Around the NHL Summer 2019

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Do you really think the NHL will eliminate the sense of entitlement that some of these kids have?

I can see a deal whereby a first round CHL pick is eligible for the AHL, and in return, the teams get to retain NCAA rights for an extra year following graduation.

Two things the NHLPA doesn't care about:  CHL and NCAA.

2 minutes ago, shrader said:

They won't change a thing about this in the CBA.  College and american junior players already have further restrictions than major junior players.  They're not going to add even more restrictions on those players rights.  And this isn't quite the same as Vesey because Fox is still returning to college for one more year.  The Vesey situation played out after he had finished his senior season.  Unless Fox suddenly changes his mind and does leave school, I'm not really sure why the Rags would bother to do this now.

If Fox doesn't change his mind, the Rangers were idiots, because apparently they were going to get him in the summer of 2020 anyway.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just now, Eleven said:

I can see a deal whereby a first round CHL pick is eligible for the AHL, and in return, the teams get to retain NCAA rights for an extra year following graduation.

Two things the NHLPA doesn't care about:  CHL and NCAA.

Sure, they can make some kind of deal, but that won't end the entitlement sense some of the players have.  What you are proposing makes sense to the teams and the PA won't give a fiddler's fart either way, as you stated.  So, the teams will have an extra year to fool around and then the entitled player still won't sign.  No big deal, there, eh?

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Sure, they can make some kind of deal, but that won't end the entitlement sense some of the players have.  What you are proposing makes sense to the teams and the PA won't give a fiddler's fart either way, as you stated.  So, the teams will have an extra year to fool around and then the entitled player still won't sign.  No big deal, there, eh?

A kid just out of college isn't going to turn down a $100K/yr (AHL) or $1M/yr (NHL) job to wait a year.

[shrader]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

I can see a deal whereby a first round CHL pick is eligible for the AHL, and in return, the teams get to retain NCAA rights for an extra year following graduation.

Two things the NHLPA doesn't care about:  CHL and NCAA.

The CHL transfer deal is not changing, so you can forget about that first part.  As for the NCAA portion, what you're suggesting essentially forces them to sign with their drafting team or have to sit out of the league completely for one year.  That's a crazy restriction to place upon the player.  The NHLPA does not care about the CHL or NCAA, but they do care about the player and they are not going to sign onto a new rule that hands the leverage 100% to the teams.  It's not going to happen. 

As of now, every single player can become a free agent 4 years after becoming draft eligible.  Forcing a 5th year upon only a very small portion of players is not something either side is going to suggest.

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

 

If Fox doesn't change his mind, the Rangers were idiots, because apparently they were going to get him in the summer of 2020 anyway.

 

Yeah, this one I don't get at all.  Maybe Fox is leaving after all.  That's the only way the Rags get him on their depth chart next year.

[Brawndo]

31 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I can see a deal whereby a first round CHL pick is eligible for the AHL, and in return, the teams get to retain NCAA rights for an extra year following graduation.

Two things the NHLPA doesn't care about:  CHL and NCAA.

If Fox doesn't change his mind, the Rangers were idiots, because apparently they were going to get him in the summer of 2020 anyway.

I believe that Rangers and Fox already have plans for an ELC to be signed. 

[Brawndo]

 

If I was the NHL, I would suggest a Draft Year Plus one Rule that would allow 1st Round Draftees to be placed in the AHL at Age 19. 

[shrader]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

If I was the NHL, I would suggest a Draft Year Plus one Rule that would allow 1st Round Draftees to be placed in the AHL at Age 19. 

Why would the CHL agree to this?  Let's not forget that they have a key role all of this.  The whole thing just opens a major can of worms.  After a few years, fans would be complaining about their second round pick being stuck in juniors.  It becomes a never ending cycle of wanting to change the rules based off of a very small minority.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

Why would the CHL agree to this?  Let's not forget that they have a key role all of this.  The whole thing just opens a major can of worms.  After a few years, fans would be complaining about their second round pick being stuck in juniors.  It becomes a never ending cycle of wanting to change the rules based off of a very small minority.

The Current CHL-NHL Agreement expires June 30, 2020 and it seems that a least few million dollars flows from the NHL to CHL under the current agreement. If NHL Clubs believe that their 19 year old former first rounder is better off in the AHL then returning to CHL 15 months after they are drafted starting July 1st, 2020 there is not much the CHL can do without a new agreement in place. 

