Sabre fan Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Just heard that Tampa Bay has sent D Braydon Coburn, Cedric Paquette and a 2022 second-round pick from the Tampa Bay Lightning, in exchange for Marian Gaborik and Anders Nilsson. Of oucrse both Bagorik and Nilsson are and will remain on long-term injured reserve meaning they do not count against the cap. Ottawa get two half-descent players that will help their lineup but really it is just a way Tampa Bay to shed salary. I think this kind of trade should not be allowed as it is not a hockey trade. Tampa clearly gains nothing but cap space which does not equal a hockey trade where both sides benefit on the ice where it should matter. Should this kind of trade be allowed??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Completely in favour. Cap space is a resource, just like draft picks and actual players. Also, if this kind of trade is not allowed, how does a team in a situation like Tampa address its situation? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Tampa also has to pay the real $ for those contracts they picked up. Admittedly it does give big $ franchises an advantage but such is life. What I don’t like is that Tampa can get Kucherov back for the playoffs regardless of the cap. IMHO if your out for the season you are out for the entire season including playoffs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) I do not think that clear cap circumvention (is that the right word?) should be allowed. If the league had any gumption at all they would nullify this trade. Tampa made their bed let them deal with it in a proper way. Edited December 28, 2020 by New Scotland (NS) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Well, Ottawa just got a little better on the ice with the trade. I really like both those players. Not great, but good players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 Id argue both sides benefit on the ice from these deals. There's finite cap so it's another resource to exploit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) Player salary is a factor in every trade. As soon as there is a salary cap, a bunch of rules come to manage that cap. As soon as you create a cap, then cap space becomes an asset. It’s part of the deal. And TB did benefit on the ice from this trade. It allows them to ice all their other (better) players. Edited December 28, 2020 by Curt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Curt said: Player salary is a factor in every trade. As soon as there is a salary cap, a bunch of rules come to manage that cap. As soon as you create a cap, then cap space becomes an asset. It’s part of the deal. And TB did benefit on the ice from this trade. It allows them to ice all their other (better) players. No offense to the OP, but I believe the NO vote is not worded the way I would have. It is clear that the intention by Tampa is not to ice a better team. They are finding a way around their cap problems without making a legit trade. They are trading for two players that will not be playing. It's a joke and the NHL is a joke league. I did vote No, but not because both teams are not icing a better team. I voted No because it is clear what they are doing and I am against it. Edited December 28, 2020 by New Scotland (NS) I still don't type very goodly ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Sabre fan said: Just heard that Tampa Bay has sent D Braydon Coburn, Cedric Paquette and a 2022 second-round pick from the Tampa Bay Lightning, in exchange for Marian Gaborik and Anders Nilsson. Of oucrse both Bagorik and Nilsson are and will remain on long-term injured reserve meaning they do not count against the cap. Ottawa get two half-descent players that will help their lineup but really it is just a way Tampa Bay to shed salary. I think this kind of trade should not be allowed as it is not a hockey trade. Tampa clearly gains nothing but cap space which does not equal a hockey trade where both sides benefit on the ice where it should matter. Should this kind of trade be allowed??? Instead of resenting creative thinking it should be lauded. Working the cap in order to shape your roster in its essence is a hockey deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 minute ago, JohnC said: Instead of resenting creative thinking it should be lauded. Working the cap in order to shape your roster in its essence is a hockey deal. Creative thinking ... cheating ... tomato ... tomato Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 I think this is a pretty good discussion. My knee-jerk reaction was to initially agree that there’s nothing wrong with it. But after you think about it, this really does violate the spirit of the cap. These are essentially get out of jail free cards that the rich can hand out. You’re not really experiencing the punishment for poor cap management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said: Creative thinking ... cheating ... tomato ... tomato How is it cheating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 to me the issue is trading for players that you know are not going to play. I think the league needs to look at the rules for trading players on ltir and the ltir circumvention of the salary cap with concern to the playoffs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: How is it cheating? I don't think it is cheating. However I do think LTIR rules need to be changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said: No offense to the OP, but I believe the NO vote is not worded the way I would have. It is clear that the intention by Tampa is not