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Eleven

Yerdon's suggestions for forwards for the Sabres

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In The Athletic today, Joe Yerdon sets forth his case for the Sabres to do the following:

1.  Keep Larsson and Vesey.

2.  Let go Girgensons, Frolik, Simmonds, Wilson, and Sobotka.

3.  Pursue FAs Craig Smith, Maroon, and Toffoli.

What do we think?

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40 minutes ago, Eleven said:

In The Athletic today, Joe Yerdon sets forth his case for the Sabres to do the following:

1.  Keep Larsson and Vesey.

2.  Let go Girgensons, Frolik, Simmonds, Wilson, and Sobotka.

3.  Pursue FAs Craig Smith, Maroon, and Toffoli.

What do we think?

I have zero problem with keeping Larsson and Vesey assuming either wants to stay.  Of our UFAs Larsson is the only priority IMHO.  Step 2 is a no-brainer except maybe Girgensons, but even then I'm ok with that as well.  However, I don't think much of any of the guys in step 3 except Toffoli.  Which of these guys would help us down the middle.  Smith and Toffoli haven't played center in years.  Honestly, until we address the spine of the forward group (aka the 2C issue), adding wingers doesn't matter. 

Also with the cap situation up in the air and a possible compliance buyout because of it, things could look very different then that do right now.

For example:  If there is a compliance buyout, do you buyout KO?  Given his injury history this is a no-brainer.  So if you buyout KO, do you then re-sign Simmonds to assume that 4th line checking role.  I would.

FYI:  https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/top-11-purely-hypothetical-nhl-compliance-buyout-candidates/

 

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
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7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I have zero problem with keeping Larsson and Vesey assuming either wants to stay.  Of our UFAs Larsson is the only priority IMHO.  Step 2 is a no-brainer except maybe Girgensons, but even then I'm ok with that as well.  However, I don't think much of any of the guys in step 3 except Toffoli.  Which of these guys would help us down the middle.  Smith and Toffoli haven't played center in years.  Honestly, until we address the spine of the forward group (aka the 2C issue), adding wingers doesn't matter. 

Also with the cap situation up in the air and a possible compliance buyout because of it, things could look very different then that do right now.

For example:  If there is a compliance buyout, do you buyout KO?  Given his injury history this is a no-brainer.  So if you buyout KO, do you then re-sign Simmonds to assume that 4th line checking role.  I would.

FYI:  https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/top-11-purely-hypothetical-nhl-compliance-buyout-candidates/

 

I like a lot of this thinking.  I'd rather keep Girgensons and Larsson together though.  I don't know what Simmonds will cost, but if it's anything near $5M, I don't want to pay that to replace Okposo on the checking line.

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None of the "pursue" crowd gives me wood. I would rather keep Simmonds. 

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13 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I like a lot of this thinking.  I'd rather keep Girgensons and Larsson together though.  I don't know what Simmonds will cost, but if it's anything near $5M, I don't want to pay that to replace Okposo on the checking line.

Honestly, I'm kind of hoping for cap agreement between the NHL and the PA with a buyout.  I'm buying out KO, hopefully signing Tyler Johnson (if TB buys him out) and then re-signing Simmonds and Larsson for the 4th line

VO Jack Reinhart

Skinner Johnson Toffoli

MoJo Cozens/Mitts Kahun

Asplund/Lazar Larsson Simmonds.

I like that forward group.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Honestly, I'm kind of hoping for cap agreement between the NHL and the PA with a buyout.  I'm buying out KO, hopefully signing Tyler Johnson (if TB buys him out) and then re-signing Simmonds and Larsson for the 4th line

VO Jack Reinhart

Skinner Johnson Toffoli

MoJo Cozens/Mitts Kahun

Asplund/Lazar Larsson Simmonds.

I like that forward group.  

 

 

What do you think Simmonds will sign for?

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Just now, GASabresIUFAN said:

1 year at 2 to 2.5

I'd do that.

