan of the trade either. They gave up a lot for a goalie who wasn’t his prime self anymore.

Never?  Ever?  Cool story, bro.

So, they won every Stanley Cup of the 80's right because he never ever let in that next goal.

Btw, Steve Smith says 'hi.'  😉

[inkman]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Grant Fuhr of the Sabres was an adequate goalie.  Hasek was way better than him regardless of what point in his career you are looking at.  And, for the Sabres portion of his career, Miller was better than Fuhr.

And the post that you're taking exception to was referring to one that said literally "(t)hat's why Levi is our Grant Fuhr (hopefully) ...".  Well "our Grant Fuhr" wasn't anything special and the post you took exception to was playing off of that phrasing.  But back to your subject, the assets that it cost to bring Fuhr in cost the Sabres the Stanley Cup in '93.  And it's because Muckler refused to see what was in front of him.  Heck, even with that horrible trade, if he's smart enough to play Hasek against Moe-ray-all instead of der Fuhr they very well might've won the SC.  But again, Muckler was too adamant in refusing to believe the results (which Hasek had had at every single level he ever played; he was at the top (not necessarily #1 in the IHL, but up there) of the GT ranks at every stop he had.

Erik Johnson = Sabres Craig Muni 

 

I don’t know I just figured I’d stick with the comp of current Sabres to former Eulers/ Sabres players.  

[matter2003]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Grant Fuhr of the Sabres was an adequate goalie.  Hasek was way better than him regardless of what point in his career you are looking at.  And, for the Sabres portion of his career, Miller was better than Fuhr.

And the post that you're taking exception to was referring to one that said literally "(t)hat's why Levi is our Grant Fuhr (hopefully) ...".  Well "our Grant Fuhr" wasn't anything special and the post you took exception to was playing off of that phrasing.  But back to your subject, the assets that it cost to bring Fuhr in cost the Sabres the Stanley Cup in '93.  And it's because Muckler refused to see what was in front of him.  Heck, even with that horrible trade, if he's smart enough to play Hasek against Moe-ray-all instead of der Fuhr they very well might've won the SC.  But again, Muckler was too adamant in refusing to believe the results (which Hasek had had at every single level he ever played; he was at the top (not necessarily #1 in the IHL, but up there) of the GT ranks at every stop he had.

Goalies back in that timeframe basically put up numbers similar to UPL does now...high .890 save percentages and 3.5ish GAA's...

 

[Taro T]

Just now, inkman said:

Erik Johnson = Sabres Craig Muni 

 

I don’t know I just figured I’d stick with the comp of current Sabres to former Eulers/ Sabres players.  

He's probably more Sabres Charlie Huddy at this stage than Sabres Nuni (pronounced New Knee as it what Donald Audette and several other players needed after one of Muni's patented knee on knee hits).

Hoping we don't have a Craig Simpson.  He never could overcome the back injuries by the time he was a Sabre.  But he was a beast in his prime.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, SabresBaltimore said:

I think UPL showed last season he could win them games when they played bad. To me the issue is consistency. After a great stretch of games last season, he slumped and then never recovered.

 

With Levi the clear #1 on the team, you just need someone who can go in and win you a game every now and again to give him a break. The breaks may be even more important this year too since Levi's a rookie who hasn't played even played a longer  AHL season, let alone something like the grind of an 82 game NHL season.

 

Comrie was a decent backup before we signed him. We thought maybe he could be a stop gap starter, but that hasn't shown to be the case. However when healthy he's looked like a manageable backup. Sure we'd all love to have a veteran starter who could transition to backup as Levi get acclimated, but that's not happening. At best we'll get other AHL starters or unproven backups.
 

UPL started out terrible last night through 1 and a bit periods, but then seemed to settle in for most of the 2nd and 3rd. The team played terrible in front of him. They always seems to play terrible in front of him. That's my biggest concern. We saw late last year this team play much better defensively. Part of that is likely the pressure of a playoff push, but I think a large factor is Levi.

 

Comrie put up a better showing with mostly AHL defenders against a fairly close to regular season Pens team. But the team hasn't shown to play that much better in front of him compared to Levi either.

