Rick Dudley Unlikely to Join Sabres

[LGR4GM]

20 hours ago, Brawndo said:

In Lance Lysowski's Article Dudley mentioned Waddell would give him the name of a player his was interested in acquiring.  His team would watch every shift and run the analytics behind the player and then he gives recommendations to Waddell. A similar role here as Director of Player Personnel would work.

Also Dudley is not a fan of flying per the same article so a GM Position is not in the cards most likely.

I just imagine what that would have looked like for Vesey... 

B - hey we are going to trade for vesey

D - let me look at the tape and run the numbers

... 10 seconds later

D - no

B - but he's another left wing and

D - no

B - just hear me out he could

D - Which letter in the word no is confusing? 

B - What?

D - No. 

[Curt]

9 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Having his experienced voice in the room when considering trades and draft prospects would be an asset . Even if he isn't the decision maker his point of view would be invaluable in an offseason most of us expect/hope trades will be made to strengthen the roster. 

Oh yes.  I wasn’t saying it made no sense to bring Dudley in, I was just referring to the title.

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

Oh yes.  I wasn’t saying it made no sense to bring Dudley in, I was just referring to the title.

I didn't take it as you suggesting that we shouldn't bring in Dudley. It would be interesting to know what Dudley's plans are now that he is no longer associated with Carolina? I'm wondering if he wants to get back into the grind or be more of of a consultant who works at a more leisurely schedule. He certainly would be a good resource for a young GM and a less than fully staffed scouting department to rely on.  

[spndnchz]

He’s 71 years old.  Maybe he just wants to retire ..

[nfreeman]

@john wawrow -- I'm sure everyone here would appreciate hearing anything you might know about whether the Sabres are interested in Dudley!

Thanks.

[DeleteThisAccount]

16 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

@john wawrow -- I'm sure everyone here would appreciate hearing anything you might know about whether the Sabres are interested in Dudley!

Thanks.

He's interested. What interest the Sabres have, when I checked in last week, is uncertain.

 

jw

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Why would the Sabres not be interested in bringing in a guy like Dudley? 

It is mind boggling.

[Tondas]

17 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Why would the Sabres not be interested in bringing in a guy like Dudley? 

It is mind boggling.

Why bring in an experienced hockey front office professional with 40 years of experience when you can hire a cheaper GM with no front office experience?  Pegulas, SMH.  Ego, ego, ego.

We need more of this:

Edited July 6, 2020 by Tondas

[dudacek]

I’m certainly in favour of Dudley, who checks The missing boxes in the current braintrust and seems to be philosophical fit to the type of player evaluation system Adams is preaching.

The open question is whether this admitted maverick personality is a fit in the team/consensus model Adams and the Pegulas want to operate under.

[nfreeman]

I suppose it's also possible that TP isn't interested in adding to payroll until we get closer to the draft, free agency, etc.

If the Sabres aren't interested in Dudley, I hope that's not the reason.

[Tondas]

27 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I suppose it's also possible that TP isn't interested in adding to payroll until we get closer to the draft, free agency, etc.

If the Sabres aren't interested in Dudley, I hope that's not the reason.

Hey, it's Terry's team and he can do what he wants.  But the fans were told money wouldn't be a problem.  If hiring Dudley gets the Sabres into the playoffs, he will pay for his salary and much, much more.  It's either a control problem, ego, or embarrassment that they weren't patient after letting JBOT go and taking the time to make a serious GM search that's holding them back from hiring a 40 year experienced hockey front office executive.  The only other reason is incompetence.  Dudley's not "a fit" argument doesn't work.  How have the "fits" worked out over the last 9 years??

Edited July 6, 2020 by Tondas

[Radar]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I’m certainly in favour of Dudley, who checks The missing boxes in the current braintrust and seems to be philosophical fit to the type of player evaluation system Adams is preaching.

The open question is whether this admitted maverick personality is a fit in the team/consensus model Adams and the Pegulas want to operate under.

My guess? No he's not a fit. And that's why we are where we are.

[Radar]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I suppose it's also possible that TP isn't interested in adding to payroll until we get closer to the draft, free agency, etc.

If the Sabres aren't interested in Dudley, I hope that's not the reason.

I'm almost 100% thinking the Pegulas have gone from big hopes to they don't have a clue. They seem to want a brotherhood not a team organization.

[Thorner]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I just imagine what that would have looked like for Vesey... 

