Sabel79 Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 5 hours ago, dudacek said: People seem to be ignoring that since UPL got some early call-up yips out of the way, this is exactly what he has done. The league average save % is .906 right now. Since mid-December, UPL's save % is .910. I agree with @PromoTheRobot that UPL has been fine. It would be nice to have better. 5 hours ago, MBD said: I don't agree. If the Sabres played tight defense, I would. He’s still sub-900 on the season and there’s a lot of season left for him to pull that down further, which he very well might do considering his historical numbers. Defense notwithstanding I don’t trust him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Sabel79 said: He’s still sub-900 on the season and there’s a lot of season left for him to pull that down further, which he very well might do considering his historical numbers. Defense notwithstanding I don’t trust him. His historical numbers show a .904 NHL goalie. He was .917 last year. History suggests pulling his numbers up, which is what has been happening. He has 5 absolutely terrible starts where he was under .850 in his save percentage. He also has 5 fantastic starts when he was over .940. 4 of those crappy starts were in his 1st 6 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKB1646 Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 On 2/16/2023 at 4:27 PM, Flashsabre said: And another thing....😀 There are are certain athletes in sports that just look different. That just pop when you watch them play. Levi is one of them. He just looks special. His combination of skating ability, tracking, concentration and positioning and quickness make him stand out among his peers. It still sticks in my craw that the Olympic team didn’t give him the net for a game. He has the pedigree, ability and attitude to be special. I think he signs this season. My worry is if he plays in Rochester next year while the Sabres go with UPL and Comrie and it doesn’t improve that there will be a ton of pressure to call him up prematurely. He is not a kid who rushes through anything with his career. I wanna know how a dude this tall 6'-0" has a 40" waste? WTF Thats the pants size of a beer dad in Kaiser town! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 8 hours ago, dudacek said: His historical numbers show a .904 NHL goalie. He was .917 last year. History suggests pulling his numbers up, which is what has been happening. He has 5 absolutely terrible starts where he was under .850 in his save percentage. He also has 5 fantastic starts when he was over .940. 4 of those crappy starts were in his 1st 6 games. This is my concern with UPL. He isn't consistent enough and idk if that will change but we can only hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: I never said that. What I said was I don't get why people see him as inadequate. I would assume that many see him as inadequate because, despite some very good games, he has stopped pucks at a below league average rate overall, by just about any metric you can find. It’s fine if you believe that he will be a good (or even great!) starter going forward, but he simply has not produced a substantial body of work that shows a trend in that direction. He has been alright for a young goalie, and he can certainly continue to improve, but his performance simply has not tracked with what you would expect from a future top end goalie. I don’t think you should be surprised that most people need to see more from UPL before they buy into him as a good long term starter. Edited February 20, 2023 by Curt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Curt said: I would assume that many see him as inadequate because, despite some very good games, he has stopped pucks at a below league average rate overall, by just about any metric you can find. Stats versus results. What's more important? Wins or save percentage? The Sabres win games when UPL plays. He might let in an extra goal or two, but he makes critical saves when the team needs them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Stats versus results. What's more important? Wins or save percentage? The Sabres win games when UPL plays. He might let in an extra goal or two, but he makes critical saves when the team needs them. This doesn't make any sense. You are saying that wins are a goalie stat when we know they are a team stat. If Comrie allows 3 goals a game but they lose he sucks but if UPL allowed 5 goals a game and they win, he is good? It just doesn't make sense. The Sabres win when UPL plays because he has played more games in front of the starting defense than any other goalie on this roster. His sv% is still questionable. The bolded just unravels everything else. He might let in an extra goal or two which is why he has to make that later critical save. You are saying, "yea I got food poisoning but because the hospital gave me medicine is doesn't matter so I will go eat at the buffet again." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Stats versus results. What's more important? Wins or save percentage? The Sabres win games when UPL plays. He might let in an extra goal or two, but he makes critical saves when the team needs them. I’ll take wins over SV% every day. However, are wins sustainable with mediocre numbers? He is young enough to improve and I want to see it. He gets a lot of run support that might not always be there. Edited February 20, 2023 by French Collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: This doesn't make any sense. You are saying that wins are a goalie stat when we know they are a team stat. If Comrie allows 3 goals a game but they lose he sucks but if UPL allowed 5 goals a game and they win, he is good? It just doesn't make sense. The Sabres win when UPL plays because he has played more games in front of the starting defense than any other goalie on this roster. His sv% is still questionable. The bolded just unravels everything else. He might let in an extra goal or two which is why he has to make that later critical save. You are saying, "yea I got food poisoning but because the hospital gave me medicine is doesn't matter so I will go eat at the buffet again." Plus they are 1-2-1 in his last 4 starts. Strange timing to be running with an all he does is win argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, French Collection said: I’ll take wins over SV% every day. However, are wins sustainable with mediocre numbers? He is young enough to improve and I want to see it. He gets a lot of run support that might always be there. No, wins typically are not sustainable with mediocre gsaa and sv% numbers. Regression comes for us all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 28 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: No, wins typically are not sustainable with mediocre gsaa and sv% numbers. Regression comes for us all. Agree, I