 

Personally I think we should keep Comrie and trade/waive UPL, but I think the team is still hoping to get a more consistent version of UPL that looks like what we saw when he had that good stretch last season.

 

It's kind of why I think they are going to go with 3 goalie, maybe at least until Quinn is back or they finally rip the band aid off and pick 1 back-up

They play terrible D in front of all 3 goalies (all 4 if you want to include Anderson from last year).  That isn't something that UPL gets to feel special about.

UPL's issue is he isn't going to make that big save when they need it.  He's going to let the back breaking weak goal go in that starts a brief talispin that neither the team nor he are going to work out of before it's a massive struggle to get back into the game.

He may someday become a decent #1.  He's very young in goalie years.  But wouldn't have money on it.  And don't expect him to ever get the mentality that a good backup needs.  UPL has said himself he needs to know the team believes in him and feel that it's his team to be at his best.  Well, as long as #27 is a Sabre, this won't be his team.

If the choice is between the 2; keep Comrie as the backup.  His ceiling is lower, but his floor is a lot higher, and he doesn't need it to be "his" team to play his best.

[LGR4GM]

UPL's best stretch was 4 games in which he posted a 0.92sv%, if you really want you could push that out to a 6 game stretch where he averages a 0.919sv% although that has a 0.893sv% in it so up to you. Outside of that there was really only 1 other time last year where UPL put together more than 2 good games in a row. That was 4 good games. He has approximately 12 games I would call good in which he has a sv% no lower than 0.909. He has 11 games though where his sv% is 0.875 or lower. 

He is wildly inconsistent and played a lot of games not so well. Out of those 11 bad games, the Sabres still won 4 due to goal support. If you think he is going to be the 12 games of good more often this year you keep him. If you think he will be the 11 bad games more often this year, you dump him. 

[SabresBaltimore]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If you think he is going to be the 12 games of good more often this year you keep him. If you think he will be the 11 bad games more often this year, you dump him. 

I think it's the latter, but I worry the team is expecting the former.

I would have loved for UPL to come out like the good version we saw on those 12 occasions and make himself our backup. Age/contract wise he is the better fit. But he didn't do anything to instill confidence for me.

[Taro T]

11 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

UPL's best stretch was 4 games in which he posted a 0.92sv%, if you really want you could push that out to a 6 game stretch where he averages a 0.919sv% although that has a 0.893sv% in it so up to you. Outside of that there was really only 1 other time last year where UPL put together more than 2 good games in a row. That was 4 good games. He has approximately 12 games I would call good in which he has a sv% no lower than 0.909. He has 11 games though where his sv% is 0.875 or lower. 

He is wildly inconsistent and played a lot of games not so well. Out of those 11 bad games, the Sabres still won 4 due to goal support. If you think he is going to be the 12 games of good more often this year you keep him. If you think he will be the 11 bad games more often this year, you dump him. 

Pretty much.  

Though he may improve down the road, right now he is what he is.  And, with him only getting into every 3rd game or so, they can't be getting good UPL 40% of the time and Regular UPL the other 60% (and with being out of rhythm, expect that's about the best they can hope for) and be calling that good enough.

The backup typically plays the weaker teams.  Plan on not going balls to the wall offense against them and put Comrie in behind the "defensively responsible 2023-24 Buffalo Sabres."  They'll still outscore the bad teams and keep Levi ready for the games they need him to bail out the "high flying 2023-24 Buffalo Sabres."  Comrie typically won't give up the horrible goal that blows up that lower octane approach.  UPL very well could and when he does they'll have to swap back to the high octane approach and hope UPL doesn't face any odd man rushes at that point.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, SabresBaltimore said:

I think it's the latter, but I worry the team is expecting the former.

I would have loved for UPL to come out like the good version we saw on those 12 occasions and make himself our backup. Age/contract wise he is the better fit. But he didn't do anything to instill confidence for me.

UPL showed in this presesaon exactly what he'll give in the RS.  It's the same he gave down the stretch last regular season.  There was a reason Comrie was usually the guy sitting on the bench when Levi was in there.  Hopefully, Adams, Granato, and Bales have seen enough to remember why that was.

