Jump to content

William Borgen, demoted to how good can he be?


Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

No -- Seattle won't touch our forwards unless they just sign Hall as a UFA. The alternate is Seattle signs Ullmark as UFA.

If Seattle elects to use the pick: Borgen/Joker is the dilemma on our side. Borgen can't prove anything if he doesn't play and just rides taxi squad behind Irwin all year. And yes, Joker has been brutal this season, but he's also a good breakout pass, is still super-young, and has potential. We've seen him look really solid with Scandella and Chicago/Quennville saw him look really solid for half a season, too, until Quenneville got fired. He's a verified NHLer and only 21 years old.

Signing a UFA who was previously on Buffalo is not a substitute for using an expansion draft pick.  They could sign Hall, and Ullmark, and draft Borgen.

Am I wrong?

Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

Goaltending is certainly not a strength of this team, but I would say it's not our biggest problem either.   Even Hasek in his prime may not have been able to steal a win in either game against the Isles.  Lack of even strength scoring is what is killing us and there can be many reasons why it ain't happening.  I do say the common denominator is coaching.

That may be.  My point regarding Adams atleast is that he appeared to have improved scoring on paper by adding Hall and Stall.  I don't think Adams could foresee Jack sucking ass to start the season, continuing to get zero out of Skinner and Hall looking invisible at times.  Goaltending was and still is an obvious that will have to be addressed at some point.  Again, this team is not good enough to overcome poor goaltending and it's a fireable offence that this was not addressed in the offseason.

 

Wasting another season is completely unacceptable and how the Sabres can continue to hire the wrong coaching and management is absolutely mind boggling.  They can choose the best of the best and have the resources to head hunt the best of the best.  How the ***** do they continue to screw this up?  For a decade plus?  You really start to question Kim and Terry and wonder how they became billionaires in one area of life and yet be so clueless in hiring competent people to run a sports franchise.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Curt said:

Signing a UFA who was previously on Buffalo is not a substitute for using an expansion draft pick.  They could sign Hall, and Ullmark, and draft Borgen.

Am I wrong?

Seattle has an exclusive window to sign any UFA just before they select their expansion folks. If they elect to sign that player, that's their pick from the team.

Here's a good explanation with a timeline (coincidently, Taylor Hall is used as the example):

https://soundofhockey.com/2020/11/12/breaking-down-the-seattle-kraken-nhl-expansion-draft-rules/

But after the draft, Seattle can sign any UFAs who are still out there when true league-wide free agency begins after the draft. The problem there is competition drives up the costs.

And you're right -- Seattle can do all of those things. It's why Vegas didn't sign any UFAs as their picks that I can recall. EDIT:  They did... per the article linked above. And it's complicated**.

It's not as good a use of the system. It's better to pick Borgen for free, then also go get Ullmark a couple weeks later.

 

** the complicated addition ---

VGK did pick UFA Chris Thorburn from Winnipeg, but it was part of a trade deal to stay away from other available players. Thorburn didn't sign with VGK and instead played 50 games that season with STL.

Then -- from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_NHL_Expansion_Draft  "The Winnipeg Jets traded their first-round pick (13th overall) in the 2017 NHL Entry Draft and a third-round pick in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft in exchange for Vegas selecting Chris Thorburn and Columbus' first-round pick (24th overall) in the 2017 NHL Entry Draft (previously acquired by Vegas)."

Edited by DarthEbriate
  • Thanks (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Derrico said:

That may be.  My point regarding Adams atleast is that he appeared to have improved scoring on paper by adding Hall and Stall.  I don't think Adams could foresee Jack sucking ass to start the season, continuing to get zero out of Skinner and Hall looking invisible at times.  Goaltending was and still is an obvious that will have to be addressed at some point.  Again, this team is not good enough to overcome poor goaltending and it's a fireable offence that this was not addressed in the offseason.

 

Wasting another season is completely unacceptable and how the Sabres can continue to hire the wrong coaching and management is absolutely mind boggling.  They can choose the best of the best and have the resources to head hunt the best of the best.  How the ***** do they continue to screw this up?  For a decade plus?  You really start to question Kim and Terry and wonder how they became billionaires in one area of life and yet be so clueless in hiring competent people to run a sports franchise.  

Perhaps, but IMHO the Pegula's are already on a slippery slope where credible GM's and Executives may decline an offer to come here.  Maybe they are getting bad advice, but hiring 3 rookie GM's in a row (and 2 HC's with little or no HC experience) is not a recipe for success.  Having the resources doesn't mean that good candidates will look past the Pegula's record of a revolving door.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Would u trade Seattle Ullmark and a protected 1st in exchange for them taking Skinner in the draft?   

No I would rather bank on a compliance buyout next CBA. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

It was extended through the 2025-26 season this past summer 

Potentially stupid question—so no chance at compliance buyouts coming prior to 2026?

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Yeah both the NHL Owners and NHLPA would need to agree to it 

I know you are much more well versed in this than I am so another question—what do you think the owners would need to put on the table to get one?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta change the thread title because... Borgen is stayin and Risto is probably out for at least a while. 

 

Will Borgen, he's certainly worth giving playing time too. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • LGR4GM changed the title to William Borgen, demoted to how good can he be?
14 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Would u trade Seattle Ullmark and a protected 1st in exchange for them taking Skinner in the draft?   

Can we even trade skinner?  Botts gave him a full NMC.  I don't think he wants to be here though, so he'd probably be open to a change of scenery and Seattle would probably be the only team with a hint of interest based on what comes with him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, #freejame said:

I know you are much more well versed in this than I am so another question—what do you think the owners would need to put on the table to get one?

Do the owners really even want one though?  It equates to more money spent on their end.  I find it hard to believe that the demand for one is high coming from the owners right now.

Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Curt said:

Do the owners really even want one though?  It equates to more money spent on their end.  I find it hard to believe that the demand for one is high coming from the owners right now.

I guess that depends on how much sway they give their management teams

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, #freejame said:

I guess that depends on how much sway they give their management teams

You mean the GM’s and team presidents?

I would think that decisions to buy out players would always be heavily scrutinized by ownership before being approved.  I would say it’s probably, generally an GM proposal and an ownership decision.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Would u trade Seattle Ullmark and a protected 1st in exchange for them taking Skinner in the draft?   

Would Seattle take Ullmark for that? They'll have several starting goalies to choose from who have a better proven track record, or a kid they're more interested in. Maybe UPL and the 1st for Skinner. Ullmark is good -- and he'd be good enough to steal games for us if we we scoring any goals. Skinner's contract is horrible.

17 hours ago, #freejame said:

No I would rather bank on a compliance buyout next CBA. 

The only other possibility is an emergency CBA in the 2022 summer offseason (if next season also has little/no fans and it's another giant revenue loss where the NHL borrows more cash). But otherwise, this not something I'd rely on. New TV/streaming contracts, Seattle's cash, etc. will bounce the cap back to 82M and beyond by 2024.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Gotta change the thread title because... Borgen is stayin and Risto is probably out for at least a while. 

 

Will Borgen, he's certainly worth giving playing time too. 

He looks good to me as well.  Some development time in Rochester worked in this case.  He seems steady and ready for a regular job.  Hope he can stick around.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/18/2021 at 3:39 PM, pi2000 said:

Would u trade Seattle Ullmark and a protected 1st in exchange for them taking Skinner in the draft?   

They cannot trade Linus, as he is an unrestricted FA in June.   They will not have to protect him at all.  I think its assumed that Seattle would be taking a goalie from Dallas (Khudobin) or Vancouver (Holtby).  Would you rather? 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...