to ice a better team. They are finding a way around their cap problems without making a legit trade. They are trading for two players that will not be playing. It's a joke and the NHL is a joke league. I did vote No, but not because both teams are not icing a better team. I voted No because it is clear what they are doing and I am against it. In a vacuum, I don’t love it either. It’s lame. But with a cap league, these things take place. It happens in all cap leagues, NFL and NBA included. It’s well within the current rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said: Creative thinking ... cheating ... tomato ... tomato They worked within the rules. Did they take advantage of the rules? Of course they did. What did you want them to do? Not take advantage of the rules to benefit the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, SDS said: I think this is a pretty good discussion. My knee-jerk reaction was to initially agree that there’s nothing wrong with it. But after you think about it, this really does violate the spirit of the cap. These are essentially get out of jail free cards that the rich can hand out. You’re not really experiencing the punishment for poor cap management. 5 minutes ago, drnkirishone said: I don't think it is cheating. However I do think LTIR rules need to be changed. I'm with you guys & I think the simple solution is to prohibit trading players who are on LTIR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, SDS said: I think this is a pretty good discussion. My knee-jerk reaction was to initially agree that there’s nothing wrong with it. But after you think about it, this really does violate the spirit of the cap. These are essentially get out of jail free cards that the rich can hand out. You’re not really experiencing the punishment for poor cap management. TB did give up two useful players and a 2nd round pick (in addition to taking on a bunch of real world $$$) just to clear $3M in cap space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, drnkirishone said: to me the issue is trading for players that you know are not going to play. I think the league needs to look at the rules for trading players on ltir and the ltir circumvention of the salary cap with concern to the playoffs When you try to make a rule to deal with the exception you end up with an atrocious rule. A smart organization worked within the rules to benefit their team. What they did has been done before. They should be saluted for their creative thinking and ability to maneuver within the rules to benefit their team. The argument that it went against the spirit of the rule makes little sense because different people interpret the spirit issue differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Eleven said: I'm with you guys & I think the simple solution is to prohibit trading players who are on LTIR. Yeah, possible solution. Can’t think of a reason that it couldn’t work. Except that the owners would never vote in favor of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, SDS said: I think this is a pretty good discussion. My knee-jerk reaction was to initially agree that there’s nothing wrong with it. But after you think about it, this really does violate the spirit of the cap. These are essentially get out of jail free cards that the rich can hand out. You’re not really experiencing the punishment for poor cap management. Except Tampa has not managed the cap poorly at all. Because they have managed it exceedingly well, they have more good players than they can afford. If they can’t trade players for cap space, what happens to RFA players like Cirelli and Sergachev? Do they just sit out? 7 minutes ago, drnkirishone said: to me the issue is trading for players that you know are not going to play. I think the league needs to look at the rules for trading players on ltir and the ltir circumvention of the salary cap with concern to the playoffs Unless the OP is strictly talking about this. This is a better conversation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 It’s not like other teams haven’t done the same thing and I don’t remember any outcry as Hossa, Datsyuk, among others were traded for their cap hit and IR status. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: It’s not like other teams haven’t done the same thing and I don’t remember any outcry as Hossa, Datsyuk, among others were traded for their cap hit and IR status. I disagree. There has been plenty of outcry about “retiring” players to LTIR. The fact that Canucks are eating Luongo’s cap hit when he retired from Florida, while Philly hid Chris Pronger’s similar backdiving contract on LTIR while he was working in the NHL office was a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 10 minutes ago, dudacek said: I disagree. There has been plenty of outcry about “retiring” players to LTIR. The fact that Canucks are eating Luongo’s cap hit when he retired from Florida, while Philly hid Chris Pronger’s similar backdiving contract on LTIR while he was working in the NHL office was a joke. Is Wade Redden on this list too? Or was that some other form of shenanigans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted December 28, 2020 Report Share Posted December 28, 2020 This has been happening in the NBA for years. It’s a tool for smart people and allows internal cap teams an opportunity as well. One thing I can guarantee, it is almost impossible to create a CBA that somebody isn’t going to be able to manipulate to their advantage. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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