Which Sabre Benefited Most Last Season from Granato Taking Over As Coach? And Who Will Emerge This Season?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Which Sabre Benefited Most Last Season from Granato Taking Over As Coach?

We have seen the night and day comparisons for guys like Bryson, Mitts, Skinner, Asplund, Thompson and others.  So who in your mind benefitted most from the change.

My opinion might surprise some, but I think Dahlin benefited the most from the change.  It was like a 300 lbs ball and chain was removed from his ankle and he was free to play as the hockey gods intended.  Mitts was a close second.

So who will benefit most this season?  Cozens is an obvious choice because he wore down as the season progressed and is almost certainly going to be one of our most improved players this coming season.  However the guy I see really taking another step up under Granato is Asplund.  We really didn't notice, until he played with Mitts, but this guy has actually improved statistically each year he has played pro hockey.  The only step backs if you will is when he entered a new league.  

2014-15 - .085 pts/gp SHL

2015-16 - .26 SHL

2016-17 - .49 SHL

2017-18 - .56 SHL

2018-19 - .55 AHL (New league & 1st in NA)

2019-20 - .58 AHL

2019-20 - .10 NHL

2020-21 - .39 NHL  (32 pt pace)

Granato loved him playing on Mitts or Cozens wing last season and I suspect he'll play with one of those 2 this season and put up over 40 points.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by GASabresIUFAN

[PerreaultForever]

So far 100% Dahlin and it did seem the obvious answer to me. 

Cozens was actually the guy who took a step backwards under Granato. The view is optimistically that he wore down as an overplayed rookie not used to it, but it is also possible he preferred the tighter style of Kreuger hockey. We shall see this season, 

[thewookie1]

I'd have to say Mitts for both.

While Dahlin certainly returned to his rookie form of dynamic; it was more of a weight being lifted off his back.

Mitts was seen a borderline bust and yet under Granato honestly looked like a Top 10 Draft pick. I see his game further blossoming next year in leaps and bounds as the "newly motivated and mature" Mitts begins to show more of what made him such a special player at the WJC.

Dahlin would be my 2nd choice as I think we will see continued growth from him however Dmen tend to grow at a slower pace. Likewise, barring Dahlin being a Norris candidate next year I doubt his improvement could out weight Mitts. If Dahlin goes from 50% to 75% that's great, but in this case Mitts was at 25% and achieving 75% would be a larger achievement.

[JohnC]

I would say Dahlin benefited the most with Mitts being the second most beneficiary of the Granato effect. I thought the Asplund/Mitts combo fit well together where each player fed off of each other. Of the veterans I thought that Okposo was revitalized as a player under Granato. 

The one player who needs to step up his game is Thompson. Granato was not going to allow him to play an unfocused and meandering style of play. When Thompson played too loosely and lost his connection to his linemates the coach intervened and took away his minutes, and even sat him. That got his attention. Coming into camp he needs to show some urgency and recognize that if he doesn't seize the opportunity he has that he will fall by the wayside. It's time to put up or sink into the pool of mediocrity and irrelevance. 

[Doohickie]

I'm going to say Thompson and Skinner.

There's no denying that Mitts emerged as a better-than-average center, but Tage never looked comfortable out there until Granato started coaching.  And he's finally starting to use his size to best advantage.

I say Skinner mostly out of hope:  he really needs to get back on the ball and I hope that will be one of Granato's early season projects.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Granato has Ellis work with Skinner on his team skills (I think his individual skill set is fine).

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I would say Dahlin benefited the most with Mitts being the second most beneficiary of the Granato effect. I thought the Asplund/Mitts combo fit well together where each player fed off of each other. Of the veterans I thought that Okposo was revitalized as a player under Granato. 

The one player who needs to step up his game is Thompson. Granato was not going to allow him to play an unfocused and meandering style of play. When Thompson played too loosely and lost his connection to his linemates the coach intervened and took away his minutes, and even sat him. That got his attention. Coming into camp he needs to show some urgency and recognize that if he doesn't seize the opportunity he has that he will fall by the wayside. It's time to put up or sink into the pool of mediocrity and irrelevance. 