A new agreement could be include that any team that would like to take advantage of new arrangement would have to pay The CHL an AHL Transfer Fee (500,000 to One Million). 

In terms of second round and later picks, the old terms would remain in effect. 

Joe Velano, drafted 30th overall this year by Detroit was granted exceptional draft status as a 15 year old into the Q. In his draft year he had 48  points in 33 games, last year he had 104 points in 59 games. If he doesn’t make the Red Wings out of Camp next season What does he possibly have to prove in the CHL next year?

[Taro T]

44 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

The Current CHL-NHL Agreement expires June 30, 2020 and it seems that a least few million dollars flows from the NHL to CHL under the current agreement. If NHL Clubs believe that their 19 year old former first rounder is better off in the AHL then returning to CHL 15 months after they are drafted starting July 1st, 2020 there is not much the CHL can do without a new agreement in place. 

A new agreement could be include that any team that would like to take advantage of new arrangement would have to pay The CHL an AHL Transfer Fee (500,000 to One Million). 

In terms of second round and later picks, the old terms would remain in effect. 

Joe Velano, drafted 30th overall this year by Detroit was granted exceptional draft status as a 15 year old into the Q. In his draft year he had 48  points in 33 games, last year he had 104 points in 59 games. If he doesn’t make the Red Wings out of Camp next season What does he possibly have to prove in the CHL next year?

Ummm, how many Velano sweaters his Q team can sell? :unsure:

[shrader]

15 hours ago, Brawndo said:

The Current CHL-NHL Agreement expires June 30, 2020 and it seems that a least few million dollars flows from the NHL to CHL under the current agreement. If NHL Clubs believe that their 19 year old former first rounder is better off in the AHL then returning to CHL 15 months after they are drafted starting July 1st, 2020 there is not much the CHL can do without a new agreement in place. 

A new agreement could be include that any team that would like to take advantage of new arrangement would have to pay The CHL an AHL Transfer Fee (500,000 to One Million). 

In terms of second round and later picks, the old terms would remain in effect. 

Joe Velano, drafted 30th overall this year by Detroit was granted exceptional draft status as a 15 year old into the Q. In his draft year he had 48  points in 33 games, last year he had 104 points in 59 games. If he doesn’t make the Red Wings out of Camp next season What does he possibly have to prove in the CHL next year?

I have never been able to put much stock in the idea that they can no longer learn/gain anything at the junior level.  If a kid isn't ready for the NHL yet, I really don't see all that much of a distinction between growing in the AHL vs. in juniors.  If they can gain from one, they can gain from the other.  Short of the McDavids of the world who completely dominate the league, up until a kid is clearly the elite guy there, they still have plenty to gain.

My main concern with all of this though is that watering down the NHL's main feeder system is not good for the NHL or for the CHL.  Lesser players and lesser competition is going to hurt the development of those who do remain and it will snowball from there.

This whole thing is a case of if it's not broken, don't fix it.  These rules have been in place for ages and it's only a very recent rage among the fans that it should be changed.  And I think it's just that, completely a fan issue as opposed to an NHL issue.  I've seen nothing to suggest that they have any interest in changing it.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

I really don't see all that much of a distinction between growing in the AHL vs. in juniors. 

I don't know enough to have much of a take on this issue -- it's a complicated one. But I do disagree with this. Intuitively, there's a huge difference between playing as a player who is both elite and among the oldest in your league, and a playing as a player who's got great skill but is a young man in a grown ass man's league.

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

I have never been able to put much stock in the idea that they can no longer learn/gain anything at the junior level.  If a kid isn't ready for the NHL yet, I really don't see all that much of a distinction between growing in the AHL vs. in juniors.  If they can gain from one, they can gain from the other.  Short of the McDavids of the world who completely dominate the league, up until a kid is clearly the elite guy there, they still have plenty to gain.

My main concern with all of this though is that watering down the NHL's main feeder system is not good for the NHL or for the CHL.  Lesser players and lesser competition is going to hurt the development of those who do remain and it will snowball from there.

This whole thing is a case of if it's not broken, don't fix it.  These rules have been in place for ages and it's only a very recent rage among the fans that it should be changed.  And I think it's just that, completely a fan issue as opposed to an NHL issue.  I've seen nothing to suggest that they have any interest in changing it.

 

4 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I don't know enough to have much of a take on this issue -- it's a complicated one. But I do disagree with this. Intuitively, there's a huge difference between playing as a player who is both elite and among the oldest in your league, and a playing as a player who's got great skill but is a young man in a grown ass man's league.

