What we’ve learned from the Jack Eichel conclusion

[Doohickie]

7 hours ago, dudacek said:

I also think Terry Pegula decided to hold Jack's health and his manager's ability to trade him hostage for petty, personal reasons. Handcuffing the manager is just more fuel for the burning tire fire that's built up over the past decade. It's sad but expected. The messing with the health thing is just being a bad human being.

Let's see how Eichel comes out of surgery before you pass judgment on that.  I think it could also be entirely possible that Terry (informed by the liability and insurance issues) thought he was protecting Eichel from himself.  That if Eichel comes out of the surgery poorly, or later suffers a debilitating injury related to the surgery, Terry didn't want to live with with the responsibility of having approved the procedure.

[Doohickie]

6 hours ago, inkman said:

Y’all have a lot more time and energy than I do

It's the herb, I'm tellin' ya.

[thewookie1]

2 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Let's see how Eichel comes out of surgery before you pass judgment on that.  I think it could also be entirely possible that Terry (informed by the liability and insurance issues) thought he was protecting Eichel from himself.  That if Eichel comes out of the surgery poorly, or later suffers a debilitating injury related to the surgery, Terry didn't want to live with with the responsibility of having approved the procedure.

I’d lean on this side more than Terry wanting Eichel to suffer. If Eichel does end up having a serious problem due to the surgery; how would the Sabres ownership live with themselves for giving into Eichel’s demands again.

[Doohickie]

6 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think he ended the 2020 season — one where he personally did everything he could —seriously doubting that this organization was capable of winning.

I wonder what direction this all would have taken if the Sabres had squeaked into the playoffs then.  It's a little different than I remembered; I seemed to think we had more points than Montreal but they had a better winning percentage and so they made the playoffs.  That was wrong, Montreal had both a better winning percentage and number of standings points, but the Sabres had two games in hand and if they had had the opportunity to play those games and won them, they would have beaten out Montreal. 

The point is they were close, very close, to the playoffs that season.  Had they made it in, does this whole unfold differently?

[kas23]

4 hours ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Not really.  It's been a very complex situation, and just as we all build our narratives of what happened, Jack built a narrative from his viewpoint.  He doesn't know what Adams' plan really was, whether the Pegulas were in favor or it or not.  He not unreasonably drew conclusions but some aspects may have been spot on and some might have been wrong. 

This is probably closer to the truth, which I don’t think we have a firm grasp on, nor will we ever. Let’s say KA tells Jack he wants to rebuild. The first question a reasonable person would have is “as the most talented player on the team, where the heck do I fit into this?” I doubt KA meant to strip everything to the studs, while keeping Jack still on the team. That’s not a real rebuild. Maybe there were some nonverbal cues that made Jack feel unwanted, he threw a fit, and demanded that HE was going to be the one calling shots and demanded a trade. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by kas23

[Doohickie]

6 hours ago, Believer said:

Will be interesting to see his impact on the Knights if he returns to form after his surgery…

I think it will be interesting to see his impact on the Knights when he *doesn't* return to form after his surgery.  I bet the VGK will wonder how Adams could have bilked them for so much when he spends 30 games a year injured and is never the player he was in 2020.

6 hours ago, Indabuff said:

CliffsNotes:  Fire Terry!

Nope.  I think KA is the GM that will make him look like a good owner.

[Doohickie]

6 hours ago, SDS said:

You come from a position that assumes we all read in detail everything you write, all 24k messages, digest it in context, and remember it exactly how it happened.

FYI, I have the memory of a ham sandwich. If you ever get frustrated with me - remember that in all likelihood - I just don't remember (if I read it at all).

I have 25k posts and I can't remember even a few percent of them myself.

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

I have a photographic memory. My short term memory in recent years has, admittedly taken a self imposed... “hit”, seems appropriate, here. If you catch my drift

I'm sure @inkman does.

[Doohickie]

5 hours ago, Ogelthorpe said:

You got that right. Lol. Just so disappointing.  Loved the pick when it happened. However looking back on Murray's reaction to the lottery he must have heard some whispers about Jack's character. Then bringing in 2 of the leagues biggest partiers did not help. 

You give XGMTM too much credit.  He just hated losing.  If he had any concerns about Jack's character, why would he bring in Bogo and Kane?

[Doohickie]

5 hours ago, Norcal said:

Missing out on McDavid after tanking so hard set this franchise back several years.

They are only now starting to build back the right way.

Nope.  They would have squandered McJesus too.  XGMTM would have made the same mistakes.

Edited November 9, 2021 by The Ghost of Yuri

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, Norcal said:

Does McDavid party? 

The question is would he have partied if Kane and Bogo were his best buds.

4 hours ago, spndnchz said:

I have an extra washing machine. Just to sit on and read books.

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, rickshaw said:

Reino, Sam and Jack

Do you mean Risto, Sam and Jack (seeing as how Reino and Sam are the same person)?

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, SabresVet said:

In other words, as GM, tell Terry you agree and then get as close as possible to doing the opposite without losing your job. 

I don't think that's what KA is doing at all.  I think he's building consensus with the Pegulas and getting their buy-in on his plan for the team.  He listens to them and to the extent that it helps the team, he implements their suggestions (ok then, no retained salary on Jack).  But I think when he disagrees with them he sells why he wants to do whatever it is and convinces them to back his plan.  No toadying, no rebellion, just honest two-way dialogue.

2 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Is fusion less likely to fail in the event of a heavy collision?  Or is it simply because of lack of evidence?

This is probably the crux of the disagreement between the team and Jack on treatment.  One side sees it one way and the other side sees it the other.