If I were a betting man, Tage will sink. He lacks the hockey brain to put all his tools together consistently. 

[Drag0nDan]

I voted for Okposo at something... he really did play a lot better under granato once he was off the eakin line.  

For next year i picked skinner - he has a shot to play a lot better with some linemates who can actually contribute offensively.

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

If I were a betting man, Tage will sink. He lacks the hockey brain to put all his tools together consistently. 

He needs to put on some LBs and simplify his game.  He's not 6'7 lemieux - be a 6'7 hockey player.  Get to dirty areas, be a net front presence and play sound in your own end. 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

If I were a betting man, Tage will sink. He lacks the hockey brain to put all his tools together consistently. 

I think players like that are the precise reason Granato is coach.  He's done a ton of player development and so did his staff last year (and possibly this year as well).  Tage has the tools and he’s shown he can use them, now it just needs to become habitual and ingrained. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Doohickie

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

If I were a betting man, Tage will sink. He lacks the hockey brain to put all his tools together consistently. 

You are astutely hitting on the issue that will determine whether he can play in this league. The parts are there to his game but they are not working in unison or on a regular basis. With him there are times that when his episodic play will tantalize you. However, when you tally his overall production per ice time it is doesn't come close to meeting one's expectation. He needs hard coaching and to be held to account. I believe under Granato he will get it. Tage has had more than enough time to grow into his body and be acclimated to the NHL game. It's put up or take a hike time.

[LGR4GM]

14 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You are astutely hitting on the issue that will determine whether he can play in this league. The parts are there to his game but they are not working in unison or on a regular basis. With him there are times that when his episodic play will tantalize you. However, when you tally his overall production per ice time it is doesn't come close to meeting one's expectation. He needs hard coaching and to be held to account. I believe under Granato he will get it. Tage has had more than enough time to grow into his body and be acclimated to the NHL game. It's put up or take a hike time.

If there is one skill in all of hockey I do not believe you can teach after a certain point, it is that ability to instinctively know and anticipate the ice and the players around it. How they will react and where they will go. Tage has almost no feel other than basic level stuff he can easily see. 

[Drag0nDan]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

If there is one skill in all of hockey I do not believe you can teach after a certain point, it is that ability to instinctively know and anticipate the ice and the players around it. How they will react and where they will go. Tage has almost no feel other than basic level stuff he can easily see. 

Right - his issues are not going to be worked out in a gym.  Learning to play without the puck is the hardest part of that nhl transition.  You can't skate around everyone, and his constant falling all around tells me he's trying to do way too much.  The game happens fast - shorten the passes, don't hold the puck too much, and fore/back check like a mad man.  At least become a useful bottom 6 winger who can chip in some goals with a nice shot.  

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If there is one skill in all of hockey I do not believe you can teach after a certain point, it is that ability to instinctively know and anticipate the ice and the players around it. How they will react and where they will go. Tage has almost no feel other than basic level stuff he can easily see. 

Tage will never be a player who will attain a high-level of hockey intelligence like Reinhart has. If you don't have it you don't have it. But I'm more optimistic than you are that he can raise his intelligence quotient a little more to the point of adequacy. If hard coaching doesn't work this year then he will fade into oblivion.  

[Gatorman0519]

Dahlin was simple to fix. But what impressed me was Mitts. That was an astonishing turn around. Tage looked good too. I’m not sure if R2 was Granato or he’s just that skilled and was a great pick up by JBot. 

[Taro T]

Which Sabre benefitted the most?  Reinhart.  Hands down.  Granato gave him an extra $2MM/year on his next contract by his usage easily.  Nobody else got more directly from that coaching change than Sam will have gotten.

