Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[Rasmus_]

9 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The deal could be a mix of rostered players and futures. 
 

Krebs, Elvenes,  Tuch, Theodore, MAF (He played His Best Hockey Under Mike Bales) or the Sabres could retain salary and flip MAF to Pittsburgh to increase the return. Picks are a must as well

 

I don't understand Vegas as a trade partner.  Meh.  

[pi2000]

The NMC doesn't scare me because the team's currently in the mix (NYR, ANA, LAK) would 100% be on his allow list.... so if it means he takes next season to prove himself healthy and put up numbers, then it's worth waiting.    I just don't believe you should sell low this summer just because you're scared of the NMC kicking in.... if the teams interested were Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa, then yeah move him now.

Edited June 24, 2021 by pi2000

[JohnC]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Jack is going to be sold to the highest bidder this summer so Adams can move ahead with his plan.

The market will decide his value. You and I don’t get to decide fair value.

Respectfully, we are riding different horses on this issue. The horse you are saddling up is not the one I'm choosing to saddle up with. 

[Rasmus_]

1 minute ago, pi2000 said:

The NMC doesn't scare me because the team's currently in the mix currently (NYR, ANA, LAK) would 100% be on his allow list.... so if it means he takes next season to prove himself healthy and put up numbers, then it's worth waiting.    I just don't believe you should sell low this summer just because you're scared of the NMC kicking in.... if the teams interested were Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa, then yeah move him now.

Eichel's NMC doesn't kick in in until 2022-23. He can be moved anywhere this offseason.

[Curt]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I mean I’m glad you are already accustomed to it. I haven’t seen a game without him being Sabres property yet so I’ll let you know when I’m not disappointed anymore. It’s not raw emotion. You can accept something and it still be disappointing.

It hasn’t even happened yet and some are accustomed to it. That you find it so tedious others are still actively disappointed perhaps speaks to how unusually “past it” your position is - IIRC you’ve been a proponent on this board for a long time of an Eichel deal being inevitable 

Yeah, pretty much.

I’m not blaming anyone for being disappointed, but post after post saying how disappointing or stupid it is, honestly is tedious.

I’m also not saying that anyone shouldn’t discuss any possible scenario that they want, but for me, discussing things that are never going to happen also isn’t very interesting.

Eichel is going to be traded for a collection of (mostly young) assets.  I’m not happy about it, but I am expecting it, and I think there are scenarios where it works out.

[pi2000]

1 minute ago, TheCerebral1 said:

Eichel's NMC doesn't kick in in until 2022-23. He can be moved anywhere this offseason.

Right.   My point is don't sell low this summer (injury concerns, coming off a lackluster season) just because the NMC is looming next offseason. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by pi2000

[Rasmus_]

Just now, pi2000 said:

Right.   My point is don't sell low this summer just because the NMC is looming next offseason. 

So we deal with a toxic situation, that affects the rest of the youth coming up.  This is going to be a young team.  Jack, get the ***** out of Buffalo.  I understand and I get the sentiment that it's stale here.  But, maximize the best return you can, that isn't Ryan ***** O'Reilly type value.  Thanks Botts, and move on.  I love the talent, but his attitude is crap.  Anyone who wants to trade for Laine, get out of here too.  

[Thorny]

13 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said:

I just don't understand, unless you're getting Krebs, Glass, Tuch and Theodore, what else do they have.  They are stacked to the cap, their picks are late, and their young assets aren't that great.  Cormier, is okay and I like Dorofeyev, but I still don't see the Russian factor being suddenly open minded here. 

Krebs would be a must. Honestly, his elite prospects page looks really good in terms of him being an “A” prospect. Stats and the write ups 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/322178/peyton-krebs

[In The Buff]

2 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Right.   My point is don't sell low this summer (injury concerns, coming off a lackluster season) just because the NMC is looming next offseason. 

That makes sense... but it also works both ways. Jack could play next season here & suffer another injury or have a poor year by his standards, and his value would tank even more.