edited my post. I meant that his run support won’t always be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBD Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Curt said: I would assume that many see him as inadequate because, despite some very good games, he has stopped pucks at a below league average rate overall, by just about any metric you can find. It’s fine if you believe that he will be a good (or even great!) starter going forward, but he simply has not produced a substantial body of work that shows a trend in that direction. He has been alright for a young goalie, and he can certainly continue to improve, but his performance simply has not tracked with what you would expect from a future top end goalie. I don’t think you should be surprised that most people need to see more from UPL before they buy into him as a good long term starter. Give him until his 8th season… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Stats versus results. What's more important? Wins or save percentage? The Sabres win games when UPL plays. He might let in an extra goal or two, but he makes critical saves when the team needs them. This is devoid of logic. Wins are not a star that can be attributed merely to the goalie. He lets in extra goals but makes important saves when it counts??? It doesn’t matter if a goal is let in as an “extra” goal or let in at a “critical” time. They count the same. Maybe if he let in fewer “extra” goals, there wouldn’t be as many “critical” times when the team needs a save. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Taro T said: Plus they are 1-2-1 in his last 4 starts. Strange timing to be running with an all he does is win argument. Was there a reason why you limited your range to his last 4 starts? Hmmm? Let's see how he's done the full season... https://www.nhl.com/player/ukko-pekka-luukkonen-8480045?stats=gamelogs-r-nhl&season=20222023 Oooooh, lookee! 14-7. Why that isn't bad at all, is it? I'm sure you weren't trying to spin an argument here. Edited February 20, 2023 by PromoTheRobot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 hours ago, French Collection said: I’ll take wins over SV% every day. However, are wins sustainable with mediocre numbers? He is young enough to improve and I want to see it. He gets a lot of run support that might not always be there. Now we bring in the sustainability trope, which is entirely an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) The Goalie need crew here. I get it to a point. UPL is still raw and Cromrie is just getting healthy. No arguments. Yet, do you think Hasek or Miller in their prime would have a high save % and glowing GA average with this team ? Good God. They think getting back on D is for other teams all too often. Get caught constantly pinching deep and never have I seen our Goalie facing this many 2 on 1 breaks or flat out breakaways. Never clear traffic in front of the net. Opponents always stand in the crease with zero fear of being moved out. Soft in the corners and losing key faceoffs in their own end. A lot of it is youth and I get that. Still bullish going forward but this team has to help their own goalie. Lots of factors for those flashy goalie stats we all can produce in 15 seconds with a few clicks. Edited February 20, 2023 by Night Train 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Now we bring in the sustainability trope, which is entirely an opinion. I’m not denying he is our best goalie option. He is winning games. I am just saying unless he improves his numbers, the wins will be tougher to come by. They can make the playoffs with him if they continue to score a lot. A sub .900 SV% will be tough to win with in the playoffs. Anyway, this is a Levi thread and he is my guy until we know more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Was there a reason why you limited your range to his last 4 starts? Hmmm? Let's see how he's done the full season... https://www.nhl.com/player/ukko-pekka-luukkonen-8480045?stats=gamelogs-r-nhl&season=20222023 Oooooh, lookee! 14-7. Why that isn't bad at all, is it? I'm sure you weren't trying to spin an argument here. 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Now we bring in the sustainability trope, which is entirely an opinion. I don't even know how to attack this argument because it doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, French Collection said: I’m not denying he is our best goalie option. He is winning games. I am just saying unless he improves his numbers, the wins will be tougher to come by. They can make the playoffs with him if they continue to score a lot. A sub .900 SV% will be tough to win with in the playoffs. Anyway, this is a Levi thread and he is my guy until we know more. Then what's the problem? The perfect goalie is never going to show up one day. UPL is doing fine. Devon Levi will contend for the job soon. Then Leinonen after him. Best man plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, PromoTheRobot said: Then what's the problem? The perfect goalie is never going to show up one day. UPL is doing fine. Devon Levi will contend for the job soon. Then Leinonen after him. Best man plays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kas23 Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 15 hours ago, JKB1646 said: I wanna know how a dude this tall 6'-0" has a 40" waste? WTF Thats the pants size of a beer dad in Kaiser town! That boy THICC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: I don't even know how to attack this argument because it doesn't make sense to me. When people speak of sustainability, it's an opinion that things are too good right now and will only get worse. Can't be disproven because it's an opinion. And the other part was citing only the last 4 games to disparage UPL and ignoring his season long performance which has been quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: When people speak of sustainability, it's an opinion that things are too good right now and will only get worse. Can't be disproven because it's an opinion. And the other part was citing only the last 4 games to disparage UPL and ignoring his season long performance which has been quite good. I think it's an opinion that wins show a goalie is good, tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: I think it's an opinion that wins show a goalie is good, tbh No those are results. You win or you lose. And if you watch the games you can tell how many critical saves are made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 20, 2023 Report Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: No those are results. You win or you lose. And if you watch the games you can tell how many critical saves are made. ... yes after they become critical after you let in 3 bad goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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