Would expect that should he get time w/ the big club that Quinn will benefit the most this coming season as he would either not have gotten the callup with Krueger still the HC or if he did, he'd find himself attached at the hip to Eakin.  Either way, Granato will be a benefit to him.

[Taro T]

17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Tage will never be a player who will attain a high-level of hockey intelligence like Reinhart has. If you don't have it you don't have it. But I'm more optimistic than you are that he can raise his intelligence quotient a little more to the point of adequacy. If hard coaching doesn't work this year then he will fade into oblivion.  

Sadly, pretty sure Thompson's hockey IQ was on full display in his 1 game stint in the COVID shortened season.  He gets checked towards the boards and raises his arm to brace himself which caused him to tear up his shoulder.  He's been taught how to take a hit at minimum since he was 9 years old.  If something that simple isn't innate for him yet, Houston, we might have a problem.

Am still hoping he grows into that frame and that stuff like that was more due to awkwardness which can be overcome than intelligence which will be much more difficult to do so.  But am not particularly hopeful.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Here is the split info

 

[JohnC]

39 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Sadly, pretty sure Thompson's hockey IQ was on full display in his 1 game stint in the COVID shortened season.  He gets checked towards the boards and raises his arm to brace himself which caused him to tear up his shoulder.  He's been taught how to take a hit at minimum since he was 9 years old.  If something that simple isn't innate for him yet, Houston, we might have a problem.

Am still hoping he grows into that frame and that stuff like that was more due to awkwardness which can be overcome than intelligence which will be much more difficult to do so.  But am not particularly hopeful.

The sentiment that you are expressing corresponds to my sentiment about him. He has been given time to physically mature and be prepared to play at a NHL level. That forbearance has run its course. It's now time for him to show if he can play in this league or if he is nothing but a insignificant fringe player who periodically can tantalize you with a skilled play. Those are the type of players that you simply can't rely on. 

Am I a hopeful about his prospects? I just can't say. And not being able to be more decisive about him is in itself an indictment of him. If he can elevate his baseline of play it would be helpful in the rebuilding of the roster with the younger core. Now he needs to show it if he can. I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt. 

[Drag0nDan]

52 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the split info

 

The okposo and skinner jumps are pretty substantial there.  Same with Tage.  

[LGR4GM]

55 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the split info

a

 

Reinhart and Dahlin are talented enough to produce offense even in Ralphies low event snooze fest. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

If there is one skill in all of hockey I do not believe you can teach after a certain point, it is that ability to instinctively know and anticipate the ice and the players around it. How they will react and where they will go. Tage has almost no feel other than basic level stuff he can easily see. 

Agree completely with certain themes of this post and not with others.

I think learning what you should and shouldn’t and can and cannot do at NHL pace is the hardest thing to learn, that some never get it, and that this is the biggest question with Tage.

However, I also think it is where we have seen a lot of growth from him as well. 2018-19 Tage was absolutely terrible at this. It was obvious he couldn’t process at an NHL level. Finishing last year it was obvious he could, just not as consistently as you want him to.

The question is, can he continue growing or have we seen his ceiling?

Next year will effectively be his first full season starting the year as a full-fledged NHLer who believes he has made the team, with a coach who thinks seeing him develop is a priority. Very interested to see how he does in that environment.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Agree completely with certain themes of this post and not with others.

I think learning what you should and shouldn’t and can and cannot do at NHL pace is the hardest thing to learn, that some never get it, and that this is the biggest question with Tage.

However, I also think it is where we have seen a lot of growth from him as well. 2018-19 Tage was absolutely terrible at this. It was obvious he couldn’t process at an NHL level. Finishing last year it was obvious he could, just not as consistently as you want him to.

The question is, can he continue growing or have we seen his ceiling?

Next year will effectively be his first full season starting the year as a full-fledged NHLer who believes he has made the team, with a coach who thinks seeing him develop is a priority. Very interested to see how he does in that environment.

Tage is going to enter Risto territory for development soon. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Agree completely with certain themes of this post and not with others.

