Non Sabres Deadline Trades/Rumors

[dudacek]

I think what has been missed in the furor of ROR winning the cup is that Botts has so for subscribed to the theory of trading away players he doesn’t want for liquid assets and using liquid assets to acquire players he does want, with cap space being an asset he is very conscious of.

Using the four “big” trades above, all the picks and player scraps have been almost superfluous.

It’s O’Reilly, Kane, Guhle for Skinner, Montour, Thompson

And in the process, he’s added extra 1st and $20 million in cap space that he will probably cash in over the next week or two.

I still have questions about his judgement of talent, but he is clearly a smart guy who is playing the long game and he clearly has a plan. I’m really interested to see how he executes it into the summer and beyond.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

I don't think this would be enough. Ristolainen for Ehlers, but I don't think a prospect is enough to get Lowry who they value pretty highly in Winnipeg, particularly with their lack of quality C depth. 

You'd take a deck of NHL-logo playing cards in return if it meant we were dumping Bogo. 

I think you mean me.  I’d love to dump Bogo for a deck of cards and a set of Sabres poker chips.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I think you mean me.  I’d love to dump Bogo for a deck of cards and a set of Sabres poker chips.

Well you too, but True has a bunker so I assumed it'd fit for him as well. 

[TrueBlueGED]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think what has been missed in the furor of ROR winning the cup is that Botts has so for subscribed to the theory of trading away players he doesn’t want for liquid assets and using liquid assets to acquire players he does want, with cap space being an asset he is very conscious of.

Using the four “big” trades above, all the picks and player scraps have been almost superfluous.

It’s O’Reilly, Kane, Guhle for Skinner, Montour, Thompson

And in the process, he’s added extra 1st and $20 million in cap space that he will probably cash in over the next week or two.

I still have questions about his judgement of talent, but he is clearly a smart guy who is playing the long game and he clearly has a plan. I’m really interested to see how he executes it into the summer and beyond.

I don't think it's clear at all that this is his plan. It certainly might be, but I don't think it's so obviously the case that we can rule out him being a rookie GM out of his depth and making a series of independent moves. After all, let's not forget about a quarter of that cap space was acquired by accident when Berglund walked away. 

Edited June 18, 2019 by TrueBlueGED

[Thorny]

21 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think what has been missed in the furor of ROR winning the cup is that Botts has so for subscribed to the theory of trading away players he doesn’t want for liquid assets and using liquid assets to acquire players he does want, with cap space being an asset he is very conscious of.

Using the four “big” trades above, all the picks and player scraps have been almost superfluous.

It’s O’Reilly, Kane, Guhle for Skinner, Montour, Thompson

And in the process, he’s added extra 1st and $20 million in cap space that he will probably cash in over the next week or two.

I still have questions about his judgement of talent, but he is clearly a smart guy who is playing the long game and he clearly has a plan. I’m really interested to see how he executes it into the summer and beyond.

This was a massive off-season regardless, but Botterill saying we'd see roster-surgery this summer should mean plenty of moves. 

[Scottysabres]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

This was a massive off-season regardless, but Botterill saying we'd see roster-surgery this summer should mean plenty of moves. 

I am wondering if he's thought of offer sheeting.

[Derrico]

44 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I think what has been missed in the furor of ROR winning the cup is that Botts has so for subscribed to the theory of trading away players he doesn’t want for liquid assets and using liquid assets to acquire players he does want, with cap space being an asset he is very conscious of.

Using the four “big” trades above, all the picks and player scraps have been almost superfluous.

It’s O’Reilly, Kane, Guhle for Skinner, Montour, Thompson

And in the process, he’s added extra 1st and $20 million in cap space that he will probably cash in over the next week or two.

I still have questions about his judgement of talent, but he is clearly a smart guy who is playing the long game and he clearly has a plan. I’m really interested to see how he executes it into the summer and beyond.

I'm really looking forward to seeing what Botts and RK can accomplish together.  I have faith they are both smart men.  Hopefully they continue surrounding themselves with others who can aide in player evaluation.  I'm sure it's not just Botts opinion when discussing trades.  I'm sure he's speaking constantly with his pro and amateur scouting staff.

[dudacek]

Over the past few days...

FA RD Erik Karlsson signs contract that makes him 3rd highest player in hockey

Flyers acquire two veteran RD

RD Trouba subject of intense trade interest from several teams before essentially forcing a below-value trade to the Rangers.

Lebrun reports Tampa interest in Ristolainen intensifies after Karlsson deal

Also reports top remaining FA RD Tyler Myers looking for term at 6-7 million per.

Winnipeg GM says several balls in the air to replace Trouba

Seravelli says Ehlers offered to the Canes for one of their RD

Lebrun says Ristolainen a top target for teams that lost out on Trouba/Karlsson.

Dhaliwal says Canucks talking to the Sabres about a D-man.

 

Looks like there is a lot of interest in an asset Botterill is holding.

He hasn’t done well in setting up bidding wars before in the Kane and the ROR situations.

Will he be able to pull something off here? Should he?

[Derrico]

11 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Over the past few days...