[Rasmus_]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Krebs would be a must. Honestly, his elite prospects page looks really good in terms of him being an “A” prospect. Stats and the write ups 

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/322178/peyton-krebs

Krebs, and Tuch are easy assets to love and get behind.  I'm just missing the rest of the deal, 2 firsts, 2 2nds, and Cormier?  Any deal from Los Angeles and potentially even Anaheim has the potentiality to be better.  Riley Smith is coming off of a dreadful year, and he's hitting 30.  Who is passing him the puck. 

 

Even if you settle for Turcotte, 8th overall, Fagemo/Grans/Bjornfot/Parikh/Mikey Anderson/Scott Walker, Jarret Anderson Dolan/Simontaival and so on, there's so much more appeal.  In any of that if you don't get Byfield.

Edited June 24, 2021 by TheCerebral1

[Doohickie]

35 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Those holding out hope that he remains a Sabres are going to be disappointed.

The path has been determined. The decision has been made. The return will disappoint.

Get it over with, figure out what comes next.

Stay or go, I'll get over it.  But I don't think it's a given that he gets traded this offseason.  The reason is that if the trade turns into anything like the ROR deal, KA won't pull the trigger.  If he gets traded the only question in my my mind is do the Sabres get better this year or next.... and that might not even be directly related to the trade.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, TheCerebral1 said:

Krebs, and Tuch are easy assets to love and get behind.  I'm just missing the rest of the deal, 2 firsts, 2 2nds, and Cormier?  Any deal from Los Angeles and potentially even Anaheim has the potentiality to be better.  Riley Smith is coming off of a dreadful year, and he's hitting 30.  Who is passing him the puck. 

Depends on Zegras I guess. If he’s not on the table, and Byfield neither, Krebs could easily be the best young asset on the table, up to and including 3 overall. Krebs is ready to go now 

Krebs Tuch / Beniers Comtois 

[Rasmus_]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Depends on Zegras I guess. If he’s not on the table, and Byfield neither, Krebs could easily be the best young asset on the table, up to and including 3 overall. Krebs is ready to go now 

Even if you settle for Turcotte, 8th overall, and a mix of the following: Fagemo/Grans/Bjornfot/Parikh/Mikey Anderson/Scott Walker/Jarret Anderson Dolan/Simontaival and so on, there's so much more appeal.  In any of that if you don't get Byfield.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, TheCerebral1 said:

Even if you settle for Turcotte, 8th overall, and a mix of the following: Fagemo/Grans/Bjornfot/Parikh/Mikey Anderson/Scott Walker/Jarret Anderson Dolan/Simontaival and so on, there's so much more appeal.  In any of that if you don't get Byfield.

Id rather have Krebs and Tuch than 8 and Turcotte by quite a bit. The rest is totally interchangeable between the teams imo 

Those are the two big pieces. The rest is easy to make work it was a reasonable prospect and medium salary player

[pi2000]

3 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said:

So we deal with a toxic situation, that affects the rest of the youth coming up.  This is going to be a young team.  Jack, get the ***** out of Buffalo.  I understand and I get the sentiment that it's stale here.  But, maximize the best return you can, that isn't Ryan ***** O'Reilly type value.  Thanks Botts, and move on.  I love the talent, but his attitude is crap.  Anyone who wants to trade for Laine, get out of here too.  

Jack is only 24, sure he's acting like a little bitch but maybe he comes to the realization he needs to suck it up and move forward.    He's unhappy at the moment but I don't see him grenading his career just out of spite.    

 

2 minutes ago, In The Buff said:

That makes sense... but it also works both ways. Jack could play next season here & suffer another injury or have a poor year by his standards, and his value would tank even more.

I don't believe his value could tank any more than it is currently.... chances are his neck heals (+90% of those types of injuries heal on their own) and he rebounds after a normal offseason of training and a full training camp.