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3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I'd do that.

In my scenario the biggest hurdle will be signing Toffoli who could easily command 5+ in the open market.  

I think I could get Johnson on a 2 year deal at $4 per season given his reduced role this past season in TB.  

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38 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Honestly, I'm kind of hoping for cap agreement between the NHL and the PA with a buyout.  I'm buying out KO, hopefully signing Tyler Johnson (if TB buys him out) and then re-signing Simmonds and Larsson for the 4th line

VO Jack Reinhart

Skinner Johnson Toffoli

MoJo Cozens/Mitts Kahun

Asplund/Lazar Larsson Simmonds.

I like that forward group. 

 

I would love to buy out KO, and I think it's reasonably likely that the NHL and the PA agree on some kind of compliance buyout arrangement.

I would also love to sign Johnson, but he'll have plenty of suitors.  He's probably not coming here, and definitely not on a cheapo 2-year deal.

I think Larsson will choose to leave as he is probably tired of losing.

I do not want Simmonds back.  He's done like dinner.

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The compliance buyout possibility would really create some big time intrigue for the Sabres.

I completely agree with GASabres with the #2 center comment: And given the strong chance that there will be this compliance buyout for every team, I can see a few options developing where the Sabres can get a vet #2 center for a couple of years (Kyle Turris type) to help Skinner and the other forwards and allow more time for Cozens and even Mittlestadt to develop.

Interesting that Vancouver gave up a LOT for Toffoli and they only might have 2 weeks of games to show for it. Wonder if this will motivate Vancouver in doing whatever it takes to retain him.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ruff Around The Edges

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1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I think Larsson will choose to leave as he is probably tired of losing.

I do not want Simmonds back.  He's done like dinner.

I think that's bad news on Larsson but I also think you're right.

Would you not want Simmonds at the price GA suggested?  $2.5 for a vet presence isn't bad.

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6 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I think that's bad news on Larsson but I also think you're right.

Would you not want Simmonds at the price GA suggested?  $2.5 for a vet presence isn't bad.

Why would you want to write a bad and finished player into any lineup spot for any amount of money? That's what our problem is in the first place.

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27 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I think that's bad news on Larsson but I also think you're right.

Would you not want Simmonds at the price GA suggested?  $2.5 for a vet presence isn't bad.

Regarding Simmonds:  he looked like late-stage Moulson to me.  I don't think he can keep up with the game any longer.

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37 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Why would you want to write a bad and finished player into any lineup spot for any amount of money? That's what our problem is in the first place.

 

17 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Regarding Simmonds:  he looked like late-stage Moulson to me.  I don't think he can keep up with the game any longer.

I guess he didn't look quite as bad to me as he did to you two!

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13 minutes ago, Eleven said:

 

I guess he didn't look quite as bad to me as he did to you two!

I agree.  He was being used in a 3 RW role and that isn't what he is at this point.  However, I think he'd do well in a 4th line energy/physical role at this point in his career.  Signing Simmonds is contingent on KO being bought out.  Otherwise the question is moot.  I don't think Maroon, who Yerdon suggested as a Girgensons replacement is any better at this point then Simmonds.  

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Eleven said:

 

I guess he didn't look quite as bad to me as he did to you two!

Well, you’re not alone in wanting to keep Simmonds, and it certainly wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been wrong here.
 

(It might be the first for @Randall Flagg, though.)

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1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree.  He was being used in a 3 RW role and that isn't what he is at this point.  However, I think he'd do well in a 4th line energy/physical role at this point in his career.  Signing Simmonds is contingent on KO being bought out.  Otherwise the question is moot.  I don't think Maroon, who Yerdon suggested as a Girgensons replacement is any better at this point then Simmonds.  

 

 

Simmonds currently lacks the speed to play the 4th line role. I don’t want him at all. He is worse than Girgensons and comparable to Okposo. We need to stop acquiring garbage forwards. We can trade current defensemen and defense prospects for decent forwards. 