FA RD Erik Karlsson signs contract that makes him 3rd highest player in hockey

Flyers acquire two veteran RD

RD Trouba subject of intense trade interest from several teams before essentially forcing a below-value trade to the Rangers.

Lebrun reports Tampa interest in Ristolainen intensifies after Karlsson deal

Also reports top remaining FA RD Tyler Myers looking for term at 6-7 million per.

Winnipeg GM says several balls in the air to replace Trouba

Seravelli says Ehlers offered to the Canes for one of their RD

Lebrun says Ristolainen a top target for teams that lost out on Trouba/Karlsson.

Dhaliwal says Canucks talking to the Sabres about a D-man.

 

Looks like there is a lot of interest in an asset Botterill is holding.

He hasn’t done well in setting up bidding wars before in the Kane and the ROR situations.

Will he be able to pull something off here? Should he?

So much this.  I know it’s the off-season optimism but botts is sitting with a real opportunity here.  This team has the core that should be good enough to compete.  I really like Risto but if Botts can pull off a big move I’ll be suckered back into thinking playoffs.  Have to get this trade right.  The difference between this trade and ROR is he doesn’t at all have to trade Risto.  Sounds like there is a lot of demand out there (for a 24 year old right hand d I’m not too surprised).  Maximize this return if you do want to love on.  Risto cap hit isn’t bad either.

[TrueBlueGED]

3 minutes ago, Derrico said:

So much this.  I know it’s the off-season optimism but botts is sitting with a real opportunity here.  This team has the core that should be good enough to compete.  I really like Risto but if Botts can pull off a big move I’ll be suckered back into thinking playoffs.  Have to get this trade right.  The difference between this trade and ROR is he doesn’t at all have to trade Risto.  Sounds like there is a lot of demand out there (for a 24 year old right hand d I’m not too surprised).  Maximize this return if you do want to love on.  Risto cap hit isn’t bad either.

You can't tell me to get over ROR and then go saying things like this! You're killing me! He didn't have to trade O'Reilly. Maybe he felt he did, but that's not the same thing as a pending UFA or RFA refusing to sign. He could have misjudged the need. 

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming. 

[Derrico]

10 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

You can't tell me to get over ROR and then go saying things like this! You're killing me! He didn't have to trade O'Reilly. Maybe he felt he did, but that's not the same thing as a pending UFA or RFA refusing to sign. He could have misjudged the need. 

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming. 

Last comment on ROR but I think it’s more than just plausible ownership told Botts to trade ROR.  Why wouldn’t he wait until after the bonus was paid to make a trade?  It was reported Carolina had a good offer but only if it was after the roster bonus.  Why would botts trade him right before?

[TrueBlueGED]

Just now, Derrico said:

Last comment on ROR but I think it’s more than just plausible ownership told Botts to trade ROR.  Why wouldn’t he wait until after the bonus was paid to make a trade?  It was reported Carolina had a good offer but only if it was after the roster bonus.  Why would botts trade him right before?

I have no problem believing ownership told him to trade him before the bonus. I have a significant problem with just assuming it was ownership's idea to trade him in the first place. I think it's at least equally likely that Botterill wanted to move him and only then did the Pegulas give him the bonus deadline. 

[jad1]

1 minute ago, Derrico said:

Last comment on ROR but I think it’s more than just plausible ownership told Botts to trade ROR.  Why wouldn’t he wait until after the bonus was paid to make a trade?  It was reported Carolina had a good offer but only if it was after the roster bonus.  Why would botts trade him right before?

If Terry 'drill a well' Pegula chose $7.5M over the opportunity to make this team better, then this franchise is doomed.

[Derrico]

9 minutes ago, jad1 said:

If Terry 'drill a well' Pegula chose $7.5M over the opportunity to make this team better, then this franchise is doomed.

Pride man.  You screw over a billionaire and you're done.  Terry has blown money on worse (ex-coaches).  You only do that out of spite and pride.  

10 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I have no problem believing ownership told him to trade him before the bonus. I have a significant problem with just assuming it was ownership's idea to trade him in the first place. I think it's at least equally likely that Botterill wanted to move him and only then did the Pegulas give him the bonus deadline. 

This is where we disagree I guess.

Edited June 18, 2019 by Derrico

[TrueBlueGED]

1 minute ago, Derrico said:

Pride man.  You screw over a billionaire and you're done.  Terry has blown money on worse (ex-coaches).  You only do that out of spite.  

This is where we disagree I guess.

Well then, you have a lot more faith in the acumen of a GM who has iced two consecutive terrible teams while actually trying to win. Putting aside the ROR trade as a whole, Botterill's record as GM suggests he's bad at his job. Maybe it's been a string of bad luck and circumstances out of his control, but I certainly don't see any reason to just trust him. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

32 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Well then, you have a lot more faith in the acumen of a GM who has iced two consecutive terrible teams while actually trying to win. Putting aside the ROR trade as a whole, Botterill's record as GM suggests he's bad at his job. Maybe it's been a string of bad luck and circumstances out of his control, but I certainly don't see any reason to just trust him. 

I think if you exclude the ROR trade then there is no doubt that Bottsie has done a very good job.  He has won, IMO, the 2 other big trades. 

