Reinhart, sign him or trade him?

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, Thorny said:

But he's better than Skinner. So he needs to get more than Skinner. So.....

My head blew up

I will agree with you that Skinner is grossly overpaid. imo JBot should have made him a final offer at the deadline and if he didn't sign it he should have unloaded him for whatever picks he could get. Skinner held a pressured GM hostage and the team will regret this contract for years. 

[sweetlou]

Would you trade Reinhart and Johansson to Preds for Bonino and Arvidsson?

 

Bonino gives Sabres a solid center for one year that could play 2C or 3C.  He is better defensively, better at face offs, and more of mucker than a skilled guy than Johansson.

Arvidsson is a speed guy that could play 1rw or 2rw depending if Sabres acquire another top RW.   Much better contract than Reinhart would be signing.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, sweetlou said:

Would you trade Reinhart and Johansson to Preds for Bonino and Arvidsson?

 

Bonino gives Sabres a solid center for one year that could play 2C or 3C.  He is better defensively, better at face offs, and more of mucker than a skilled guy than Johansson.

Arvidsson is a speed guy that could play 1rw or 2rw depending if Sabres acquire another top RW.   Much better contract than Reinhart would be signing.

This is a terrible trade from the Sabres side of things. 

[Drag0nDan]

On 8/24/2020 at 2:15 AM, PerreaultForever said:

I will agree with you that Skinner is grossly overpaid. imo JBot should have made him a final offer at the deadline and if he didn't sign it he should have unloaded him for whatever picks he could get. Skinner held a pressured GM hostage and the team will regret this contract for years. 

Everyone wanted to sign him at the time.  It was taboo for me to say - I don't want a ton of term on this deal since he's 27.  The contract won't age well.  

What i didnt think was that he was going to just crater in year 1.  

[sweetlou]

57 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This is a terrible trade from the Sabres side of things. 

Funny thing is on other boards Preds fans don't like the trade from their side.

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

Everyone wanted to sign him at the time.  It was taboo for me to say - I don't want a ton of term on this deal since he's 27.  The contract won't age well.  

What i didnt think was that he was going to just crater in year 1.  

Not everyone. I mean everyone wanted him signed, but not to that kind of money. myself and many others have always said he's a 30 goal scorer not a 40 goal scorer and should eb paid as such. I mean he's way too high in the list of pay. Way too high. 

https://www.thestreet.com/lifestyle/sports/highest-paid-nhl-players-15079518

 

[Drag0nDan]

12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not everyone. I mean everyone wanted him signed, but not to that kind of money. myself and many others have always said he's a 30 goal scorer not a 40 goal scorer and should eb paid as such. I mean he's way too high in the list of pay. Way too high. 

https://www.thestreet.com/lifestyle/sports/highest-paid-nhl-players-15079518

 

yep - and for that reason I'm open to a reinhart trade.

When i say open i mean.. I'd be willing to move him for a more cost controlled player and maybe a prospect.  Fit is important since depending on free agency - this player would ideally slot with eichel.  I also mean - don't just trade him because we can't afford him.  We can.  Depends on the offer.

[Zamboni]

19 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

yep - and for that reason I'm open to a reinhart trade.

When i say open i mean.. I'd be willing to move him for a more cost controlled player and maybe a prospect.  Fit is important since depending on free agency - this player would ideally slot with eichel.  I also mean - don't just trade him because we can't afford him.  We can.  Depends on the offer.

For me, it would have to be a considerable overpayment to pry Reinhart off the Sabres. One in which the production is higher and he’s not on the downside of his career.
But, some fans would trade Sam for  Ryan Reaves cause like “he hits n fights n stuff”. ?

[sabremike]

Cap space isn't nearly as useful to have when you are on every single no trade/no move list in the entire league.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Cap space isn't nearly as useful to have when you are on every single no trade/no move list in the entire league.

The list of guys who have waived NTC clauses to come to Buffalo is long. Very long. 

[sabremike]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The list of guys who have waived NTC clauses to come to Buffalo is long. Very long. 