[Doohickie]

53 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Perhaps Kevyn hoped he could get Reinhart to stick around regardless of Jack and the past. If he were on the fence, Adams may have hoped to get him to shake off onto our side.

I don't think so.  I think his decision was already made when he became GM.  He knew the team well and had insight into locker room dynamics.  The fact that Reino said he would of signed a longer deal at the time but it was not offered is telling.

[Doohickie]

Sorry to have dominated this page thus far.  BUT I'm finally caught up on the thread.

[SabresVet]

13 minutes ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

I don't think that's what KA is doing at all.  I think he's building consensus with the Pegulas and getting their buy-in on his plan for the team.  He listens to them and to the extent that it helps the team, he implements their suggestions (ok then, no retained salary on Jack).  But I think when he disagrees with them he sells why he wants to do whatever it is and convinces them to back his plan.  No toadying, no rebellion, just honest two-way dialogue.

This is probably the crux of the disagreement between the team and Jack on treatment.  One side sees it one way and the other side sees it the other.

That's a nice thought, but billionaires typically get their way.  There is a financial component to this franchise and it's going to impact decision making.  As in, 40% of the seats are being sold right now.  Think Terry or Kim won't eventually look for a way to generate interest in the team?  I could see Quinn, Peterka, or Krebs being called up even though Rochester is the best place for them. 

The Pegula's are so tone-deaf and I don't expect them to stand in the corner observing and agreeing...no matter who the GM is. 

[Doohickie]

9 minutes ago, SabresVet said:

That's a nice thought, but billionaires typically get their way.  There is a financial component to this franchise and it's going to impact decision making.  As in, 40% of the seats are being sold right now.  Think Terry or Kim won't eventually look for a way to generate interest in the team?  I could see Quinn, Peterka, or Krebs being called up even though Rochester is the best place for them. 

The Pegula's are so tone-deaf and I don't expect them to stand in the corner observing and agreeing...no matter who the GM is. 

Billionaires get to be billionaires by hiring and keeping good people, and delegating responsibilities to them.  Yes they ***** up the first two GM hires; they did not jive with what they wanted to do at all.  I get the sense that Kevyn is more in tune not just with their direction of the team, but with their personalities and can effectively communicate with them to change their direction when it is flawed from a hockey perspective.  There's a level of trust both ways between ownership and GM.

[Thorny]

Is this the thread McDavid came up? He isn’t even leading his own team in points right now. Imagine being one of the best ever, and that being the case? And how much playoff success have they had? 

Two hall of famers have struggled to carry a team. I, for one, am shocked Eichel couldn’t carry Jimmy Vesey to the playoffs 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Thorny
Edit - Draisaitl has 23 points in 10 games lol

[darksabre]

32 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Is this the thread McDavid came up? He isn’t even leading his own team in points right now. Imagine being one of the best ever, and that being the case? And how much playoff success have they had? 

Two hall of famers have struggled to carry a team. I, for one, am shocked Eichel couldn’t carry Jimmy Vesey to the playoffs 

I'm always gonna be bummed, btw, that we didn't take Draisaitl in that draft. I didn't have a problem with Sam but I definitely liked Draisaitl more. Bluh. 

 

[JoeSchmoe]

Did anyone learn not to waste time speculating on a thread nearly 400 pages long.

[spndnchz]

No games for the next what 3 or 4 days. This is what you get. 

[Digger]

1 hour ago, The Ghost of Yuri said:

Sorry to have dominated this page thus far.  BUT I'm finally caught up on the thread.

Now I feel bad that I skipped to the end.  Good for you reading all the posts.

[calti]

21 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Nothing really surprising. We all knew for years if we didn’t get to the playoffs sooner, rather than later, Jack was going to request a trade. We were talking about it 3 years ago. Jack was never really happy playing for this organization and you can’t blame him. The mismanagement of this team was mindboggling on every level. He wasn’t going to waste his prime years here. Can you imagine being Jack on this team this year? Yikes. He’d be about 27-28 before we are competitive again IF we hit on picks and development. It’s a no brainer if I’m Jack. 

Pegula--hard to root for that guy. What a mess.

He certainly is a helluva oil and gas man though.

[K-9]

9 hours ago, pi2000 said:

 

Is fusion less likely to fail in the event of a heavy collision?  Or is it simply because of lack of evidence?

It seems your idea of concern about a heavy collision is on point. 

I just watched the NHL Now interview with KA from earlier today and he was asked why the Sabres didn’t want the ADR. KA spoke of Dr. Cappuccino as the Sabres doctor authoring their medical opinion, qualified him as a pioneer in the procedure who has performed more ADR surgeries than anyone and is perhaps the foremost authority in the world on the subject. Adams made it sound like Cappuccino didn’t recommend the ADR because of the rigors of the game. So your idea of the concern about a heavy collision is well founded. That also dovetails with what the orthopedic surgeon told me about fusion offering more stability. 

Adams did a good job over the course of the 12 minute interview.

[Gabrielor]

15 hours ago, SabresVet said:

In other words, as GM, tell Terry you agree and then get as close as possible to doing the opposite without losing your job. 

If the Sabres ever become successful again, it'll be in spite of bad ownership.  Not because of it. 

Oh, I wouldn't be GM long haha.

 

I'd tell the Pegula's pretty early on they're idiots. I'd try to hold out for 1-2 paychecks though.

[Doohickie]

6 hours ago, K-9 said:

I just watched the NHL Now interview with KA from earlier today

Is this the segment?

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/nhl-now-kevyn-adams/t-277437090/c-9466822