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29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree.  He was being used in a 3 RW role and that isn't what he is at this point.  However, I think he'd do well in a 4th line energy/physical role at this point in his career.  Signing Simmonds is contingent on KO being bought out.  Otherwise the question is moot.  I don't think Maroon, who Yerdon suggested as a Girgensons replacement is any better at this point then Simmonds.  

 

 

I realize this is based on a compliance buyout.

That said, based on what I saw in a Sabres uniform, I would much rather have Kyle Okposo on the ice than Wayne Simmonds.

Kyle looked like a good bottom six forward most of the time last year. Wayne just looked done.

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1 hour ago, Eleven said:

 

I guess he didn't look quite as bad to me as he did to you two!

Assuming Jason stays, I think it's highly likely we end up keeping Wayne. So you're giving me something to hope for if that happens. 

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4 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I would love to buy out KO, and I think it's reasonably likely that the NHL and the PA agree on some kind of compliance buyout arrangement.

I would also love to sign Johnson, but he'll have plenty of suitors.  He's probably not coming here, and definitely not on a cheapo 2-year deal.

I think Larsson will choose to leave as he is probably tired of losing.

I do not want Simmonds back.  He's done like dinner.

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5 hours ago, nfreeman said:

I would love to buy out KO, and I think it's reasonably likely that the NHL and the PA agree on some kind of compliance buyout arrangement.

I would also love to sign Johnson, but he'll have plenty of suitors.  He's probably not coming here, and definitely not on a cheapo 2-year deal.

I think Larsson will choose to leave as he is probably tired of losing.

I do not want Simmonds back.  He's done like dinner.

I love comments like these.  "He's never coming here" "He'll never take such a cheap contract" "He'll have tons of suitors."  Based on what? Because Buffalo?  These are frankly tired cliches at this point.  

Johnson will be 30 this July.  He isn't getting a long-term deal from anyone.  His PT has decreased each of last 4 seasons, from 18:40 to 14:33 per game.  He had his worst season of his career with 31 pts in 65 games.  His number of total faceoffs has also decreased for the last 4 years from 1100 down 350.  I'm sorry but no one is throwing big $ or big term at such a player.  Johnson's numbers this past season are similar to FAs Galchenyuk, Soderberg, Craig Smith, Mikael Granlund, Chris Tierney, Fast, and Namestnikov.  That's a crowded group of similar free agents.

With a buy out he'll receive approx 1.75 mill for the next 8 years.  He can afford to look for the best situation to try to reestablish himself as a top 6 forward.  We offer such an opportunity.

People here made similar comments last summer about whether or not someone like Mojo would come here.  He was coming off a similar season but an excellent playoffs and was a year younger.  All he got was a two year deal (at 4.95).  This time however, because of the cap pressures, I believe the $ will be smaller for middle of the road UFAs.  

 

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If there was no realistic, practical plan to get a 2C or, at the very least, 3 real NHL C's behind Eichel, then what he said is immaterial.  No Cozens, Mittlestadt, or minor leaguers from last year should be expected on the big club.  No reclamation projects of other teams' discards who get written in as NHL centres.  No guys "who [can play|have played] centre before" are placed at centre.  Enough garbage.

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8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Honestly, I'm kind of hoping for cap agreement between the NHL and the PA with a buyout.  I'm buying out KO, hopefully signing Tyler Johnson (if TB buys him out) and then re-signing Simmonds and Larsson for the 4th line

VO Jack Reinhart

Skinner Johnson Toffoli

MoJo Cozens/Mitts Kahun

Asplund/Lazar Larsson Simmonds.

I like that forward group.  

 

 

I think this is still not good enough in the middle.  I don’t think Mitts is a good enough  3C for a playoff team, and I would not bet on Cozens either.   I think that today Girgs is better than Simmonds, the only reason I do nit sign Girgs is to get rid of as many traces of losing as I can.  

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