 

[Thorny]

Krebs is up there for me as a target honestly. I buy that the injury made him fall in the draft and I value that’s he ready to go with Cozens, Casey et al right now 

I’d take Krebs/Tuch before Beniers/Comtois 

Edited June 24, 2021 by Thorny

[Doohickie]

9 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said:

So we deal with a toxic situation

We don't know that.  If he's still injured then the other teams would know it and we'd get poor compensation.  If his injury is much better by the start of the season, the return will not only be better but then we can choose to trade him during the season or if he really is better he may come to realize the conservative approach was correct and appreciate management's position (and not be toxic).

[Rasmus_]

Just now, pi2000 said:

Jack is only 24, sure he's acting like a little bitch but maybe he comes to the realization he needs to suck it up and move forward.    He's unhappy at the moment but I don't see him grenading his career just out of spite.    

 

I don't believe his value could tank any more than it is currently.... chances are his neck heals (+90% of those types of injuries heal on their own) and he rebounds after a normal offseason of training and a full training camp.

 

At the same time, it's time to move on.  We're going no where at the helm.  Move him.  This situation becomes uglier as we go on.  If Eichel is still here, and say Reinhart and Ristolainen are traded, do you see Jack remaining quiet?

[Marvin]

I always think about these kinds of decisions from the other point of view.  So those who think Eichel will get an super prospect, convince me.  IMHO, no GM should offer a top prospect unless he has a cast-iron guarantee that Eichel will 100% recover and return to form AND his owner/franchise is not medically liable for Eichel's life if he is permanently disabled.  I think the "6 pieces" thing will include a couple of conditional picks based on how many games Eichel plays over the next few years.

Now, for those of you arguing that you can just keep him indefinitely if you are only getting offers I would make, exactly how does that makes the Sabres better?  He can't play with that level of pain for long.  He's a $10M cap hit which prevents at least 2 maybe 3 players from helping the depth and quality of play.  His press conference turned outside players against the Sabres, probably split the locker room, and may be pitting management and ownership against the NHLPA.  I do not see the Sabres caving in on the surgery -- especially since that makes them liable if he gets permanently disabled afterward.

IMHO, @pi2000 and @Brawndo are correct.  If I am the other GM, the most you are getting out of me is my first, a good but not great prospect, my old #2 centre who would now be an overpriced #3 centre, a project (raw, but talented), maybe a cap dump, and maybe a couple of conditional picks.  Hey, look -- 7 pieces.  I see no reason to believe we will get a better offer.  And you need to move him soon.

[Doohickie]

4 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Jack is only 24, sure he's acting like a little bitch but maybe he comes to the realization he needs to suck it up and move forward.    He's unhappy at the moment but I don't see him grenading his career just out of spite.    

 

I don't believe his value could tank any more than it is currently.... chances are his neck heals (+90% of those types of injuries heal on their own) and he rebounds after a normal offseason of training and a full training camp.

Should I be alarmed?  I agree with everything pi is saying in this thread.

[In The Buff]

10 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I don't believe his value could tank any more than it is currently.... chances are his neck heals (+90% of those types of injuries heal on their own) and he rebounds after a normal offseason of training and a full training camp.

I wouldnt think so either but i wouldnt have expected how this past season played out either. Jacks not getting the surgery he wants, does that mean the injury wont fully heal? His souring attitude &/or injury concerns aside, but IF he plays for us  next year & it doesnt go well, it would absolutely hurt his value more than right now.

If 1 season has hurt his value, going 2 seasons removed from being a "generational talent" would do nothing but hurt his value more.

Tbh idk how anyone could disagree with that bolded. It'd be 2 seasons lol

Edited June 24, 2021 by In The Buff
added the word: 'more' to the bolded

[Huckleberry]

I think there is a strong market out there for him.   I also think that 6 bodies coming back in a trade is a bit much but KA is right to shoot for the moon here.

I will be happy with 4pcs coming back  a 1 C prospect + 2021 or 2022 1st rounder + middle six winger + another top prospect.

[pi2000]

Just now, TheCerebral1 said:

At the same time, it's time to move on.  We're going no where at the helm.  Move him.  This situation becomes uglier as we go on.  If Eichel is still here, and say Reinhart and Ristolainen are traded, do you see Jack remaining quiet?