And, if Comrie absolutely pukes all over himself against the Pens, could see them going with the 3 headed monster.  But if he doesn't, just can't see a reason to expose all 3 of Comrie, Biro, and Rousek to waivers to avoid having to do so with UPL.

[SabresBaltimore]

38 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Rousek to waivers

I don't think Rousek has to pass through waivers yet.

 

Also, if we do waive UPL, I think they're more likely to risk Biro to waivers than Clague, but I could be wrong.

[Flashsabre]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Never?  Ever?  Cool story, bro.

So, they won every Stanley Cup of the 80's right because he never ever let in that next goal.

Btw, Steve Smith says 'hi.'  😉

I don’t know if this post is an awful attempt at humor or you just didn’t watch hockey in the 80s and don’t know what your talking about. Explain to me how the Steve Smith goal was Fuhr’s fault. 

And for the record when the best players in the world like Gretzky and Messier say Fuhr was the best big game goalie of the era their opinions hold a ton more value then some guy in a message board. 

[LabattBlue]

5 hours ago, matter2003 said:

"The Butler" is likely making this roster...I don't see how they don't keep him up.

Who?

[matter2003]

5 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Who?

Benson...I might be dating myself with that reference...

There was a sitcom on TV in the late 70s to mid 80s called "Benson" where Benson DuBois(played by Robert Guillaume) started as a Butler/head of household for the governor and ended up running against his "boss" for governor in the final season of the show...

It was a pretty funny show, remember watching it with my parents several times growing up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benson_(TV_series)

Edited October 5, 2023 by matter2003

[LabattBlue]

20 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Benson...I might be dating myself with that reference...

There was a sitcom on TV in the late 70s to mid 80s called "Benson" where Benson DuBois(played by Robert Guillaume) started as a Butler/head of household for the governor and ended up running against his "boss" for governor in the final season of the show...

It was a pretty funny show, remember watching it with my parents several times growing up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benson_(TV_series)

Remember hearing of it, never saw it. 😂

[Weave]

53 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Benson...I might be dating myself with that reference...

There was a sitcom on TV in the late 70s to mid 80s called "Benson" where Benson DuBois(played by Robert Guillaume) started as a Butler/head of household for the governor and ended up running against his "boss" for governor in the final season of the show...

It was a pretty funny show, remember watching it with my parents several times growing up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benson_(TV_series)

Great show.  Didn’t get the reference until this post.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I don’t know if this post is an awful attempt at humor or you just didn’t watch hockey in the 80s and don’t know what your talking about. Explain to me how the Steve Smith goal was Fuhr’s fault. 

And for the record when the best players in the world like Gretzky and Messier say Fuhr was the best big game goalie of the era their opinions hold a ton more value then some guy in a message board. 

Umm, maybe he should've been back on his flippin' goal line.  The play is absolutely on Smith.  But if Fuhr is paying attention to details, that doesn't happen.

And, really, 2 guys that were teammates of a player for years say he was the best.  That's pretty shocking.  Never, ever do we see such testimonials in pro sports.

 

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, SabresBaltimore said:

I don't think Rousek has to pass through waivers yet.

 

Also, if we do waive UPL, I think they're more likely to risk Biro to waivers than Clague, but I could be wrong.

Yep.  Rousek signed at 22 and is entering his 3rd pro season, so he's still waiver exempt this year.

🍻

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Umm, maybe he should've been back on his flippin' goal line.  The play is absolutely on Smith.  But if Fuhr is paying attention to details, that doesn't happen.

And, really, 2 guys that were teammates of a player for years say he was the best.  That's pretty shocking.  Never, ever do we see such testimonials in pro sports.

 

Uh two of the best players to ever play.  Fuhr was a great big game goalie in the 80s. The goalie the Sabres traded for in the 90s wasn’t the same player. It was a bad trade that I didn’t like at the time but I do see Muckler’s view on it. He liked his guys that he won with. That is why Simpson, Huddy and Muni were brought in.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Flashsabre