I think learning what you should and shouldn’t and can and cannot do at NHL pace is the hardest thing to learn, that some never get it, and that this is the biggest question with Tage.

However, I also think it is where we have seen a lot of growth from him as well. 2018-19 Tage was absolutely terrible at this. It was obvious he couldn’t process at an NHL level. Finishing last year it was obvious he could, just not as consistently as you want him to.

The question is, can he continue growing or have we seen his ceiling?

Next year will effectively be his first full season starting the year as a full-fledged NHLer who believes he has made the team, with a coach who thinks seeing him develop is a priority. Very interested to see how he does in that environment.

I think that the ability to process multiple events at once and correctly understand where that goes is really something that either has to be developed really young or else you are never going to be very good at it. Tage does not see or understand how things are going to unfold. The Reinhart pass is a perfect example of what I mean, he can get to "okay, I need to be a passing option" and not "passing option, I can shoot or make a move, I'll have x amount of time, if the shot misses it will miss this way so I need to shoot and be prepared to move in that direction". Tage can think 1 maybe 2 steps ahead at most but he isn't mentally mapping the ice and processing 5 outcomes at once. He never will and that's a big issue with his game. Cozens sometimes will only process to step 2 but with Cozens he is more direct so it is efficient. 

[PromoTheRobot]

10 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

So far 100% Dahlin and it did seem the obvious answer to me. 

Cozens was actually the guy who took a step backwards under Granato. The view is optimistically that he wore down as an overplayed rookie not used to it, but it is also possible he preferred the tighter style of Kreuger hockey. We shall see this season, 

I chose Mitts because he was considered an outright bust before Donnie cane along. We weren't calling Dahlin a bust...yet 

[dudacek]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think that the ability to process multiple events at once and correctly understand where that goes is really something that either has to be developed really young or else you are never going to be very good at it. Tage does not see or understand how things are going to unfold. The Reinhart pass is a perfect example of what I mean, he can get to "okay, I need to be a passing option" and not "passing option, I can shoot or make a move, I'll have x amount of time, if the shot misses it will miss this way so I need to shoot and be prepared to move in that direction". Tage can think 1 maybe 2 steps ahead at most but he isn't mentally mapping the ice and processing 5 outcomes at once. He never will and that's a big issue with his game. Cozens sometimes will only process to step 2 but with Cozens he is more direct so it is efficient. 

Totally on the same page with this and it’s why Tage will never be a Reinhart-level player.

The question is can he leverage the things he does do well to make him an effective middle-sixer?

Donnie had a great segment where he talked about players having to learn to play a different game when they go up a level because what worked on a lower level doesn’t work for them at the next. He said his priority is getting players to focus on what they can do that still works at this level and rebuilding their games around it.

With Tage, it’s about limiting the open ice dangles and Reggie Leach slap shots and focusing on using his length to protect pucks and get to the net on offence and pick pockets and block lanes on defence. In other words, simplify, stop trying to be the driver, let the Reinharts create for him and benefit. Because he has the skill set to benefit.

I think he can succeed if he makes the transition.

Edited July 19, 2021 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Totally on the same page with this and it’s why Tage will never be a Reinhart-level player.

The question is can he leverage the things he does do well to make him an effective middle-sixer?

Donnie had a great segment where he talked about players having to learn to play a different game when they go up a level because what worked on a lower level doesn’t work for them at the next. He said his priority is getting players to focus on what they can do that still works at this level and rebuilding their games around it.

With Tage, it’s about limiting the open ice dangles and Reggie Leach slap shots and focusing on using his length to protect pucks and get to the net on offence and pick pockets and block lanes on defence. In other words, simplify, stop trying to be the driver, let the Reinharts create for him and benefit. Because he has the skill set to benefit.

I think he can succeed if he makes the transition.

He can succeed if he makes the transition, I just don't think he will consistently be able to make that transition. He's going to end up a tweener that keeps getting chances because he's tall.