B - hey we are going to trade for vesey

D - let me look at the tape and run the numbers

... 10 seconds later

D - no

B - but he's another left wing and

D - no

B - just hear me out he could

D - Which letter in the word no is confusing? 

B - What?

D - No. 

This was one of the those deals that solidified what Botterill was and soured me on the season before it started. Just brutal. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I’m certainly in favour of Dudley, who checks The missing boxes in the current braintrust and seems to be philosophical fit to the type of player evaluation system Adams is preaching.

The open question is whether this admitted maverick personality is a fit in the team/consensus model Adams and the Pegulas want to operate under.

Probably not, unfortunately. 

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I suppose it's also possible that TP isn't interested in adding to payroll until we get closer to the draft, free agency, etc.

If the Sabres aren't interested in Dudley, I hope that's not the reason.

Why? If that's the reason, maybe we'll still get him when those things get closer. Much better than them being against it philosophically. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Thorny

[msw2112]

Given his age, has apparent love of the sport, his apparent love of Buffalo, and his apparent love of the Sabres, I don't think a fancy title or even a huge payday is necessarily what Dudley is looking for.  Just call him a consultant and pay him hourly for his time & contributions.  At $500-$1000 per hour, which is what big-time corporate lawyers, accountants, and consultants make, he could make a few bucks to pad his retirement savings without tying the Sabres to a huge salary commitment and he'd be available to advise, mentor, etc. as needed.  He can live at home in Lewiston and not have to travel other than to Downtown Buffalo on occasion.  If things don't go well, there isn't a fat contract to pay out.  If things do work out well, you could add a bonus to his comp.

If titles were more important than I am suggesting, you could pad the title a little and go with "Senior Consultant" or "Executive Consultant," "Executive Advisor," etc.

[IKnowPhysics]

It's so easy, it's almost as if, if it didn't eventually happen, there would have to be a good reason for it not to have occurred.

I mean, it's such a slam dunk, there's no possible way he doesn't get added to the front office, unless there was a bulletproof reason why it doesn't happen.

I mean, you'd have to be such a god damned moronic idiot that you drool and eat wings with ranch to NOT do it, that if you DIDN'T do it, there was probably a reasonable explanation for not doing it.

I mean, you'd have to know that hiring him would likely bring about the 2nd coming of Jesus, Grand Unification Theory, and a cure for the Rona that also solves homelessness, wherein, if you DIDN'T hire him, you had good confidence that you knew what you were doing.

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I’m certainly in favour of Dudley, who checks The missing boxes in the current braintrust and seems to be philosophical fit to the type of player evaluation system Adams is preaching.

The open question is whether this admitted maverick personality is a fit in the team/consensus model Adams and the Pegulas want to operate under.

When forming a consensus what you want in the room are people who have independent views and are willing to argue on behalf of their positions even if it goes against conventional wisdom. You don't have to accept them but if the person has credibility and a strong rational behind his views you should seriously consider them. What it comes down to is that you are not challenging people so much as you are challenging ideas. If you only have people in the room who are too willing to conform rather than independently think then you are going to have less creativity and more mediocrity. A good leader is a good listener and is willing to hear many views before making a decision. 

[Randall Flagg]

Whether it's Dudley or someone else, I think we'd all just be relieved to have a talent evaluator with credible evidence of NHL results. That isn't to say that the Sabres can't build something good without this, or such that it exists but we don't know about it, but I think an optically pleasant offseason of front-office additions would do wonders for the board's optimism when the pucks are flying again, and certainly wouldn't harm the Sabres' prospects for next year

Edited July 7, 2020 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

57 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When forming a consensus what you want in the room are people who have independent views and are willing to argue on behalf of their positions even if it goes against conventional wisdom. You don't have to accept them but if the person has credibility and a strong rational behind his views you should seriously consider them. What it comes down to is that you are not challenging people so much as you are challenging ideas. If you only have people in the room who are too willing to conform rather than independently think then you are going to have less creativity and more mediocrity. A good leader is a good listener and is willing to hear many views before making a decision. 

I agree with this philosophy, and Adams very clearly preaches it. Does he practice it? Does Dudley?

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

I agree with this philosophy, and Adams very clearly preaches it. Does he practice it? Does Dudley?

My sense is that Adams is more receptive to the "consensus" decision-making approach than Dudley. It seems to me that Dudley is more head-strong and authoritarian in how he functions in an organizational setting. The key to maximizing Dudley's talents and minimizing his liabilities within the Sabre organization is putting him in the right role assuming he is interested in being hired or the organization has a desire to hire him. The major benefit that the organization will have with him as an employee is utilizing his talents in evaluating players both in the pro ranks and amateur ranks. 