Other than the Skinner unicorn I can't think of any since we became the undisputed laughingstock of the entire sport. Remember how Berglund had to get sharked by Armstrong for him to get traded here? Simmonds, who is so washed up they may as well pulled Rayzor out from his announcing gig and used him instead.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, sabremike said:

Other than the Skinner unicorn I can't think of any since we became the undisputed laughingstock of the entire sport. Remember how Berglund had to get sharked by Armstrong for him to get traded here? Simmonds, who is so washed up they may as well pulled Rayzor out from his announcing gig and used him instead.

Frolic waived. 

Berglund wanted to stay in St Louis, had little to do with Buffalo. 

I don't feel like going back through every trade but there's probably a few more in recent memory. 

[PerreaultForever]

4 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

yep - and for that reason I'm open to a reinhart trade.

When i say open i mean.. I'd be willing to move him for a more cost controlled player and maybe a prospect.  Fit is important since depending on free agency - this player would ideally slot with eichel.  I also mean - don't just trade him because we can't afford him.  We can.  Depends on the offer.

I'm generally viewed as a Reinhart hater but that's pretty much my view. The current so called core hasn't worked, doesn't work and likely will never work so changing it can't be any worse and just might change us for the better. Overpaying Reinhart would be disastrous. We get better if we sign some FAs, move out pieces where we have extras, change the basic dynamic of the team. 

Of course though it depends on what you get back and if all the GMs out there think his point totals are inflated by playing with Jack it  won't be a good deal for us either so it's catch 22, lose either way. Certainly don't want to just dump him like the ROR deal unless of course we sign a big name like Taylor Hall instead.

[Eleven]

22 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Other than the Skinner unicorn I can't think of any since we became the undisputed laughingstock of the entire sport. Remember how Berglund had to get sharked by Armstrong for him to get traded here? Simmonds, who is so washed up they may as well pulled Rayzor out from his announcing gig and used him instead.

 

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Frolic waived. 

Berglund wanted to stay in St Louis, had little to do with Buffalo. 

I don't feel like going back through every trade but there's probably a few more in recent memory. 

Josh Gorges comes to mind.  And he refused to go to Toronto.  That was summer 2014, in the absolute nadir of Sabres hockey.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm generally viewed as a Reinhart hater but that's pretty much my view. The current so called core hasn't worked, doesn't work and likely will never work so changing it can't be any worse and just might change us for the better. Overpaying Reinhart would be disastrous. We get better if we sign some FAs, move out pieces where we have extras, change the basic dynamic of the team. 

Of course though it depends on what you get back and if all the GMs out there think his point totals are inflated by playing with Jack it  won't be a good deal for us either so it's catch 22, lose either way. Certainly don't want to just dump him like the ROR deal unless of course we sign a big name like Taylor Hall instead.

Question. 

You would be okay dumping Reinhart for a couple draft picks and a 3/4 liner (basically the ROR deal) if we signed Hall? 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Question. 

You would be okay dumping Reinhart for a couple draft picks and a 3/4 liner (basically the ROR deal) if we signed Hall? 

Depends on the details but if the picks are good ones and the roster player is something we need like a solid face off guy, or a superb penalty killer or two yes I would. If the 3/4 liner is a guy as good as say Coyle in Boston, definitely. 

Since Hall is just $ you'd be making a trade that goes Reinhart in exchange for Hall, picks/prospects, 3rd liner and that seems like an ok deal to me and we'd be a better team. You disagree?

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Depends on the details but if the picks are good ones and the roster player is something we need like a solid face off guy, or a superb penalty killer or two yes I would. If the 3/4 liner is a guy as good as say Coyle in Boston, definitely. 

Since Hall is just $ you'd be making a trade that goes Reinhart in exchange for Hall, picks/prospects, 3rd liner and that seems like an ok deal to me and we'd be a better team. You disagree?

We wouldn't have any top 6 RW's.

[Zamboni]

18 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

We wouldn't have any top 6 RW's.

But but but Reinhart would be gone. Consequences be damned! ?