Reinhart.

[shrader]

10 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I don't know enough to have much of a take on this issue -- it's a complicated one. But I do disagree with this. Intuitively, there's a huge difference between playing as a player who is both elite and among the oldest in your league, and a playing as a player who's got great skill but is a young man in a grown ass man's league.

 

6 minutes ago, Eleven said:

 

Reinhart.

We're at the point where we are trying to handle this on a case by case basis and you can't possibly do that with an all encompassing transfer agreement.  We're going to get to the point of allowing players to be sent to the AHL, but only if they were born during a full moon on a Tuesday. 

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, Eleven said:

Reinhart.

In fairness, I recall FGMTM talking about how Reinhart's marching orders during his final year in Juniors involved doing a lot of things that would probably result in him producing less for his team but doing more to ready himself for pro hockey. No idea what those things might have been. But whatever he did was borne out in his numbers -- he went from a 1.75PPG player in his draft year to more like a 1.35PPG player in that final year.

[Brawndo]

6 hours ago, shrader said:

I have never been able to put much stock in the idea that they can no longer learn/gain anything at the junior level.  If a kid isn't ready for the NHL yet, I really don't see all that much of a distinction between growing in the AHL vs. in juniors.  If they can gain from one, they can gain from the other.  Short of the McDavids of the world who completely dominate the league, up until a kid is clearly the elite guy there, they still have plenty to gain.

My main concern with all of this though is that watering down the NHL's main feeder system is not good for the NHL or for the CHL.  Lesser players and lesser competition is going to hurt the development of those who do remain and it will snowball from there.

This whole thing is a case of if it's not broken, don't fix it.  These rules have been in place for ages and it's only a very recent rage among the fans that it should be changed.  And I think it's just that, completely a fan issue as opposed to an NHL issue.  I've seen nothing to suggest that they have any interest in changing it.

 

5 hours ago, shrader said:

 

We're at the point where we are trying to handle this on a case by case basis and you can't possibly do that with an all encompassing transfer agreement.  We're going to get to the point of allowing players to be sent to the AHL, but only if they were born during a full moon on a Tuesday. 

 

5 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

I don't know enough to have much of a take on this issue -- it's a complicated one. But I do disagree with this. Intuitively, there's a huge difference between playing as a player who is both elite and among the oldest in your league, and a playing as a player who's got great skill but is a young man in a grown ass man's league.

There were 13, 13, and 11 players from the CHL taken in the first round of the NHL Draft over the past three years. 

15 Months after they are drafted, their respective clubs should be able to play them in the AHL if they determine that’s the best place for them.  Out of the 37 players this would actually affect very few, but that option should be available. 

Another option would be as soon as a player turns 20, even after the December 31th cutoff they are instantly eligible for the AHL. 

[Thorny]

4 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

In fairness, I recall FGMTM talking about how Reinhart's marching orders during his final year in Juniors involved doing a lot of things that would probably result in him producing less for his team but doing more to ready himself for pro hockey. No idea what those things might have been. But whatever he did was borne out in his numbers -- he went from a 1.75PPG player in his draft year to more like a 1.35PPG player in that final year.

It seemed to work well for him, too, as he had a good rookie season. 23 goals, 42 points. 

[Eleven]

On 5/1/2019 at 11:02 AM, shrader said:

 

We're at the point where we are trying to handle this on a case by case basis and you can't possibly do that with an all encompassing transfer agreement.  We're going to get to the point of allowing players to be sent to the AHL, but only if they were born during a full moon on a Tuesday. 

Just make it available for first-round picks and let the teams decide.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

LOL at the thread title edit.

[Brawndo]

 

[dudacek]

Of course they have.

Because in Harvard they teach you that the only place worth playing hockey in is Madison Square Garden.

[Brawndo]

Friedman mentioned on his 31 Thoughts Podcast that the Salary Cap will not rise as much as anticipated, due to many of the big market teams being knocked out of the playoffs early. 

[Brawndo]

[#freejame]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

Those poor folks over at MLE not being able to manipulate their talent for lesser pay...

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

5 hours ago, #freejame said:

Those poor folks over at MLE not being able to manipulate their talent for lesser pay...

All they need to do to get a deal done...is buy him some new jammies.

[Brawndo]

Looks like Holland will be accepting the Oilers GM Position