He signed Skinner to a market value contact (oh, wait, that's right you are not a Skinner fan, if I recall correctly).  Drafting we shall see.

[Derrico]

@TrueBlueGED

So, the big trade goes down for ROR at the draft in 2015.  The Sabres then make the long term contract extension shortly after for $7.5 mil per season.  At the time that was a pretty big contract.  Yes he is worth it.  But remember only 3 years ago it was before McDavid changed the landscape of contracts.  The ROR deal was still fairly substantial at the time.  I'm sure Pegula's had him on their yaht etc.  They're active owners and I have no problem with that stuff but I'm sure there were conversations around ROR leading this young group of players.  Make no mistake they brought him in for two reasons.  Firstly because he is a good player that could help them win but there was also a substantial part of this move to have the veteran show the young guys the way.

Anyways, a few days later they sign his brother Cal to a two year $1.4 mil one way contract.  That is a gift from Pegula to his brother.  He played a total of 20 games for the Sabres and is exactly what everyone knew he was; a decent AHL player but nobody who is so sought after such that he should be given a one way deal.  He was never expected to contribute much so the one way deal was nothing more than a financial gift.

So what happens next?  Well, this thread touches the tip of the iceberg with hazings etc. and how Cal had a hand in ruining Nylander. 

Then ROR goes through all of the 'I'm so sad' pressers and finally ends last season with the famous 'loss of love for the game.'

Pegula (rich guy who usually gets what he wants) invested so much money in this players contract, intentionally overpaid for his brother and likely has had several discussions regarding the leadership this franchise needs.  There are more than whispers (dark is a reliable poster but have also heard from others as well) that ROR is a dick in the room.  I'm sure Pegula feels betrayed.  ROR is the opposite of what they needed in a leader (coming off all the TM/DB lack of communication crap) and his brother screws with the franchises previous first round pick.

It all comes back to why did the trade get made prior to the bonus?  There were rumors (yes only rumor) that Carolina, whom has a cash strapped owner, would want his GM to make a trade after the Sabres made the bonus payment.  

If there was more to get in a trade if Botts only had to wait one more day he obviously would.  Pegula has proven time again that he is willing to pay to make his team better (several ex coaches are still being paid, Leino and all the player buy outs included).  You only don't wait until the bonus payment if Pegula will not on principle.  Not saying it's right or wrong but ROR and his brother absolutely betrayed Pegula.  

Another discussion could be whether Botts tried hard enough to talk Pegula out of it but there is enough evidence here to lead me to believe Pegula said I'm not paying this guy (or his brother) another ***** dime.  Wish Botts got more but if that's how it went down I could almost understand it.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Derrico

[Derrico]

41 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Well then, you have a lot more faith in the acumen of a GM who has iced two consecutive terrible teams while actually trying to win. Putting aside the ROR trade as a whole, Botterill's record as GM suggests he's bad at his job. Maybe it's been a string of bad luck and circumstances out of his control, but I certainly don't see any reason to just trust him. 

This is a whole other discussion but I would strongly disagree with you again.  Take away the ROR trade and he's doing fine.  To me, the Skinner deal makes up for it.  If we're not in the playoffs or knocking next year then I'm with you.  I think our last couple drafts seem promising, the cap is somewhat manageable right now and core pieces are here today.  I think it was you that said when you have your franchise C and franchise D already you're never that far away.  I thought that was well put.  If Botts is competent he can do enough this summer to get us a playoff worthy roster by October.  

[Scottysabres]

So far we have the following rumors:

Buffalo kicked the tires on Zucker

Vancouver spoke to/speaking to Buffalo about D man, don't know if it's Bogo or Risto

Is this it? Is this what we've heard so far in the past week or so?

[North Buffalo]

1 minute ago, Scottysabres said:

So far we have the following rumors:

Buffalo kicked the tires on Zucker

Vancouver spoke to/speaking to Buffalo about D man, don't know if it's Bogo or Risto

Is this it? Is this what we've heard so far in the past week or so?

Something about Tampa too

[Derrico]

My bad.  I posted the last two in the wrong thread.  Anyway mods could move to ROR trade sucked thread?  Sorry about that.

[Scottysabres]

2 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

Something about Tampa too

I thought the Tampa thing was deadline? No?

[dudacek]

20 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

So far we have the following rumors:

Buffalo kicked the tires on Zucker

Vancouver spoke to/speaking to Buffalo about D man, don't know if it's Bogo or Risto

Is this it? Is this what we've heard so far in the past week or so?

We have inquired about Vesey and Tampa has continued interest in Ristolainen.

[Scottysabres]

16 minutes ago, dudacek said:

We have inquired about Vesey and Tampa has continued interest in Ristolainen.

That's right, Vesey, thank you.

[Brawndo]

Some Stats for Montour and Risto over the last 20:Games they played together as Sabres. 

Montour 20 GP 3 Goals 7 Assists including 1 PPG, 2 PPA

Risto 20 GP 0 Goals 5 Assists, 0 PPG, 4 PPA 

Montour’s Metrics we’re also the best of any Sabres Defenseman over those 20 Games as well 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Brawndo