[Huckleberry]

4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm generally viewed as a Reinhart hater but that's pretty much my view. The current so called core hasn't worked, doesn't work and likely will never work so changing it can't be any worse and just might change us for the better. Overpaying Reinhart would be disastrous. We get better if we sign some FAs, move out pieces where we have extras, change the basic dynamic of the team. 

Of course though it depends on what you get back and if all the GMs out there think his point totals are inflated by playing with Jack it  won't be a good deal for us either so it's catch 22, lose either way. Certainly don't want to just dump him like the ROR deal unless of course we sign a big name like Taylor Hall instead.

Oh I get this.   And if he wants more than  7 mill I would be inclined to trade him too.    But where are we going to find a player that fits with our number 1 store so much.  

He is 2/3 of our 1st line, meshes well with Eichel.  Unless we get something back and have a 'Malkin type center' coming back, I don't see how we can trade him.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Oh I get this.   And if he wants more than  7 mill I would be inclined to trade him too.    But where are we going to find a player that fits with our number 1 store so much.  

He is 2/3 of our 1st line, meshes well with Eichel.  Unless we get something back and have a 'Malkin type center' coming back, I don't see how we can trade him.

Being a one top line hockey team really doesn't work in today's NHL (probably never did really) and although Eichel at times can dominate any game our top line rarely did. Obviously what we really need is a true 2C and then you build two top lines. We are not a deep team so you trade a RW you're short there, you trade a LW you're short there and so on. There's not a lot of quality extra to go around so you have two options as I see it.

1) you continue to believe we have a lot of young talent that just needs to develop and fit together and you tweak inconsequential bits and pieces and stick with the "core."  This will probably be what they do, and it's worked oh so well so far hasn't it?

2) you sign the best free agents you can at any position to make the team different AND better and then you deal the surplus from any position that you end up with too many bodies. So you can sign anybody. Even a guy like Krug. We'd have too many D men yes, but UNLIKE JBOT you don't hold those bodies all season you move them before the season starts. So you sign a D man you move on that Risto and/or Montour trade or whoever (except Dahlin and Jokiharju). It takes some juggling and bold action, but status quo will mean yet another year of waiting and disappointment and eventually Jack asking to go. 

So yes, trade Reinhart rather than overpay him, but bring something good back in the trade and sign replacement(s). 

[Curt]

7 hours ago, sabremike said:

Other than the Skinner unicorn I can't think of any since we became the undisputed laughingstock of the entire sport. Remember how Berglund had to get sharked by Armstrong for him to get traded here? Simmonds, who is so washed up they may as well pulled Rayzor out from his announcing gig and used him instead.

Skinner, Frolik, Simmonds. That’s just the past 2 years

[dudacek]

37 minutes ago, Curt said:

Skinner, Frolik, Simmonds. That’s just the past 2 years

Pominville was another. Also signed relatively high profile UFAs in Okposo and Moulson and Johansson, also re-signed O'Reilly, who we acquired as a rental, so he wouldn't go to UFA.

It's amazing how many do come despite the ***** show we've been.

[Eleven]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Pominville was another. Also signed relatively high profile UFAs in Okposo and Moulson and Johansson, also re-signed O'Reilly, who we acquired as a rental, so he wouldn't go to UFA.

It's amazing how many do come despite the ***** show we've been.

So now that we have debunked the "players won't come to Buffalo" myth, I'm sure we'll never see it again.

[Thorny]

On 8/25/2020 at 7:07 AM, sweetlou said:

Would you trade Reinhart and Johansson to Preds for Bonino and Arvidsson?

 

Bonino gives Sabres a solid center for one year that could play 2C or 3C.  He is better defensively, better at face offs, and more of mucker than a skilled guy than Johansson.

Arvidsson is a speed guy that could play 1rw or 2rw depending if Sabres acquire another top RW.   Much better contract than Reinhart would be signing.

Isn’t Reinhart significantly better than Arvidsson? 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Isn’t Reinhart significantly better than Arvidsson? 

What?

Reinhart rides Jack's jetstream, is softer than Giza dream sheets, and is just a passenger most of the time.  If you trade him you'd be lucky to get a Vesey type and a 7th rd pick in 2030.

Note: extreme sarcasm