They went through a similar scenario with Ryan O'Reilly.... they sold low because he wanted out (?) and they felt pressured to move him.     

I disagree with the bolded.   How is it getting uglier?   KA and Eichel have been dead silent in the media.     That's a good sign IMO.     If it was getting worse Eichel's camp would come right out and tell the media that he has no plans to return to Buffalo.    That hasn't happened yet.... maybe it does if he's not moved by draft day?  Time will tell. 

If Reinhart and Risto are traded, who cares what Eichel thinks?   He can't trade himself and he's under contract for 5 more years.    Nobody forced him to sign a 10 year deal, and he's getting paid handsomely.      You think he'd be the first star player to disagree  with a teammate getting traded?   They get over it, they're professionals, it's part of the business.

[Rasmus_]

7 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

I always think about these kinds of decisions from the other point of view.  So those who think Eichel will get an super prospect, convince me.  IMHO, no GM should offer a top prospect unless he has a cast-iron guarantee that Eichel will 100% recover and return to form AND his owner/franchise is not medically liable for Eichel's life if he is permanently disabled.  I think the "6 pieces" thing will include a couple of conditional picks based on how many games Eichel plays over the next few years.

Now, for those of you arguing that you can just keep him indefinitely if you are only getting offers I would make, exactly how does that makes the Sabres better?  He can't play with that level of pain for long.  He's a $10M cap hit which prevents at least 2 maybe 3 players from helping the depth and quality of play.  His press conference turned outside players against the Sabres, probably split the locker room, and may be pitting management and ownership against the NHLPA.  I do not see the Sabres caving in on the surgery -- especially since that makes them liable if he gets permanently disabled afterward.

IMHO, @pi2000 and @Brawndo are correct.  If I am the other GM, the most you are getting out of me is my first, a good but not great prospect, my old #2 centre who would now be an overpriced #3 centre, a project (raw, but talented), maybe a cap dump, and maybe a couple of conditional picks.  Hey, look -- 7 pieces.  I see no reason to believe we will get a better offer.  And you need to move him soon.

Because trading and signing the "right veterans" hasn't worked.  The rebuild that started in 2011, was sabotaged and never properly started.  Do I think we have the right management group to facilitate something that can progress the right way, no.  This team is so top heavy, it's not even funny.  Every veteran on this roster, outside of Eichel, Reinhart, Olofsson (all 25 or younger) are the top end.  The rest is under 22, or offers no suggestion that they're going to turn the corner.  Tage Thompson is at best a third line scrappy, inconsistent scorer, who is injury prone.  Or, is someone we're trying to move out (Skinner, Okposo, Eakin, etc).  The problem starts, and ends with Terry and Kim Pegula, and until the scourge of their fingers aren't in every decision, then this team goes nowhere.  I'm pessimistic sure, but I'm also realistic, I don't see 5 moves that make this team better, I see 10-12 that are needed.   No scouting department, no competent hockey operations, owners with their hands in operations who have NO CLUE on how to build a team.  It's toxic, and gutting this, and redoing things, is the way to go.  Buffalo isn't an attractive market to free agents, we're a laughing stock to other franchises.   I guess, I should just stop posting.  Sorry, in advance. 

Edited June 24, 2021 by TheCerebral1

[kas23]

18 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

The NMC doesn't scare me because the team's currently in the mix (NYR, ANA, LAK) would 100% be on his allow list.... so if it means he takes next season to prove himself healthy and put up numbers, then it's worth waiting.    I just don't believe you should sell low this summer just because you're scared of the NMC kicking in.... if the teams interested were Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa, then yeah move him now.

This is just asking to be placed into another Hall situation. What will likely happen is that Jack will give the team a small list of acceptable teams. We’ll have no clue which teams may be included and it’s likely Jack doesn’t know right now either. They will likely be teams that don’t really need Jack (they’ll be perennial playoff teams) and won’t be desperate. They’ll be smart about it (as the Boston’s and Tampa Bay’s are) and will lowball us knowing we are handcuffed. Supposedly, there were multiple teams Hall would’ve accepted. We still got peanuts.