I want to make it clear that I don't want to wrongly stereotype Dudley as a person and his management style. This is just my sense and opinion.  

[Sabres Fan in NS]

How could I miss the fantasticness of user name @msw2112 ... awesome!!  Now I know for sure that 2112 will absolutely be the year of the Sabre.  What a great year that will be.

Is the orchestra ready ... it's Overture time!!

 

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, JohnC said:

When forming a consensus what you want in the room are people who have independent views and are willing to argue on behalf of their positions even if it goes against conventional wisdom. You don't have to accept them but if the person has credibility and a strong rational behind his views you should seriously consider them. What it comes down to is that you are not challenging people so much as you are challenging ideas. If you only have people in the room who are too willing to conform rather than independently think then you are going to have less creativity and more mediocrity. A good leader is a good listener and is willing to hear many views before making a decision. 

Yes. All of this. 

[Tondas]

19 hours ago, JohnC said:

My sense is that Adams is more receptive to the "consensus" decision-making approach than Dudley. It seems to me that Dudley is more head-strong and authoritarian in how he functions in an organizational setting. The key to maximizing Dudley's talents and minimizing his liabilities within the Sabre organization is putting him in the right role assuming he is interested in being hired or the organization has a desire to hire him. The major benefit that the organization will have with him as an employee is utilizing his talents in evaluating players both in the pro ranks and amateur ranks. 

I want to make it clear that I don't want to wrongly stereotype Dudley as a person and his management style. This is just my sense and opinion.  

@JohnC.  You work or worked in an executive position, right?  It shows. 

When I was an executive, my tightrope was walking the fine line between consensus building and "doing it my way."  My rationale was, "You hired me based on my past 25 years of successful management experience."  I always listened and tried to build consensus, but when it came down to making the decision, it was my call.  That's why you hired me.  With Adams, he doesn't have 25 years of front office management experience to base his decisions on. 

Dudley has 40 years of front office, hockey operations experience.  This is on-the-job training for Adams.  So, Dudley is intense and wants to do it his way.  FINE.  That's who you hire if your ego is in check.  Did Terry hire an intern to run his gas fracking business?  I don't think so.  But he does now to run his hockey team.

Who would you hire to run your multi-million dollar hockey business?  Dudley or Adams?

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Tondas said:

@JohnC.  You work or worked in an executive position, right?  It shows. 

When I was an executive, my tightrope was walking the fine line between consensus building and "doing it my way."  My rationale was, "You hired me based on my past 25 years of successful management experience."  I always listened and tried to build consensus, but when it came down to making the decision, it was my call.  That's why you hired me.  With Adams, he doesn't have 25 years of front office management experience to base his decisions on. 

Dudley has 40 years of front office, hockey operations experience.  This is on-the-job training for Adams.  So, Dudley is intense and wants to do it his way.  FINE.  That's who you hire if your ego is in check.  Did Terry hire an intern to run his gas fracking business?  I don't think so.  But he does now to run his hockey team.

Who would you hire to run your multi-million dollar hockey business?  Dudley or Adams?

You make excellent points but I have a different perspective on a Dudley hire and usage. Without a doubt he has had a long and distinguished career in the hockey business. Just as there are different stages in life there are also different stages in the work world. One way of looking at it as a vocational lifespan. It is appropriate and smart to assess and then adjust what your role is in a business that you have been involved in one way or the other for nearly three quarters of a century. 

You are right that Dudley has an immensely greater amount of experience than Adams for the GM position. But that doesn't necessarily mean that at this stage of his hockey life he should be the GM of the Sabres and would be better than Adams at this particular time.  Sometimes new blood, energy and perspective can invigorate a stale operation. 

The role that I envision Dudley doing that best serves the organization is utilizing his expertise in scouting both in the pro and amateur ranks. I think it would be a mistake to place Dudley as a sidekick subordinate GM whose influence might benefit the inexperienced new GM. That is a recipe for an office disaster because it is too tempting for the oldster to dominate the youngster and create an atmosphere of conflict and resentment.   

This is a critical offseason for this meandering franchise. My optimistic view is if the organization makes a few judicious personnel decisions it can uplift not only the team but also the exasperated fan base. If it doesn't make the right decisions this franchise will continue to be irrelevant and increase the level of indifference by its fading fan base.